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- - Microsoft, your platform is on fire (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74318)

lohner

2011-06-27 00:37

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1039711)

Let`s come up with some facts:

- Elop is a former Microsoft employee. It is very well known what kind of brainwashing people get at Microsoft, so it is very obvious that Elop will not change his mind about the Nokia-WP7 strategy.
- It is also a very well known fact that Microsoft really hates Linux and would take any effort to destroy any open-source movement where ever possible. Thats also why Symbian is no longer Open Source.
- MeeGo, especially if it would have been released on the Intel/Atom platform, could become a big threat to the Windows Desktop. MeeGo (wich IS in fact Linux) would have reached a wide distribution throughout all user types (not only geeks), which would have caused companies to port their commercial software to linux, which would then also run on the Linux Desktop (if the Nokia MeeGo device was Atom as it was originally planned). This would eventually lead to gaining numbers of MeeGo desktops - directly attacking the Microsoft Windows desktop. Microsoft will not let this happen!
- Why pay the full price for a company, if you could get it for the half? Since Elop became CEO at Nokia, the Nokia shares lost more then 50% - all within a few month.
- Elop is still working against Nokia. Shares gained some value again a day after the N9 was presented to the world. Elop leaked the WP7-prototype video the other day and stated in a Finish newspaper that the N9 will definitely be the one and only MeeGo phone by Nokia, even though if it would become a success. In conclusion, Nokia shares started falling again.
- Nokia has already canceled contracts with many Linux support centers, e.g. the one in Nuernberg, Germany. This indicates that the N9 will never become available in Germany.
- Nokia has sourced out Software/Symbian developers to Accenture and sold the Qt-rights. Furthermore, the Nokia MeeGo development unit will be shut down in June 2012. It is very likely that Nokia was forced by contracts with the MeeGo alliance to produce at least a single working end user device.
Nokia has also sourced out the production of the first WP7-phones to an external company.
- Elop contracts is limited until 12/2012,
- I`m not sure if that is of any importance: Jorma Ollila will leave Nokia mid 2012.

These are the facts. In my opinion, a buyin by Microsoft is therefore becoming very likely and will rather happen even this year than next year:
- Nokia already got rid of uneccessary staff such like software developers and Qt-rights (which could have become subjected to an anti-trust investigation).
- the Nokia shares are on a level at which Microsoft could easily afford a buying in.
- In case of an anti-trust investigation, WP7-devices won`t be delayed since they are produced by an external company.
- Microsoft has announced tablets under their own brand. They desperately need a premium hardware producer such like Nokia to build these.
- I think it could be very well possible that Elop will seperate and outsource the S40-series to an external low-budget producer soon. In that case, Microsoft will get all they really need: a premium hardware producer, maps and communication data and loads of patents to fight Apple and the others.

Even if it was fact that Nokia launched internal investigations against Elop - that wouldn`t change anything. Balmer would rather buy Nokia today as letting them changing back to MeeGo/Linux tomorrow.

These are my thoughts and I have absolutely no idea how Nokia could be saved. If the Nokia shares would suddenly gain power and start rising, Microsoft would probably buy in instantly. Nokia is at a point now where they HAVE to obey Microsoft or die.

Brilliant analysis!

To further undergrid your point that it is really all Microsoft's dirty tactics to destroy a free software friendly Nokia, take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb_beDIaa1w
This was 4 years ago, when Microsoft "just began". Their fight against "us" is now at a whole new level...

By the way, I suspect that this was started way earlier than with Elop. There must have been some pressure on the Nokia board by Microsoft starting a long time ago to make this all happen.

ysss	2011-06-27 00:42

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Hi there.

I have so many questions for you.

But let's just start at point number one. Can you provide some backup to this 'fact': (links or urls are preferable)

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1039711)

It is very well known what kind of brainwashing people get at Microsoft, so it is very obvious that Elop will not change his mind about the Nokia-WP7 strategy.

Let alone your inference that higher-ups in MS also get 'brainwashed', even though Elop was there for relatively brief period.

lohner

2011-06-27 00:56

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1039722)

Hi there.

I have so many questions for you.

But let's just start at point number one. Can you provide some backup to this 'fact': (links or urls are preferable)

Let alone your inference that higher-ups in MS also get 'brainwashed', even though Elop was there for relatively brief period.

If I may try to answer this...

