Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Summary: abill_uk in his usual role: knowing jack sh*t, talking hot air en masse.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Please people, let's keep this on-topic and stop feeding the trolls (even if Hanlon's razor applies).

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

According to: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members :
Linux foundation members:
Platinum:

• Fujitsu
• Hitachi
• IBM
• Intel
• NEC
• Oracle
• Qualcomm (QUIC)

Gold:

• AMD
• China Mobile
• Cisco
• Etri
• Google
• HP
• Motorola
• NetAPP
• Nokia
• Novell
• Panasonic
• Toyota

Silver:
skipped

This remainds me of ISO committees. It's there to facilitate open international standards, but over the time the organisation was infested with big corporations and interest groups. They pay big money for sitting in the committees which work on standards, vote on the them and publish them.

This kind of system allows members to influence standars and maintain awareness of developments.

Is there any place for community there?
NO

This kind of organization is not for small companies or communities.

The decision is not surprising, all of the members have significant patent portfolios and long history of patent fights.

Do they want community?
NO, their goal is to marginalise organisations such as FSF.

My guess is that several of the for-mentioned entities have created informal interest group which has pushed this decision.

Similar things happened in past with OASIS standard.

Think about entrusting wolves with the well being of a sheep. :D

Meee, Meeee.....

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

By the way, folks, if there's someone whose frequent posts bother you, and who doesn't seem to contribute to any of the threads that they post in, you can click on their name, choose "View public profile", click on the "user lists" drop-down, and choose "add to ignore list". This makes all the posts by that user turn into little one sentence blurbs: "This message is hidden because username is on your ignore list."

I only wish this option would hide any posts that quote or refer to that person, as well. Sadly, you still have to skip over all of the gluttons for punishment who try to talk sense into the person that you've ignored.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

just read thru the whole thread and i think gerbick pretty much summed it up in his previous two posts;
what i would like to add, which strikes me as important, is the fact that MeeGo or Maemo for that matter can't be compared with a traditional Linux / GNU distro because it / they are / were driven by a hardware vendor.

this will never work
period.
Intel may be a better option in that they don't manufacture devices themselves but only components.
it comes closer to the Android situation where Google doesn't care about royalties but sells Adword clicks.

i wonder in how far NOKIA will in fact stop founding maemo.org after 2012.
did they ever provide founds for more then a year at a time?

another MeeGo device ?

true, right now NOKIA sounds all wp and that's what Elop has been hired for.
that doesn't mean they do not keep doing other things in parallel. standing behind formeego.com/org or continued founding for maemo.org seem to hint at a dedicated NOKIA that supports it products.

open sourcing drivers?
this isn't NOKIA's battle.
it's TI's fight, if they want to fight it and obviously, TI has chosen not to open source their code.
just like NVidia is NOT open sourcing but providing binaries for nearly any platform one can name.
even supporting old GPUs with binaries of old drivers that are kept up to date to the current kernel version.

nVidia – The new MeeGo Battle Ground

you wouldn't be able to run any (ANY) Linux / GNU distro on an Alienware if you were depending on Dell to provide drivers.

hoping for the best...
so, what about planning for the worst?
well, obviously Intel isn't keen on an open source software market.
forums are great (& cheap) to support "geeks" (or even Dad or Mom who are playing around with... Smeegol on an old lappy during the week-end.)
to compete with fruits & Co., you need something more serious. sorry :(

EDIT: LF? well, the open source (reverse engineered) drivers that come with the kernel are worth... well, whatever they are worth :mad:
LF doesn't provide any proprietary code in the kernel. like i said before, it is up to NVidia, AMD/ATI, Broadcom and the like to either make the source code available or provide binaries for their hw.
openSUSE or Fedora are good examples of Linux / GNU distro that work because they are backed by SW / service companies that benefit from the open community contribution (SuSE / Novell respectively RedHat) and thus provide "hosting" and infrastructure.
DebIan is the notable exception of a distro that is totally independent.
maybe an inspiration for MeeGo / Maemo future?

