Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Well I hope folks know that a couple of months after Nokia and Microsoft got together, Microsoft revised the standardized spec down from 1GHz to 800MHz, as well as they now allow both a dual core next gen Qualcomm and ST Ericsson chips. These are what Elop is talking about, concessions which Microsoft has made. This was made in a presentation at MIX11:

http://channel9.msdn.com/events/MIX/MIX11/DVC19

Also keep in mind that the current 1GHz will be the mid range devices by next year, the 800MHz is the low end segment, and the dual cores will serve the high end.

As for MeeGo not being able to scale as easily, their might be truth to it because with WP7 you obtain an OS that is optimized by MS for that SoC whereas MeeGo the OEM has to take care of that as well. Does that fault it although, probably not and he is most likely dumping on MeeGo for other reasons. The scale of the tie in with MS, and the amount they each are hedging on each other is probably what forced Elops hand. To get play in the maps service, I am sure MS said "no unless you drop Symbian and commit to us". This is what corporate negotiations are, you don't get anything for free and MeeGo is bashed because somewhere in the agreement it was a decision reached by both for doing business with each other. He will never publicly state this, that is why weak applesauce is coming from Elop regarding MeeGo. All agreements are forward looking, so consider his statements 2 or three years down. They would not hold true because by then MeeGo is more mature, the ecosystem is a year old, and engineers/ programmers are more comfortable with working on MeeGo on putting it on a variety of different hardware.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I'm not feeling that "concessions" vibe, unless you mean some kind of wholesale "come to the dark side" garbage. There isn't a sense here of any real form of concessions or deal-making going on. It appears to be a complete change of corporate personality, not a give-and-take. Even if you were right and he simply couldn't state those facts as such publicly, what he IS stating in public is repeatedly undercutting Nokia's and his own image and competency. What I'm saying is that I think he might be clinically stupid, based on public statements. :P

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

200mhz isn't much of a concession when pretty much all of Nokias current "flagship" devices (n8, E7, X7, E6) across a range of device segments all share a processor that is lower than that.

I don't see WP7 running on a low end device unless the ui is nothing more than a command prompt.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

So that's why everyone's wanting to beat it....

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Fixed that for you. :)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Clinically stupid? That is a bit of a hyperbole. He hasn't made comments favorable to MeeGo but nor has he axed MeeGo. He just doesn't publicly state what MeeGo and future disruptions mean in the grander scheme of ecosystem building going forward. Will MeeGo be marketed commercially or will it forever remain in an experimental lab as a prototyping OS within Nokia? This is what he needs to explain to this community who have invested a lot in Maemo and MeeGo. TMO is the pure definition of the Nokia base, and as of late none of us really feel good about Nokia's direction even I have come to terms with WP7 but then it still doesn't sit well with me ... the only reason I came to terms is that I tried WP7 and wasn't mortified by the experience even though I bricked my phone due to MS's stupid SD card choice and Dells lack of integrating a recovery path something I hope Nokia knocks sense into MS with. When the phone was working, it was quite well and I saw how Mango could really strengthen it.

Anyways I look now at MeeGo and what I have been seeing with MeeGo development. WP7 is something tangible, MeeGo is still a dream and concept just about to be realized. Nokia needs a clean break, Elop is seeing to it by cutting the anchors of Nokia, even if he didn't do anything today the status quo was not sustainable. Call him stupid, I see him publicly saying that Symbian is going as a sign of honesty and good communication. I think Elop is trying to fix a credibility deficit brought about by old Nokia insiders work ethics. I did not trust anything OPK and his old team said, as nothing they said has come to fruition, this guys says it and executes it ... he even held his ground at AllthingsD, this is a good leader even when you disagree with him you have to assume he is working with numbers you and I aren't privy to. Nokia can't afford to patch up a problem any more, the whole house has to be brought down to the foundations and be rebuilt from the ground up.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Why make such a creative analysis that ends in Elop being a stupid jerk no matter what? it is getting boring by now. Have you tried MeeGo for the N900? it is essentially in the exact same state as it was one year ago. MeeGo is a joke, and it never made any sense why Nokia went from Maemo to MeeGo.

