Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Feel free to check the proposals from last year (http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_C...ation_proposal) and edit the new wiki page accordingly (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_coding_competition_2012)...
;)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hm, yes. How many developers are still around maemo.org?

Wooohoo... :D
Thanks, kojacker. You made my day. This is what every developer wants to read. :D
So, have I created a useful application? A ridiculous feedback app. Perhaps it could fit next time into the toolkit category! ;)

Mmh... wow, good mark. Lets hope the next donators will try to catch up! :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I would say no need to do so. :)

Have a look at this wiki and this thread already created by qgil. http://talk.maemo.org/image.php?u=76...ine=1242253668 :D

So perhaps we could point to this thread at our coding competition wiki and keep it clean only for our competition.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hm, looks more like a "it exists already somewhere else and it is needed to port it to the N9"-wiki.
Here is my try to collect some new ideas: [SURVEY:] What kind of Applications are you missing at the N900?

Old and N900 related, but perhaps still helpful for some N9 developers...

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hello there!

I'm glad coding competition is so advanced in preparations.

Don't get this as hostile or whatsnot, but I would like to mention again, that, to my best knowledge, seeding activity as a whole have 40 N950's and 60 N9's. We have 4 categories - 2 governed by qgil, 1 by CC team, and 1 by Council.

As for category governed by Council - Community Awards - 1/4 of devices pool, which means 10 N950's and 15 N9/s is a bare minimum. So, if you want to assign more than 10 N950's to CC, You need to get lacking ones from QT5 and Nokia store category, governed by qgil - of course, if he agrees.

Please, take it into consideration, when working on categories.

/Estel

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I added a description of the voting process to the 2012 Coding Competition Wiki page. It would be nice if you could review what I wrote. If you find discrepancies or some things are unclear I think it's best to publicly discuss this here.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_codi...on_2012#Voting


Thanks :)

Edit: To avoid confusion, I did this on request by zehjotkah. ;)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Because of your concern some pages ago, I came up with the idea to have one N950 and at least one N9 per category.
At the moment we have 10 categories. That means we need 10 N950 and at least 10 N9s, which is exactly the amount we should get.
The "spare" 5 N9s could be distributed among the categories with the most submissions.

I think that's perfect. Thanks a lot!

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

As said, the Coding Competition has priority deciding how many N950/N9 they want. I just need a number.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Ops, I must've miss-read it. Excuse me, and thanks for such cooperation.

As CC is going to get prizes as last category, You can be sure, that - in case of any unassigned devices (it probably won't be a case for Community awards, but You can't be sure), we will surely re-allocate them to CC, so there is a chance for some bonus prizes :)

If CC could sue any help from Council, feel free to contact me or other Councilors. I hope everyone know, that we're playing on same team :)

/Estel

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

100 devices please! :D
Then everyone will win! Cause I don't think we will get more than 100 brand new apps.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

PayPal donation link for the community fund:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=FTU62WATF94BW

Code to embed it:
edit: updated wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_codi...ity_Prize_Fund


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m46e7rSS0m1r0ezn2.jpg

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hello,

what about to have a sub-category in each one about updating (porting?) an existing app?

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

We could use the same category as "Update/Port an existing application".

This category would probably receive more submissions than original applications categories, but as we already have some additional devices, we could give more prizes for this category if finally we have a lot of submissions.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I will vote for sure, for an update to preenv and WebOS Games Manager ;)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Then we'd need double the amount of prizes...

How would you distribute the prizes?

That would be awesome! But according to javispedro there is a problem with Aegis on the N9/N950 as far as I remember...


Edit:
40€ donated by Wonko.
Thanks!

Check all donations here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_codi...ity_Prize_Fund

edit2: more and more donations are coming in... you're awesome!

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Brilliant Idea! :D

No, since the "Updates category" would get removed. ;)

The current proposal:

But which system should we use to spread them and how to avoid anger?
I tought already the past days about this problem since someone could say later "If I had known..." - a fixed system is always better since everybody will know how it works and what to win in the end.

We have 25 devices to spread, right?

Categorie 8 would get removed, categorie 9 and 10 are already participating in Categorie 1-7.