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

That is a side-channel attack.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Yes and after nearly 2 years to end up with a mess it gets very boring and tiring.

Nothing new nothing moves forward only talk talk talk and no action.

This community could have been something not like it is now BORING.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Actually I've referred to the "leakage" of the ignored information, when somebody replies with quoted text, so ignoring becomes useless. ;)

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

is it so difficult to read the author of the post & decide to skip the post altogether?
need an automatic gearbox & airco for everything, right?
automatic steering, maybe, too?
automatic updates, like m$?
automatic forums? sure...

i don't think abill was refering to the ignore feature.
(he uses it)
rather suspect he was disappointed by posters branding TROLL all over the place without ever addressing the issue of the post(s).
namely the deafening silence of the Council.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

We are the last to find out anything untill somebody let's it loose.

All this thread is about is yet another problem to stop what this community should be about, progress.

It is all wrong from start to finish because all anyone wants is a working progressive mobile device, not something you pay 600 quid for to be completely forgotten about in the space of less than a year by it's manufacturer.

All this nonsence is is just another step back from reality to give more.... talk talk talk.

Linux , Maemo and MeeGo are not going anywhere right now because of legal situations that keep cropping up.

Nokia have made us all suffer at the end of the day by pulling the plug on just about everyone.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

EDITED: My post was meant as a practical joke on qole's post about ignoring members. Reminds me of re-twitted messages.

Council is insignificant entity compared to the Linux Foundation, as long as they depend on funding from one of the members. I mean no dis-respect, and I appreciate both the members and motivation, I am simply stating the fact.

I would prefer a community based distro for mobile devices. The only problem is that hardware vendors will not allow it, since it does not fit their ecosystem-strategies. They simply denies us open source drivers, or ability to write them independently.

[ConspiracyTheory]The unpublicised idea of Linux Foundation is to box-in everything.[/ConspiracyTheory]

The problem with Linux, is that over the time it was subtly stolen from us. Remember the beginnings and the motivation behind GNU/Linux os.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

there is no free lunch, remember?
maybe a free beer, but not the lunch, nope :rolleyes:
why do we get free Linux / GNU on our PCs?
again, Novell / SuSE or RedHat need openSUSE / Fedora to maintain existing features or develop new ones.
Novell's fate proves how difficult that can be and it is not like RedHat is thriving, neither.
well, can't blame (open-)SuSE for Novell's demise. Novell has been on a lost positions since m$ took over corporate LANs and WANs. but SuSE's acquisition by Novell in the 1st place is the actual indication that surviving solely by providing free software... isn't a good business model, nope

but if RedHat or Novell were treating their communities like NOKIA... i guess "Hanlon's razor" applies here too. NOKIA isn't mean, they have simply no clue how to manage a community of developers.

[EDIT]: or how to develop software and hardware in parallel
mind yourself, hw companies like IBM or HP don't have a free OS. the OSes come licensed pretty heavily and that's why both are on the LF comity too
both need to support their HW on Linux / GNU too & adapt their SW & services (aka.........................
YES ecosystem) to it.
[/EDIT]

alas :(

so the openSUSE / Fedora model is out.
it will be up to the community (council, anyone?) to lead the charge :cool:

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Let's think about reverse situation community based application developed for nokia distribution?

Free lunch for Nokia?
Definitely!!!
Bon Appetit!

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

free software market, yup
strange Elop with all his e-c-o-s-y-s-t-e-m hype doesn't value that more, no?

have you any idea what they drink in Espoo?
trust me, if you had that stuff for free, you'd have a hard time even putting on a pair of rubber boots ¦-))))))))))))))

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Just put the other person on your ignore list as well, it is most of the time just one who is replying and quoting this person.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

I couldn't say it better myself, well I probably could but that's beside the point :D

However, this will still be of great benefit for communities and small companies. Everything is still available and it is being taken very good care of, nothing is gone.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Are their any notes, updates to when any movements on this might happen and if this affects the Nokia N9's release?

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

I think that encouraging people to ignore others is a horrible idea -- communication is hard enough without confusion over who is actually seeing which messages are at hand. In one extreme case, I think banning is the better option.