"brainwashed" I think means:

Being on a different business model than free software companies (like e.g. Google, altough this is not the perfect example, a better one would be Red Hat)
Having to sustain the business model to survive
Therefore having to fight free software, because it is the biggest threat to their existence (they make all their money with Windows and Office)
Read for example "The cathedral and the bazaar", search for Eben Moglen or Richard Stallman talks on Youtube if you like to dig into this deeper

Doesn't it seem logical, that under these conditions, every employee gets a different kind of world view than a free software hacker?

lohner

2011-06-27 01:13

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

I have found one link for the "All Microsoft profits come from Windows and Office" fact:
http://madhatter.ca/2011/02/17/micro...arter-numbers/

sjgadsby

2011-06-27 04:49

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1039711)

(if the Nokia MeeGo device was Atom as it was originally planned)

That's Ilmatar. Harmattan has targeted OMAP3 since Harmattan was Maemo 6.

Quote:

- Nokia has already canceled contracts with many Linux support centers, e.g. the one in Nuernberg, Germany. This indicates that the N9 will never become available in Germany.

You seem to be implying that Nokia won't sell a Linux-based device in a country unless they've established a special Linux support center there. Am I misunderstanding you?

Quote:

- Nokia has sourced out Software/Symbian developers to Accenture and sold the Qt-rights.

Nokia sold the commercial licensing rights, yes.

Quote:

Furthermore, the Nokia MeeGo development unit will be shut down in June 2012. It is very likely that Nokia was forced by contracts with the MeeGo alliance to produce at least a single working end user device.

I've not heard the phrase "MeeGo alliance" before. I like it. Very science fiction.

onethreealpha

2011-06-27 05:32

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Can anyone show me anywhere, where it is proven that Nokia had some kind of contract with Intel or any other group associated with Meego to release a Meego phone?
This keeps getting stated as fact but i'm yet to see anything to back it up. Would love to see something solid to support this as opposed to opinion and fud

gerbick

2011-06-27 05:46

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by onethreealpha (Post 1039793)

I think that people are getting "relationship" mixed up with contractual obligation. I don't recall seeing an official contract for them to release anything. It was just an alliance from my take.

However, 3rd party reports do say contractual obligation but don't exactly back it up.

onethreealpha

2011-06-27 06:42

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Aaah. The old "3rd party report"....
I took the unusual step of spending time exchanging emails with the editor of a web based consumer site in an attempt to correct some of inaccuracies in a piece they did about the N9 and Meego.
The basis for the "facts" they included were from 3rd party reports via Google.... nothing as substantial as press releases that actually came from Nokia....

ossipena

2011-06-27 06:59

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1038752)

There is lowest category, which is around 20-30e (you might have never seen such device). This is what sells on Africa and some of the Asia.

at the moment yes, but in the future? absolutely not. s40 etc is the most affordable way of getting internet among the people of Africa etc.

ossipena

2011-06-27 07:03

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugoz (Post 1039168)

So s40 is gonna be the new smartphone platform? That's interesting. One thing is for sure, there are a lot of things happening inside nokia we know nothing about.

actually there is a lot happening out of your sight, but still completely publically inside nokia.

http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Mic..._datasheet.pdf

Rugoz

2011-06-27 13:33

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

actually there is a lot happening out of your sight, but still completely publically inside nokia.

nokia life tools? that really old news.

the more I think about the wp7 decision the more I'm pissed about it. Wp7 is nowhere near a complete OS and lacks critical features. How much worse could meego be? Don't get it. Then look at the r&d nokia spends on Meego, its definitely not the world.

larux

2011-06-27 13:39

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

OMG and HA-HA. If Nokia drops MeeGo and stucks with WP7 it will be gigantic mistake.

I found these from Twitter just minute ago (in addition to Engadget praising etc)

- Cult of Mac (yeah, cult of mac): http://www.cultofmac.com/things-to-a...opinion/102107 (read commentary also)

- http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2959-...-is-all-i-need

And finally: Luovanto tweeted that 38% of visitors at swipe.nokia.com comes from United States.

Elop: It's o'**** moment NOW! OH ****! OH ****! and 10000x OMG.:D:D:D

momcilo

2011-06-27 14:12

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 1039784)

You seem to be implying that Nokia won't sell a Linux-based device in a country unless they've established a special Linux support center there. Am I misunderstanding you?