What has happened is that Nokia wanted it all, but failed miserably when executing its plan. Either the plan was terrible, the ingredients were rotten or they simply couldn't execute it. My guess is a little bit of everything. Elop is merely the unfortunate fire fighter that came too late to rescue the house, but just in time to rescue the people and the safe.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

= EPIC FAIL

spoken like someone who neither follows the bug lists, tests daily builds, or has first hand experience of What (and Where) Meego is today.

this is the sort of cr*p that the likes of Stskeeps, Tswindell and others who actually contribute to the Meego project get sick of trying to correct.

We, as consumers, don't need the likes of Elop or MS to kill Meego. People like you will do it for them, with your misinformed forum posts

./set_ignore_to_yet_another_troll

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Spoiler: Elop is a major MS shareholder.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

..beaten it for you

http://michaeljacksonanimatedgifs.co...folio/mj10.gif

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

How did you find this out? ...or is this your best conspiracy theory at the moment? If the latter, I might just agree. :)

SHAMOEE! WHOOO!

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

He was the 7th largest MS investor and headed up the mobile division at MS before he took over at nokia. He has since claimed he is actively trying to sell the shares but there is no way of proving if he has.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

couple of interesting articles kevloral posted on another thread;
HERE

talks about the IP that MS could/has gained form the deal.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

you are spreding biggest l garbage ever. It has progressed sincue last year. you dont have a clue lwhat the **** you talking about.

And remember this is on a non official phone.

But no problem if you dislike go out and buy that stupid Microsoft garbage called WP7 crap phones and get happy instead of sitting in this forum spreading lies.

But dont forget this:

Cool stuff that will be implemented iin nextgen WP8 is for sure stealed from engineers working with Maemo Harmattan!

Cause this is always the way that ****ing Microsoft company works.

The never invent anything themselfs just ****ing ripoff company

An btw "to late to for Elop save Nokia" yyeah right! dont forget tha MrFlop was the one who killed Nokia that for sure!!! By spreeding FUD about symbian/Qt and Meego that is!!!

after february who tthe **** did beleive in the future of Qt. the rest of the team tried to clean up after MrFlop mess. But ofcourse they failed and now no one buys the new symbian phones even if they are ok.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Again, can you provide me with a link to where you found ANY of this out? I'm a receptive audience and I'm quit willing to believe you but you can't just say MORE things as if that backs up anything you said. I wanted to know where you found this out so that it can have some validity. Anything? Until you do, all I take from what you've said so far is that I want to think it's likely but not a true story.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Some information about that:

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/communi...ares-10021695/

http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia...s-nokia-2011-2

I don't see anything fishy in that, but make your own mind up about it.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Talk, talk, talk. If MeeGo is such a blast, then why does it look and feel (und run just as buggy and slow) as it did 1 year ago?. Bugs are fixed, features are added, so what? The point is (and this was/is Nokias night mare), it takes too long.

Contributions, working your *** off, long nights, no sleep - this means nothing. Only one thing count, and that is the end result. That is the cold hard truth, and if you can't live with it, that is not my problem.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

It is common knowledge. Elop has sold everything in MS and purchased Nokia shares instead (if that makes him even more braindead, that's another matter ;) )

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

There, fixed that for ya.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Actually, that is not the case. He is still the eighth biggest individual MS stockholder:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/company/...onal-ownership

Elop (Stephen A)
Shares: 130,026
Estimated Value of Shares: 3.18 M US$

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Don't reply in a way that makes you look foolish. As I clearly elaborated, I'm not seeking some nebulous anecdotal "common knowledge." I was seeking some reference so that if someone were to ask me about it, I can state incontestable evidence to prove said statements.

Thank you! That's PRECISELY the type of evidence I'm looking for. You, sir, are an asset to this forum.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Hmm, I see my pension fund got some largish interest in there as well, so keep on going MS :D

But:
http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia...s-nokia-2011-2

That is common knowledge. However, Finnish and EU law does not allow him to simply swap shares when he is/was so deep involved in both companies, there are legalities involved, and it take some time. (To be honest I thought it was done by now).