Besides, everyone reading these messages has spent most of a lifetime watching tv filled with commercials -- what's the matter, you haven't had enough practice filtering out messages you don't want to receive?

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Maemo 2011... it's just like Maemo 2008, now! :p heh... welcome to the Maemo dead-end party, N900'ers! The rest of us have been waiting for you. :)

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

and yet there is Adblock Plus.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Well in any case it shall be fun party :) cake + drinks whats the worst that can happen... lol

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

That: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNrLly1vvM :)

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

It's also completely irrelevant. The council's purpose is to "represent the Maemo community's best interests to Nokia, and to act as a community conduit for Nokia-generated information", none of which applies to this situation which is between the MeeGo community and the Linux Foundation.

Noting also that this thread was started by a current council member, anyone who complains about "the deafening silence of the Council" is obviously trolling and should be ignored if we want to have a constructive discussion.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

had forgotten that last time...
you just joined bbq, nooo, se, micpc and fahadj2k3 on my ignore list ¦-)

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

SD69, as i said in my 1st post on this thread, i read the whole thread (7 pages when i started, 8 by the time i got to the end...) trying to get an overview of what had be said & asked. noticed you posted a couple answers to clarify things.
thank you for posting those informations in the 1st place, of course!

i take it that you didn't start this thread on behalf of the council?
are you entitled to make any statement on behalf of the council?
if not, how does the council communicate with the community?

if what a troll previously posted here is true ("the council is the voice of the community to NOKIA
" (my wording)) i'm literally flabbergasted :eek: :(
when was the last time the council had any contact with NOKIA?!?

again, is this the council's position or just your personal wish?

to also try to nail once & for all one of the reason ppl have been branded trolls over & over again, a final question...
did any member of the council ever ask NOKIA for the source code of closed components?

sincerely,
mr.c.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Since Nokia has disengaged from Maemo, this purpose should be revisited. If maemo.org were to become a community governed non-profit "Maemo Foundation" type group, then I guess the next elected Council can take a role in making that change.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Correct

Yes, the postings on the Council's official blog:
http://maemo.org/community/council/

at least in part, through the Blog and the "ask the council" thread. Do not expect that Council reads each thread in the forum.

Tuesday

My personal wish

Yes, several times...

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

thank you for your prompt answer(s) :)

i don't but i feel others like me at least wish there would be more involvement of the council in some discussion.
Council_Update-July_2011 was indeed the thread where i started to understand things better about the Maemo community.
mostly thanks to a fairly long discussion w/ Abill, Gerbick and Dan.
for once it was more like the dance around the monolith, rather then the one around the water (with the bones...)
are we on the moon yet?

where is this "ask council thread"?

and ? :eek:

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

This was a Linux Foundation decision. In fact, Nokia is trying to help here.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

The sub-thread on the future of maemo.org has been moved to "[Council] Council_Update-July_2011" as it is a continuation of that discussion. Please leave this thread for issues and ideas surrounding the MeeGo community and formeego.com.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

One caveat: AppUp is going out of their way to support "mom and pop" operations. In fact AppUp is more of a metastore than a traditional app store.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

isn't it more or less the implied and assumed idea of NOKIA that the Maemo community should move on to MeeGo / Harmattan?

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

The council isn't silent. The council is always posting here and there and everywhere. They're a bunch of opinionated loud-mouths. ;)

Do you even know who the council members are?

BTW if you are ignoring lma, of all people, then you are clearly not interested in the opinions of core community members and developers.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

if people can take some time reading mailinglist they explain very good (David and Thomas) why this was done(and actually needed imho) and also Davids blog:

http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/08...tallments.html

instead of flood this forum with rumors and dissinformation.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

NOOO they MUST release it in sweden 23 september else...............,.....,,........

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

then u have to wait.....

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

Anytime you're ready... the rest of us have been sitting here on the side, keeping the benches warm.

Re: A significant day in community governance?
 

some even paid a small fortune to have a seat in the 1st row, i'd say :D :rolleyes: