Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Maemo site, I'm interested in Maemo's sales numbers. We all can point at stuff that proves otherwise, but WP7 sales suck. Maemo 5 sales numbers are basically unknown. N8 isn't Maemo.

And by adding licensing and/or marketing into the qualifications of what we do and do not pay attention to... well, Nokia should have marketed more, Microsoft less, whatever... it didn't happen on Nokia's part, it happened on Microsoft's part.

Regardless. Maemo 5 wasn't that high of a seller. It was a better seller than Nokia anticipated, but it didn't do N8 or 5800 numbers - both aren't Maemo btw.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

That's gerbick's line. It may be the truth.

You probably remember that with earlier Maemo devices, Nokia claimed they wouldn't release sales figures because they were higher than expected, and Nokia didn't want competitors to know just how successful their Internet Tablet experiment was. If that's all true, then Nokia may have carried that policy along to cover the still slightly experimental, "step 4 of 5" N900.

Without actual and projected sales numbers though, we're left with nothing more than a few vague corporate PR pronouncements. Fun.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

So, parsing through your words and context, you're basically saying, 'I don't know' to both of my questions and instead trying to dazzle me with your hand movements and some other products and numbers. :P

Again, it sounds less than impressive and far more like an embarrassed slight of hand to claim, "It did so well, we won't tell you!" Step 4 of 5, indeed. More like, step 4 or 5 times all over your customers.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Maemo devices have had high return rates since the N800.

Allegations of willful harm are made out of ignorance. The simplest truths are that Nokia has been far too conservative for its own good, and in the case of internet tablets, did not really know what they had.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

No, that was not it. If you have paid a little attention, Nokias problem was Symbian. A Symbian that has never been totally renewed but in badly need of a total rewamp, and a Nokia that really didn't have software engineers to do it properly. The same problem with lack of software expertise was all too visible regarding Maemo/MeeGo.

In other words, Nokia just didn't have the expertise or knowhow to create the OS they wanted and needed. It is rather obvious, especially when looking at N97. Symbian^3 is OK and more capable than any other OS out there, but it takes way too long to develop for newer hardware, and is way too difficult to use for 3rd party app developers.

WP7 IS exactly what Nokia needs, there should be no doubt about it by now. The Symbian core is still good, but the WP7 core is just as good, also for lower end phones. And there is S40. But Nokia is in dire need of a light weight WP7 for low-middle end, and I guess 100s of MS engineers are working on that at the moment.

Have to add: The ONLY good thing that came out of Nokia during the last 5 years (software wise) was Qt. But Qt existed long before Nokia came into the picture. And to be honest, Qt is a tad on the heavy and slow side regarding UI for phones when compared with for instance Bada, Android and everything else. Qt works well on tablets, netbooks and so on, but needs major rework and much better and deeper integration for phones, but again that is where the problem is, no one at Nokia to do it properly.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

For us as users (and we should think more about this instead of trying to predict massive events for the market, Nokia's future and the state of mobile linux) the N950 could still deliver, depending on how excited we get about it.

The WeTab doesn't have a huge following, but the community around that device is very good. From what I understand (a lot of it is in German), the mood is mostly positive and accepting. The difference here of course is the almost 1:1 compatibility with everything else MeeGo, as it's a "real" MeeGo device.

I think most of us will be content in not having "the next iPhone", but rather something that we can be functional on and extend if we feel something's missing. I think everything depends on how well the N950 falls into this category and endless analysis on what happened and why can't tell us the truth until we see it.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

and like Elizabeth Taylor and Rock Hudson, the relationship between Nokia an Microsoft might look good on the surface, but we all know that there are reasons why it could never really work

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I guess that is the difference between Nokia, MS and you. Where Nokia and MS looks for and creates reasons for why this will work, everyone here are pessimistic and negative naysayers like the ones we find tucked away somewhere at the end of the longest corridors of bureaucracies.