The choice of countries is interesting. Some of the countries is quite expected either because of population or average GDP:
- China (population)
- Vietnam (population)
- Russia (population)
- Australia
- Austria
- Finland
- Sweden
- Switzerland
- Portugal
- Slovenia

The surprising thing is that some of the countries were missed out:
- US
- UK
- France
- Germany
- ...

But there are some unusual countries where average monthly income is well bellow the suspected price tag:
- Romania
- Bulgaria
- Serbia
- Croatia
- ...

Except for Romania (~20m), all of the later are countries are really small markets. Combined with the low average income this makes it poor place to promote high-price-tag devices. Even today the S40 is actually ruling those markets.

Bare in mind that in most of these countries support is really rudimentary. My guess is that legal conditions allow Nokia to experiment there with less of legal liabilities.

What do you make of this country list?

momcilo

2011-06-27 14:14

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by larux (Post 1039997)

And finally: Luovanto tweeted that 38% of visitors at swipe.nokia.com comes from United States.

You mean Engadget?

patlak

2011-06-27 15:14

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1040021)

But there are some unusual countries where average monthly income is well bellow the suspected price tag:
- Romania
- Bulgaria
- Serbia
- Croatia
- ...

You have no idea how many high end phones are sold in these countries. People are not gonna buy bread to eat, but buy Iphone 4, E7, Galaxy S2. Lots of people will buy the N9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1040021)

The surprising thing is that some of the countries were missed out:
- US
- UK
- France
- Germany
- ...

I would also add Netherlands to this list, very large market for Nokia. It sucks that it won't sell in the US, since it really did show outrageous amount of interest in the MeeGo device. Elop should be fired immediately if Nokia is to survive. He is trying not to sell in Nokia markets in order to justify inadequate demand for the N9 and support his WP7 contract.

shallimus

2011-06-27 15:44

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1040021)

The choice of countries is interesting.
...
The surprising thing is that some of the countries were missed out:
...
What do you make of this country list?

As has been pointed out in these forums before, that page almost certainly isn't a list of all the countries where the N9 will be released (unless anyone has an update?)

inte	2011-06-27 15:55

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by shallimus (Post 1040082)

As has been pointed out in these forums before, that page almost certainly isn't a list of all the countries where the N9 will be released (unless anyone has an update?)

There is a Nokia shop in Germany while there is no Nokia shop in neither Austria nor Switzerland. How can the closure of the UK Nokia online shop be anyhow related to the N9 not beeing released in the UK, while the N9 will be released in both Austria and Switzerland (in these two countries Nokia does not offer online shopping) but not in Germany (where Nokia could easily sell the N9 through their German online shop)??
Btw: I`ve just realized that the N900 is obviously not available any longer, neither in the Nokia online shop nor through Skype (http://shop.skype.com/intl/de/phones/).
Hopefully, Skype will offer the N9 as well. However, since Skype belongs to Microsoft now, I rather doubt that.

inte	2011-06-27 16:57

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1040090)

Btw: I`ve just realized that the N900 is obviously not available any longer, neither in the Nokia online shop nor through Skype

Yup. Nokia has declared EOL for the N900 Maemo series:
http://www.nokiausa.com/find-product...a-n900/n900eol

When did that happen?

shallimus

2011-06-27 16:57

Re: Nokia will probably not survive 2012 :-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1040090)

I see your point. I guess we'll just have to wait for a coherent message from Nokia :rolleyes:.

That list looks pretty crappy, though. The "Switzerlang" typo has been there for almost a week uncorrected.

inte	2011-06-28 00:14

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

By the way, does anybody here remeber the legendary Palm Foleo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Foleo

It was a Linux based netbook that was ready to hit the stores in 2007, just before the netbook boom began. The project was abandoned by Palm last minute - and we all know what happend to Palm later - they completely missed the Netbook boom and eventually went into bancrypty.

For me it seems obvious that Nokia has choosen the same direction.

Ministeri

2011-06-29 07:54

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Elop has been quiet since Friday. Is it a good sign?

Or has he made any new statements?

Kozzi

2011-06-29 08:04

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ministeri (Post 1041293)

Elop has been quiet since Friday. Is it a good sign?

Or has he made any new statements?

He's busy playing Elpo

Rugoz

2011-06-29 09:00

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

He's busy playing Elpo

Not really, he's busy keeping the platform on fire.

Rauha

2011-06-29 09:37

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozzi (Post 1041298)

He's busy playing Elpo

Actually he was busy getting Elpo removed from the Ovi Store.