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

And you sir Dan Ramos the zealot, if you have lived in the Dark Ages, you would have felt right at home with your pessimistic religious doomsday view on everything you disagree slightly with.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Don't get me wrong I'm not picking on you, but aren't Elop an american and he's assuming duty as a CEO in a US listed company? How could Finnish and EU laws apply to him? Enlighten me please. ;)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

First of all he is Canadian, and corporate governance is immune to nationalism. All corporations have well ironed rules when it comes to execs changing jobs. It has nothing to do with country of origin.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Really, I didn't corporate governance is immune to nationalism. I'll do future research on that. Thanks.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

What if wp7 strategy fails?

Here’s what Elop said in an interview with CNBC’s Bill Griffeth:
So Elop does not have a Plan B, I hope thats just ceo babble, otherwise I'm worried about the future of nokia.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I think WP7 strategy failing is plan A.

Correct me if I'm wrong. :D

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Great. Here comes another stock drop...

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Of course it is. When you launch a new strategy, even one we here think is foolish, you don't advertise that you're prepared for failure (even if you are).

And there's never a file in a drawer marked "Plan B" anyway.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Microsoft and Nokia are both international companies with offices all over the world. And as had been mentioned, Elop is Canadian, not that it would change anything.

As I said, I really thought everything were sorted out by now, but by the looks of it, it hasn't. Maybe some US laws are kicking in as well, even Canadian. We have Finland, EU, USA, Canada, Nokia and Microsoft with all their regulations and laws, I am sure some lawyers are busy earning lots of money sorting this one out. :D

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Mario successfully avoids Windoze Phone 7:

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7...rioballmer.png

:)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I'm a bit surprised that the rest of the executives at Nokia even hired him on (or at least surprised they even let him talk about using Microsoft) given he still owns so much stock in what is/was a competitor.

So, asking for proof/evidence as a way to solidly confirm or to plausibly deny something stated as a fact, whether I want to agree with it or not, is now zealot behavior? I laughed. Hard. :)

It's a plan which has already proven itself a failure thus far. This is like watching someone drive full-speed off a cliff and fall to their death, while still shouting at onlookers with the absolute confidence that the road doesn't end at the cliff. No amount of confidence will make that reality happen on a whim where no bridge was ever even so much as planned much less funded and built.

If you want to argue that WP7 is that bridge, it's clearly a bridge that very few trust--judging from the outcome of sales--but Elop is perfectly willing to take that massive Nokia big-rig across, even through the bridge is shaking and creaking something ugly and scary. :)

I told you! The more this guy opens his mouth, the more he confirms my feeling that he might in fact be clinically stupid.

I'm genuinely surprised somebody didn't do this with chairs instead of WP7 phones. :) Nice find, btw!

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I didn't realize your last name was Gruberman. :D

At least I hope you were referencing that skit... :p

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Elop has nothing to do with NOKIAs trainwreck. Even Symbian E series were not performing as well as Blackberrys in the US. I loved E71, but boy did the software give me trouble syncing to my work server. They have always had issue with a software bugs that required to power something better than a penny phone. When the real companies got involved because of money, NOKIA weaknesses were exposed.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I'm glad somebody got the reference. :)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

...and then they paired with Microsoft. It can ONLY GET WORSE with MS and Eflop, is the point people are making, I think.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Nokia's key issue was it could no longer effectively develop software in-house, be it Symbian or maemo/meego. the lead times were becoming far too long and the end product was not polished enough.

what Elop has done is to out-source the software development for future (smart)phones to Microsoft. Whether that was the correct outfit and platform to trust will be made clear in time.

It could be argued that this process started before Elop when Nokia canned maemo and got into bed with Intel and the linux foundation to move forward with meego. although nokia was contributing still, the strategic direction etc was no longer nokias key concern, and they could get on with building phones. Maemo was probably 80% complete of a modern smartphone OS, but at a board level Nokia probably realised that they could never complete that last 20%, and so pushed most development and governance to someone else.

Nokia's decision to pull back from the meego frontline could be therefore good for meego development as it will not have to the nokia corporate anchor holding it back, so development should hopefully speed up.

For nokia, putting meego on a phone should be no more of an issue or risk than chucking WP* on it. Both OSes are bought in from external sources and if meego is up to the job then great.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Plan "B" is to make sure plan "A" works....
Gold.
We have a saying where I come from.
"Plan A goes out the window at H hour"
Elop killed off plan B by shelving the push to Meego and has given up the fallback plan by cutting symbian's throat and leaving it face down in a pool of blood.
Give him 10 points for commitment.