I mean come on, MS+Nokia may not be your (ours) choice of phone, but they will do it great commercially and will be loved by the general public. That is what Nokia and MS is all about. Fringe devices such as the n900, and to some extent the communicator series - we can only hope that Nokia+MS is still in the mood to do these cool things as well.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

So after reading the 7 full pages of the behind the scene actions inside Nokia I feel that much of the story is still left out. I do not really believe the whole 3 MeeGo devices by 2014 bit and it was put together to intentionally mislead. This bit is supposedly saying that an OS that can be delivered to a phone cannot be placed on different set of hardware or chassis for that matter. Aside different hardware requiring specific drivers, the complete OS is a drop in and optimize operation. Look at WP7, the OS is available and designed for a certain spec, it becomes drop in at that point, so is Meego for the N900 as we speak it is getting to a stage where it can be dropped into the hardware. That is a total and utter lie, which says that the OS could not be put into more hardware fast enough, the issue is more akin to it not being ready on the initial release and with firmware updates the argument is made more moot. If I had to read into it, the firmware updates would require around 2014 to reach a state where it is OS complete, and MeeGo would have the requirements of being a fully functional smartphone OS.

This actually is more of a strategy shift which I think Elop was presented with and did not approve. The intent of MeeGo was to become the top smartphone series and Nokia would reduce the number of phones they would launch in this category. This was the plan under OPK, and I think Elop came to the conclusion that a more frequent release cycle is to Nokia's strength much like HTC does. Also MeeGo was not ready to be repackaged in a frequent hardware release cycle when it was not ready yet as an ecosystem, something WP7 offered alternatively.

So in essence, that part is very misleading because it is covering for the fact that the release cycle is what changed in strategy. Just this year, the rumors of two devices are already rampant, and so MeeGo can be repurposed to other hardware easily as that is part of why Maemo/ MeeGo came into existence. Nokia didn't feel like releasing 3-5 phones per year when the ecosystem backing it up was not ready nor was the OS able to bring more profitable channels to Nokia like the use of their mapping system or the ability to reach both the high and low ends of the value spectrum. If they can make 1 MeeGo device they can make more than that as well.

Creating the hardware is hard, I would suppose a small group within Nokia was tasked to create the OS to supposedly meant to save them while Symbian still had the majority of the mindshare ... something which is totally whack in any case. I would like Nokia to reimagine past winners with today's hardware and software. For example an N95 chassis but thinner, higher mp camera, 4inch screen, fast cpu, and MeeGo. The way hardware is going today as well, it is becoming simpler to interconnect I/O devices with specific data buses and specific small signal characteristics. 3 devices in the next 3 years is total baloney and does not do MeeGo any justice with this utter misleading fact, they could have made more if that was the strategy, but OPK's strategy was not to have a lot of consecutive releases. Lets not get it twisted.

With the above said, I now see WP7 as more calculated gamble with the best possible outcomes for Nokia. MeeGo is more a hail mary shot than WP7 is that is the reality today. If they launch a MeeGo device this year I think we will see a phone that is awesome, but still quite limited when it comes to an ecosystem. With the budget alotted, I hope they can build an ecosystem around it in the next 5 years while WP7 stems the losses and keeps Nokia afloat for long term challenges. I am excited to see ideas float both ways, from WP7 to MeeGo and opposite from MeeGo to WP7. Something like multi-service messaging phone integration as seen on Maemo/ MeeGo would be awesome on WP7.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Out of experience, Maemo isn't the easiest OS to put on other hardware. A lot of it is tied to certain behaviours of the hardware/facts and specifics, causing it to be difficult to port. The problem stems from that often there was one OS per device, not one OS for multiple devices (think 770, N8x0, N900 ..). The worry I have is that for Maemo6/Harmattan, the same has happened.

What's obvious is that there wasn't enough contribution to meego.com from Nokia's side (judging by the sentiments by Intel people on the mailing lists), which may have blocked their ability to switch quickly enough, causing the results they're talking about. MeeGo.com is very portable to a lot of different hardware, but it may be that they hadn't contributed enough/trained enough people to be able to switch without big issue. Reasons for that could have been the intense focus on Harmattan?