EDIT: Seems to be now available from developer homepage.
http://ovi.petrucci.ch/

http://ovi.petrucci.ch/elpo/Scr000049.jpg

Protegio

2011-06-29 14:29

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

That really was funny as hell :)

steveburczymucha

2011-06-30 07:44

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/ar...kia/1309189409

qwazix

2011-06-30 08:07

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1038590)

What we get is a platform similar to Bada, mean and lean and fast (like nothing you Linux geeks would believe), but with Qt.

bada is just an interface. It now runs IIRC on freebsd and it can be run on meego too. So the snappiness isn't due to the lack of linux

kevloral

2011-06-30 13:03

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozzi (Post 1041298)

He's busy playing Elpo

Nope. He was busy selling Nokia messaging business:

Quote:

Nokia sells messaging business

Synchronica wins US contracts

Nokia has quietly sold off its operator-braded messaging business.

The buyer is Synchronica, itself an established upstart in providing communications and messaging services. Financial terms of the deal have not been disclosed, but it will see Synchronica getting access to all of Nokia's email, instant messaging, social networking and client software.

It's an interesting acquisition. With it, Synchronica gets the contract to look after major US carriers, including AT&T, Sprint Nextel, T-Mobile USA and Verizon Wireless. Synchronica will get all of the sourcecode for Nokia's messaging client and server software. It'll also get the Nokia code for Series 40 and Symbian devices. Nokia will continue to load the software onto Series 40 phones but Synchronica will slowly take over the development.

250 employees will go from Nokia to Synchronica.

Nokia dismantling continues.

steveburczymucha

2011-06-30 13:08

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

It seems all development activities are gradually moved out of Nokia. What will remain? Design studio?

kevloral

2011-06-30 14:22

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveburczymucha (Post 1042147)

It seems all development activities are gradually moved out of Nokia. What will remain? Design studio?

Bean counters. Until they run out of beans to count, that is.

Rugoz

2011-06-30 14:26

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Nokia dismantling continues.

They sold off operator-branded messaging, not their own. Calm down people :)

inte	2011-07-02 08:08

N950 on ebay

Does anybody know what to think about this?

http://www.gomonews.com/ebayer-comes...go-developers/

The seller claims to be a developer who could get his hands on the N950 devices.

Given the fact there are loads of N950 phones available which were initially produced for pubilc release but later abandoned in favor of the N9, this could on the one hand be true.
However, This guy already sold more than 20 phones, which I find to be quite a large number of devices for a single developer.
I´d therefore guess it´s a fake auction... what would you think?
Would be really nice if it was true, though.

Dave999

2011-07-12 08:55

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

http://www.cio.com.au/article/393153...uccessful_yet/

Ballmer admits win 7 phone is not a success so far. Windows is not on fire. I only see some smoke. Don't think we will see any fire.

ysss	2011-07-12 09:22

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...8/original.gif

NokTokDaddy

2011-07-12 09:27

Re: N950 on ebay

Quote:

Originally Posted by inte (Post 1043211)

Does anybody know what to think about this?

http://www.gomonews.com/ebayer-comes...go-developers/

The seller claims to be a developer who could get his hands on the N950 devices.

Tempting though this is, the old advice that if something seems too go to be true it's probably best to avoid it should be applied liberally here.

If indeed there are any surplus N950's I'm sure they'll pop up through known and reputable channels before long. I wouldn't buy anything from anyone until they had a demonstrable history of selling that product.

Dave999

2011-07-12 19:54

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

stream from MS Demo of Mango

http://digitalwpc.com/#fbid=v_sCpe-NR9J

jo21	2011-07-12 20:27

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

well that its , even ballmer admits it.
wp7 sales are terrible.

nokia is in deep ****, ballmer probably expect nokia to carry wp7 by brand name

gerbick

2011-07-12 20:45

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

And that's who Elop chose to partner with.

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

steveburczymucha

2011-07-12 23:59

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1049779)

And that's who Elop chose to partner with.

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

But will imho fail. Or won't be as spectacular as those two (elop & ballmer) would like ti to be.

gerbick

2011-07-13 00:17

Re: Microsoft, your platform is on fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveburczymucha (Post 1049860)

But will imho fail. Or won't be as spectacular as those two (elop & ballmer) would like ti to be.

You clearly missed the sarcasm in my statement.

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