So, what about this:

We divide the bounty into 16 shares.

Then we run the main categories as two competitions - the updated from the new apps seperated:

Competition 1: NEW APPLICATIONS:
1a. Business & Office
2a. Games
3a. Graphics & Multimedia
4a. Location & Navigation
5a. Network & Communication
6a. Others
7a. System & Utilities

1st Prize: N950
2nd Prize: N9
3rd Prize: Bounty share

Competition 2: UPDATES TO EXISTING APPLICATIONS:
1b. Business & Office
2b. Games
3b. Graphics & Multimedia
4b. Location & Navigation
5b. Network & Communication
6b. Others
7b. System & Utilities

1st Prize: N9
2nd Prize: Bounty share
3rd Prize: "thanks for participating"

Bonus Competition Beginner-Award

8. Beginner-Award (one from any category)

1st Prize: N950 (and I read somewhere kojacker would donate again a book?)
2nd Prize: N950
3rd Prize: Bounty share

Bonus Competition Multi-Platform-Award
9. Multi-Platform-Award (one from any category)

1st Prize: N950
2nd Prize: N9
3rd Prize: Bounty share

10 x N950, 15 x N9. In total 25 devices, am I right?

Rule: If someone from the Bonus Competitions (Beginner-Award or Multi-Platform-Award) has already won a device in the Main Competition 1 or 2 he will get excluded with every other app he has submitted from the Bonus Competitions. The votes to his submissions won't get evaluated will get evaluated but will get ignored and we will overide it in the results. The Prizes will get in this case distributed to the next guys in the ranking.
If a beginner is already good enought to win the 1st or 2nd seat in the main categorie he is not a beginner. And the updated app is in this case are also already enought appreciated. :)

If I remember correctly we had the last time enought for a place 3 to 5 bounty share. So we should get hopefully enought for 16 bounty shares. Since we prefer new applications there will be only prizes for the best 2 updated apps in each category. Only devices. No Bounty.
If we collect more than a certain level of Money we could spread the Bounty across place 3 and 4. How hight should we set this limit? Hm, what about US$ 1500 ?
So the 3rd Place will not get higher than US$100, unless we collect more than $3000... ;)

This sounds to me a lot better compared to the current proposal.
We are honoring with this system updates to existing apps, we are prefering totally new submissions and we are trying to avoid multi-device-winners. ;)

My old proposal to appreciate apps which get ported from the N900 to the N9 during this competition was rejected or were forgotten. They could find a new home at the "Updates to existing applications" section. So developers, brush the dust off from your floppy disks and hunt down your old code. There is a Nokia N9 waiting for you. (If my proposal gets finally accepted by everyone) ;)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

So far I just had a quick glance at your post. But just some quick remarks with respect to the technical side of counting votes:
I'm afraid that's very dificult, if possible at all, to realize using our current voting process. And personally, I do not want to complicate things even more. We already had a very hard time the last time to come with the solution as it exists now.

This on the other hand is very simple and does not need any change to the voting process. Simply skip the ones that already got a price and choose the next one in line according to the ranking determined using our voting process as explained in the Wiki.

Edit: Please excuse me if I am too picky about this but I learned from the last time that a voting process is indeed a very delicate topic and even the smallest details could lead to lots of confusion, trouble, changes in the results and what not.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Sorry, I meant it exactly this way. I'm not a native speaker. So excuse please if my "english" is hard to understand. :(

To get it as exactly as possible, we get at example in the Beginner Category in the end this rating result:
1. Wonko
2. helex
3. zehjotkah
4. Kojacker

If helex won in this example already at the games category a Device we would ignore helex at the Beginners category and the prizes will go to Wonko, zehjotkah and Kojacker. No extra fiddling at the voting system. We don't need this pain a second time. ;)

No, thanks a lot. Very appreciated!
It is in the interest of every member to make this as exactly as possible. :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Thanks for the clarification. :)
And don't worry, I am no native speaker as well. I think the fewest of us are. ;)

And yes, you're right. It was a quite a struggle the last time. But I think the solution we have now is pretty elegant and fair.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I would prefer zehjotkahs proposal. It's just easier to understand.