I think that's where the calculation came from - which makes sense.

I think the WP7 move was correct. Especially since it gives some kind of breathing space to move on to the next step, the new disruptions. It's not like Linux is dead inside Nokia, or going to be dead.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I can't say I'm too surprised by that. The N800 was the last good Maemo device, as far as I can tell. Adding a slide-out keyboard just adds more weight and more moving parts. Also, I really, really thing that it was a BIG mistake to move away from having a D-pad. Once again--they could have been far ahead of everyone else about advantageous things such as TABLES and even d-pads on tablets for gaming and/or digital movements like in menus. Ugh. Nokia--what a goddam shame. They were sitting on a goldmine and decided to just piss it all away.

Allegations of willful harm are made out of evident history and statements that can be summarized as simply as "WONTFIX". They didn't literally step all over their customers, but it was just as bad that they ignored customer demands, ignored customer concerns, provided incredibly frustrating responses or refused to respond at all, provided little to NO support (hardware/repair/etc), provided little presence (virtually NONE in North America) and terrible face-to-face experiences with Nokia sales/support/etc when they WERE available, ...I mean, I could go on. :P In the metaphorical sense, yes... they stepped all over their customers and it's showing lately. (People aren't exactly flocking back to a Nokia after the experience of owning one, despite even well-made devices.)

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Others have also stated that the move to qt was something that stole a lot of time that could have been spent on optimising harmattan and refining the UI.
without additional resourcing, this almost guarantees a failure to meet deadlines for getting a product out to market.

the lack of clarity (at least for the public) about where Harmattan fitted in to Nokia's Meego strategy seems to have fuelled a reluctance to push forward on the Meego front. It seems easy, at first glance, to assume now that Nokia were pushing Harmattan as their "Meego" phone. It may have been "step 5 of 5" in the Maemo cycle, but with Meego API's t would seem to also be step 1 of x in the move ot full Meego

It would be interesting to see if Nokia's decision to drop the Meego push coincided with the first rumblings from within Meego and the TSG that they would not accept Nokia using the "Meego" tag on the Harmattan Device.

opting for WM (with a green light to customise) would be the only obvious external os choice to allow Nokia to not become like the many other hardware clones, err manufacturers on the market

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

heh*cough*... like I said elsewhere... Yah. Those Microsoft Windows Phone 7 devices are just FLYING off the shelf. And Nokia is doing faaaantasticly bad. Putting two bad tastes that go worse together. Not only is it not our choice of phone here on this forum, but they're both proving that they're increasingly less successful commercially. The general public doesn't seem to be impressed with either of these companies right now.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You stupid woman ;) I mean seriously, how ignorant is it possible to become? It works like this, it is not what is right now, it is what will be. Like two cars, one with a fantastic, reliable and powerful yet immature engine, but a chassis that falls apart (all existing WP7 phones). The other car has a perfect chassis, high quality, never breaks, but with an obsolete engine that really isn't fit for todays tasks compared with the competition.

When you blend those two cars, it is for the purpose of having an excellent engine in an excellent chassis. Shouldn't be so difficult to grasp should it? Will MS and Nokia make it work? Well, they try hard to, and have no other way to the future, this is their shot. I believe they will make it, not because I love Nokia or MS, but because it is a very good strategy, and they need this to survive.

It will also be a real alternative to iPhone and Android.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Take a look a Nokia's new blended car:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rX0DO9cng-...0/TheHomer.jpg

:D

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Exactly what I meant :)

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

What??

WP7 is already a commercial failure, and already hated by the general public.

This years before the first Nokia WP7 phone release.

If Nokia wanted a phone that's 'loved by the general public', they would have gone with Android.

What Nokia really wanted was billions of dollars in bonuses from Microsoft for the Nokia board members.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Jane, you ignorant slut. I see that you are confused--you clearly gave that impression immediately with your opening. Given your profoundly confused state, I can now understand how you might make the argument you made, and overlook the other obvious possibility you posed: When you blend those two same cars, it might be for the purpose of having an excellent engine in an excellent chassis, but through the miracle of Microsoft's and Nokia's amazing choices over the last few years, we could easily end up with the unimpressive, unwanted engine and a chassis that in fact might still fall apart--and worse, it might even be a throwback to big, clunky chassis that only your grandfather might appreciate, complete with fins, circular brake lights and a dark cloud that follows it everywhere because it's not nearly as energy efficient and innovative an engine and chassis as everyone else, who has gone on and evolved the whole market instead of playing catch-up like Microsoft+Nokia. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekend_Update

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Also sex. Nokia wanted sex with Microsoft. Big, fat corporate sex. Money is just their way of fertilizing their future Kin.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Reality check. MS rules the PC world. We may dislike it as much as we want, they still rule. Nokia still rules the mobile market, they sell more phones than anyone else. Nokia and MS is the two most influential companies in PC/mobile. Now they join forces for a new mobile ecosystem and devices and OS. It is not like they will fail because some fanboy nobrain zealots wants them to, or dislike them or hope or pray or whatever.

They will fail if they fail to make good devices and fail to make a good ecosystem, they will succeed if the achieve making good devices and ecosystem. It is that simple. Judging by the state of iOS and Android, MS+Nokia have to make really really piss poor devices and ecosystem to fail. They won't. Already there are 18000 apps, half a year before any Nokia-WP7 is out, they have mail, navigation, search, everything, it is "just" a matter of putting the pieces together.

People generally don't care what OS their phones are running, but they know that Nokia will be totally renewed very soon, obviously they hesitate purchasing a Nokia now. People now that a real Windows phone will be a Nokia, obviously they hesitate purchasing a Samsung or HTC, and both of them have better Android devices in any case.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I'm not a big fan of M$ but if history is any indication, Microsoft has the money and the staying power to make a run for the top. Look at the XBox 360, doing pretty well from what I can see.

WP7 may not be a mobile OS marketshare leader but I would not count out the desktop OS marketshare leader. "IF" (and an big IF at that) they get their act together as they build out the consumer OS ecosystem, with Nokia's hardware they could be a strong player.

Look at what Apple has already talked about regarding Lion and what MS has been talking about WP8. The battle is much bigger than a few mobile phones as we enter a post-PC era.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I think that perceptions have changed since Apple and Google transformed the mobile market. I think that Nokia and Microsoft are seen as just other competitors in a big marketplace. Computers, phones and tablets are just commodities, more like TVs than they once were. If I had to pick the one predominant TV maker, I wouldn't know who to pick.

In the US, I don't think Nokia rules anything.

If anyone "rules" the mobile market, I would say Apple does. Apple can change the course of history and has done so repeatedly. No other company is doing that, even that old tiger Microsoft has become just another aging, obese *****cat. Speculation is that Bill Gates is returning because it badly needs a brain transplant...

P.S. In honor of this site's censoring software, Here are the lyrics of a pop song that contains the word that I used above.


"What's New *****cat"

What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
I've got flowers
And lots of hours
To spend with you.
So go and powder your cute little *****cat nose!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat nose!
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
You're so thrilling
And I'm so willing
To care for you.
So go and make up your cute little *****cat face!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat face!
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
You're delicious
And if my wishes
Can all come true
I'll soon be kissing your sweet little *****cat lips!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat lips!
You and your *****cat eyes!
You and your *****cat nose!

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You are right, but wrong. Mobile phones have been commodities for a long time already and Nokia have been the preferred brand (world wide) because of quality and value. Apple has in some ways taken over at the top, but in other ways Android devices have. Nokia doesn't offer the same value right now, but with MS they will. As I said earlier, a revolution is not needed, only something that is perceived as equal value as the others regarding HW, OS and ecosystem.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Aside from neglecting MeeGo, choosing WP7 and not Android, etc,
this seemingly reputable source claims that and explains why "Stephen Elop is deluded" (warning, monstrous blog entry). And also in another blog entry why Elop's February-anouncement (instead of e.g. Q4 2011) to drop Symbian cost Nokia >14 Billion USD.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

define "Apple has in some ways taken over at the top" please?

Taken over what? they have done nothing more than prove that you can copy other manufacturers technology (from years ago) and convince people, through clever marketing, that it's "new".
the only thing apple has managed to do (and wit great success) is make a feature phone extremely usable, and thus, make people believe that it's "smart".

the assumption that because someone is a leader in the desktop market, they will by default be a leader in the mobile market , is a fallacy.
People lke to think that Apple is leader in the mobile world, even Elop does, but, while their prodicts in the desktop market are great, they don't have a massive market share.
And just because microsoft has market share in the Desktop world, means in no way that they will, by default, make in the mobile arena. They've been trying, and failing for 15 years.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

If you're speaking about simple cellphones and not just smartphones, yes but for smartphones they are but a small fraction of the market.

I think as a single manufacturer they definitely sit at the top, but combined Android has more marketshare.

And how many companies does it take to overcome Apple?

I believe Apple is also more profitable than Nokia in mobile phones, and as such is also more profitable than all Android phones combined.

It's not the definitive view of what makes a market leader but is important to understand where Nokia is relative to Apple. Nokia's relevance in the marketplace doesn't seem to be growing.

And right now they have a long way to go.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You know... I don't think it's no longer about the desktop. Mobile browsers outnumber desktops for the first time... and it's never going to switch back.

So what Microsoft, Apple, Nokia and (to a lesser degree) The Linux Foundation are vying for is that our phones and our tablets to be how they serve up the internet and their services.

Nokia was already there before the others. They let Google, Apple and now Microsoft catch up when they could have been years ahead of them. But I'd have to say that Microsoft is now looking at how they will go from Windows 7 (desktop) to ARM based Windows 8 (tablet and non-legacy x86 OS) and incorporate your phone into the mix - WP7 (current) and the upcoming WP8.

That's where they've got their sights set. And honestly... that fight is just starting. With the recent Windows 8 on ARM and how non-legacy it's gonna be... I'm looking at how that the WP7 decision might not be as bad for the typical consumer that's been looking for a certain level of convergence.

It's the admins and gurus that are gravitating to MeeGo, that had gravitated to Maemo. There's no answer for us in these conversations that's longterm yet. Harmattan is short term, puts a shiny device in our pocket for a year. MeeGo is a longer term project that just doesn't seem to be ready.

And WP7, albeit a clean as hell UI and workflow, it's geared towards consumers that love FB, Twitter, and TXT messaging. Not for a guy that's gotta SSH into a server and has to edit some crontab or php.ini via Pico or Vi.

Let's see what happens. But the desktop is giving way to the mobile landscape quickly in my opinion.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I remember now why I stopped subscribing to his blog. He uses sheer volume to communicate his points and accuses of others interpreting facts based on what they want to see yet does the same himself.

The US provides no leadership in smartphones? So who is, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea?

He talks about Japan leading the US, yet in Japan Google / iOS dominate 95% of the smartphone marketshare (57% and 38% respectively). I like that he conveniently throws mixes smartphone and cellphone data using which ever is most convenient to him and ignores facts inconvenient to his argument.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I'm not going into the merits of Ahonen's blog, and I admit that I do know little about the Japanese market. One thing I know is that they use a particular definition to describe "smart-phones" as opposed to "advanced function mobile phones".

The smart-phone category is comprised by their definition as "mobile devices running iOs, Android, MS Windows Phone, RIM's OS, and Symbian S60" (which is not offered in Japan). As are a few others (Bada, Maemo, WebOS). So, these are mainly imports (they start to release Japanese Android based phones in relevant numbers now).

Advanced function phones are mainly "Made in Japan" and not counted as smartphones.

I am not clear in which functions "advanced function phones" differ from smart phones, as all functions available on smart phones are seemingly present in these advanced function phones. Some functions that have been used in Japan for years are not currently present in the U.S. (emoney, virtual wallet) or have been introduced in Japan years earlier than to the rest of the world.

Understanding how smart phones are defined it is no wonder that iOs and Android make up more than 90% of the Japanese smart phone market.

Unit wise there were about 5 Million Android devices and more than 3 Million IOS devices sold in Japan in the latest fiscal year (12 months ending 3/31/2011), on average a little more than 2 million smart phones per quarter. That does not sound that much for a highly industrialized country like Japan with a population a little less than 130 million. There must be a huge number of advanced function phones be sold.

I'd appreciate if someone more knowledgeable can explain the distinction between smart phone and advanced function phone in Japan, or has numbers showing units sold of advanced function phones.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

And neither Nokia nor Microsoft are being preferred more and more every day--WORLDWIDE. The fact remains that they're BOTH falling behind. Now, they're just going to fall behind together.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Say what you will of Elop, but with him it marks the first time Nokia is making a decisive action and throwing down to compete. Everything done under OPK was stalling tactics.

Elop definately threw MeeGo under the bus, but remember that OPK was the one who stalled on Maemo and MeeGo for far too long. He gave it no sense of purpose, heck Maemo existed before Android I'm not sure if it did before iOS. Tablets, touch screens, the fastest processors of their time were all what Nokia had at the time pre iPhone. OPK did not have the balls to go forward with ground breaking concepts the competition were willing to bank their futures on.

I don't know if WP7 will work out but it does have the best chance for saving Nokia more so than MeeGo could. MeeGo would be a new player, and will arrive with very little fanfare believe me on this. A Nokia WP7 phone will get more publicity at places like Engadget rather than a MeeGo device. The OS provides Nokia the ability to roll out different chassis configurations with minimal effort and at a quicker pace. The competition on the WP7 platform don't have a full line of phones yet, nor do they have the focus on their WP7 devices. Also the markets in Europe, Asia, and Africa/ Middle East love the Nokia brand irrespective of the OS, only reason why people would endure the Symbian OS and it's updates to make it more touch friendly. Having a WP7 will be seen as a plus once they try it, something I recommend people bad mouthing WP7 do if they haven't tried it.

My opinion on WP7 after trying it is quite different from the day Elop made the announcement and I was fuming with anger. It is no Maemo and comparing them would be a disservice. I love Maemo, because it showcases where exactly Smartphone OS's will be in the next decade, full Mobile Desktop OS's something that we are witnessing now as the Desktop OS's become more mobile and the Mobile OS's become more like a Desktop OS. Maemo was the right balance of power and efficiency, I could even picture it right now a Fremantle powered 10inch Slate. WP7 is much like the current player's wherein the environment is very controlled but the trade off is that you get access to services that encompass what Elop mentioned as an ecosystem. Maps, gaming, email/ calendar, messaging etc... are some of the examples of what you get access to. I bought a WP7 device to test around, developing is much more straightforward and Microsoft has done a way better job of communicating how to develop for the WP7 devices. Also the OS is smooth as hell, the UI is simple but gets important info to the user as quick as possible with minimal swiping. The virtual keyboard in my opinion is much better than the iPhones, the browser is actually decent, the Email client built in is really awesome, and the Calendar is actually very effective because of it's simplicity although I wish I could sync it to my Google calendar. The positive signs coming from Microsoft is their ability to make updates, not simple updates but MASSIVE updates like the upcoming Mango eventhough it has things the OS should of had from the beginning it is still impressive how MS has made over 500 improvements. WP7 is not perfect by all means, their are glaring weaknesses not addressed yet, and don't know if it will be addressed. These weaknesses in mind, I still would recommend the WP7 OS to friends and family because it packs a overall good OS.

MeeGo should not be canned although and WP7 should not be the argument for canning it. Nokia has to definitely still make MeeGo phones but I think it needs a purpose that guides it. Future disruptions is one thing, but that seems like it can be done in the lab and would never be seen as an end user product. Create a phone targeted to a market segment like Enterprise or something, and hopefully in the future leverage it's penetration in that segment to gain a broader appeal.

Elop had an oh sh*t moment because he came in and did a review. The result of the review did not jive with a strategy he had, so they recalculated the strategy to stem losses and regain momentum. People who are angry at him right now have let emotions get in the way. MeeGo wasn't going to save the free fall that OPK left Nokia in, and Symbian was the biggest anchor Nokia had hauling them down. Nokia was throwing money at Symbian and not seeing a return on it. Less people were buying Symbian phones, and Nokia's work force was laboring away at it taking away valuable man hours from other projects and costing the company in employing workers on the Symbian side.

The unusual part is he publicly announced Symbians end game, an unusual move. I think it was meant to deliver a message to shareholders, employees, and new partners (Microsoft). The tradeoff is that it created an uncertainty for Nokia and accelerated the demise of Symbian from consumer mindshare. Although it did deliver clarity to everyone else except the consumer. Employees know their eggs are in WP7's basket, shareholders know they have to hold on for dear life in the bumpy days ahead, and Microsoft knows the level of Nokias commitment to WP7. I think was a hard decision to publicly state that, but this is also insurance that shaky board of executives don't waver on whats to come. By driving a stake through Symbian's heart, and gimping the MeeGo efforts furthermore it hardens the resolve when you make it a do or die moment. The best part is that Elop knows how to communicate, and doesn't shy away from his decisions, I can't believe people would rather he remain tactful and not air some of Nokia's dirty laundry ... it has to be done to expunge years of employee frustration and political obstinence within Nokia. I want to hear that he scolded Nokia workers for not having the guts to try the competitors phones, nor having issue with Nokia not taking the risk to release unique ideas which remain in their vault. I like that he is ensuring product schedules remain intact, and communicating with the anyone who is willing to listen. I don't work for Nokia so I don't know the inner workings or the effectiveness of his leadership ... from my point of view looking in I think he is doing a much better job than OPK and time will tell if Nokia's WP7 gamble was right.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Many of the "advanced function phones" are running some variant of Symbian, or a Linux variant. All are highly customized for the handsets by the carrier, which are built to order for the carrier (and believe me, if you think jailbreaking sucks, fight one of those!)

Web browsers compliant with modern standards generally aren't. They definitely fill a niche in the market, but due to their lack of integration into the proprietary web networks (think AOL) their adoption isn't quite keeping pace. Though the end result will probably be the death of the proprietary networks.

The smartphone market is tiny. Also consider that the iPhone is on the smallest of the 3 major networks.

Adoption of smartphones is slow in Japan due greatly to the lack of OS integration with the various data and commerce services in Japan. It's only a matter of time though. If anything, the inflexibility of Apple and Microsoft's solutions will eventually hold them back, at least in Japan.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I think one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that everyone and their dog is going towards HTML5 these days, so maybe the ecosystems will indeed converge somehow:

http://forums.silverlight.net/forums...02/562113.aspx

Is a interesting read from the other side of the pond.

For the Qt PoV, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKums...layer_embedded is a interesting video..

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

Fair enough.

Of the 130 million maybe 115 million have a phone. Of that, a percentage uses dumb phones, some advanced and some use smartphones. If all 115 M buy new phones a year then smartphones is less than 10%. If less than 100% buy new phones a year then that percentage increases. How much? I don't know. I would not be surprised if Android / iOS continue to grow in marketshare at the expense of advanced funtion phones.

What you also have to understand is that when we're talking about global leadership I don't hear NTT Docomo or Softbank in any discussions regarding global smartphone / cellphone trends. They are huge in their market but I would not consider them global leaders in that sense. Look at the HD TV market. HDTV's were available outside the US long before but once the US got on it, then HD TV's really took off and has affected not just TV's but cameras, video streaming on the web and etc.

There is no question Japan is ahead in terms of adoption but setting and influencing global trends, Google / Apple I think are much more of a leader globally than Japan.

You also have to consider US infrastructure costs which is much greater than most other countries. It's easier for smaller countries like Japan / Korea to implement faster DSL / fiber / wireless / HDTV technologies but in the US which is so large geographically it is considerably more difficult. When the US adopts something though they have the opportunity to really influence global markets in ways that other countries do not. Leadership is more than who was first.

For example, where's the LG Chocolate? Anyone know what OS they use? What about their app store?

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

wow, some of that really bothered me too.
Still not all of what he said is completely out of thin air.
That Elop must have been hired to kill Symbian or that the way and time WP7 was anounced wasn't at all beneficial for Nokia.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

I'm afraid I can't do that, but the definition of a smartphone is not universal. Everybody has one of his own.
My requirement of a smartphone would be: web browser not worse than first iphone, 3G or better, wifi, touchscreen, installable applications.
But people who talk about "smartphones" usually don't give their definitions. Hence a lot of nonsense is around.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

How's this for a conspiracy theory:

1. MS encourages Nokia to hire Elop.
2. Elop says Nokia is a "dead man walking" company. Elop announces WM7 adoption. Elop kills existing Nokia development, thus there's no way to backtrack. Stock drops.
3. Nokia announces poor sales. Stock drops.
4. Finnish investments are probably heavily in Nokia stock.
5. Nokia releases WM7 phones to poor sales. Stock drops.
6. MS announces plans to purchase Nokia to help their partner out. Finnish government will approve to aid Finnish investors.
7. MS now has phone fab and world wide distribution for WM8 phones. Think of WM8 as Xbox 360, 2nd gen after the first gen fails.

-----

There's no sound rationale for Nokia to put all its eggs in one basket. Why couldn't have they dropped Symbian over time and added WM7 *and* Android phones to their portfolio? HTC must be much smaller than Nokia and they seem to be fine developing phones for two OS's... and with plenty of varied models to boot! The only thing I can think of that would make Nokia/Elop do something stupid like this is if MS promised "special privileges" if they didn't develop for Android.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

There was apparently a fair bit of money promised (though that's just my interpretation from reading and listening to the interviews, etc.)

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

You have to break some eggs to make an omelet. Ovi sounds like eggs. Ovi has been broken recently. Just not sure that this omelet is turning out very well.

Re: Elops oh s**t moment for Meego
 

While I'm a Maemo / MeeGo supporter and not a big fan of WP7 I can understand the logic of his decision. This was really the lesser of two evils.

The problem for Nokia was that there was no way their current strategy would have been successful in any way / shape / form.

Symbian - Let's say they hit all of their S^3 and S^4 schedules. The problem here is that they'd only catch up to iOS 3 and Android 2.x by what next year? The bigger issue is that Symbian is phone ONLY!!! The industry has shifted and a tablet / mobile device ecosystem (post-PC era). At best Symbian is a solid phone OS which would have been fine 2 years ago but isn't going to cut it in the future. Why dump resources into something that has a big future. I don't see Symbian moving to tablets in any scneario.

MeeGo - Obviously this has both phone / tablet capabilities, but when? Best schedules show end of this year and early next year for the first devices also. By this time next year Apple / Google will be well into their mixed phone / tablet strategy where Nokia would only just starting with version 1.x which is iffy however you want to look at it. And according to OP this is if they hold to schedule which may not be the case.

Whether they choose Android or Windows they will still have a difficult time competing with the Samsung / Asus / HTC / Motorola so neither would be a sure win.

Right now Apple and Google comfortably share smartphone mindshare. I think there is room for a third player but is there room for a fourth? If MeeGo is going to succeed it needs to beat Windows and I don't think in any of the most aggressive and optimistic scenarios did they see MeeGo getting marketshare from Windows in the next couple of years.

For Maemo / MeeGo to have been the primary OS of choice for Nokia, and to be number 3 they would have had to make that decision 2+ years ago when they had the money and margins to double down on a future platform. OPK didn't have the vision or the dictatorial power of a Steve Jobs to make difficult decisions like that so Elop has to pick up the pieces. The guy has a tough job and I don't envy the decisions he has to make.