The important thing about this competition is that we need more apps in the maemo/meego world. More in this case means new ones, not updated or ported ones.

And just as a side note. the voting process with zejotkahs proposal is alot easier to manage and to understand for voters.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

The voting would be exactly the same. But we would need 16 polls instead of 10. Also the inportant fact that we would need new applications is covered since the participants are only able to win a N950 with a new application, not with a updated.

Orphaned and not updated applications are a big and very annoying problem exactly as apps which are still not ported from the N900 and before to the current Nokia N9.

Zehjotkah's proposal has 5 not assigned Devices (I know, it was my proposal to spread those later), but a more clearer and fixed solution could be in the end less frustrating.
Also are the several times addressed updates covered and still seperated to the more important new apps. We need to seperate those because a since several years developed application is already more polished compared to one which is in a early state.

It is not easy to allocate 25 devices to 7 to 10 categories. But I would say I found a fair solution for everyone, even if it looks at the first glimpse more complicated. :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

It doesn't matter which system we'll use, this will be a challenge, just like in the past years.

I think this would be a bigger problem with your idea...

Not exactly.
The Beginner award is an award the participant can apply for.
The Mulitplatform award will be given to the participant whos app is available on the most platforms..

Hmmm, I think that's waaaay too complicated. How to explain that successfully to the participants? Last years even dividing into MeeGo ARM and MeeGo x86 caused problems...


Similar but much easier to understand with my proposal:
A participant just can get one prize. The highest prize counts.
So if someone wins a N950 and in another category he wins a N9 and in another category he wins money, he will only get the N950.
The remaining prizes would go to the runner ups.
With this rule we'd prevent flooding the competition with low quality apps and concentrate more on quality apps.

I'd prefer just one money prize per category because of the PayPal fees. With every transaction there are basic PayPal fees regardless of the amount of the transaction.

No, we have the Multi Platform Award for that.
New app doesn't mean it has to be written from scratch. Of course you could port your N900 app which wasn't available for the N9 until now and enter with it as new app for the N9.
Automatically you'd be part of the Multi Platform Award.

The winner of the Multi Platform Award won't be voted, because the app with the most targeted platforms wins. No voting process needed...

edit: the five N9s would be spreaded to the five categories with the most submissions.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hello!

This community is incredible.

I've been reading posts here for as long as I have my N900 (it's about year and a half), but these news about new competition made me move my lazy ***, register here and start coding myself, not just relying on community's activity.

I want to participate in this competition for sure, but I have one question: what if I start porting an (open source) application by another developer, which is on N900, but is not yet on N9? Is it applicable? Which category would it be?

Or may be it's better for me to concentrate on some new stuff?

Thanks in advance!

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

No problem - this can be update for Fremantle, I'm sure it would get maaaany votes.

Of course, I think that multiplatform projects are best, and shining future awaits for them on COBS.

/Estel

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

As this app isn't available for the N9 yet, it would be considered as new app and would fit in any of the first 7 categories (in my proposal).
Also it seems to be your first maemo/Harmattan project, you'd be eligible for the Beginners Award.

If you consider doing updates to the N900 version as well during the timeframe, these updates would fit into the Updates Category (8). Automatically, you'd take part in the Multi Platform Award because you'd target more than one platforms now.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

For the multi platform competition I can see several problems.

I could be a dick, monitor the applications that are in the competition and do the minimal amount of porting to have the same amount as the one that has the most, and do it for the same platforms.

Then there is I could make an iFart for many platforms, and win because it's a simple application, and probably easier to port then something that requires hardware integration, like accelerometer, camera or other.

Maybe there should be platforms defined in advanced, and/or a good definition what a platform means in this context.
If it working on desktop, is it one platform or three (windows, mac and linux, maybe others BSD). I'm assuming as we're mentioning fremantle and harmattan, the latter.
If desktop is excluded and we go only for mobile world. Do we take into consideration android, iOS, bada and others?

IMHO this category should be well defined as it's a hornets nest,

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I've added a new donation, 50€ from myself. I'll try to give you the money in Berlin at the end of june. ;)

And by the way, since many Qt/qml developers are following this thread, a shameless advertising. BlackBerry is currently organizing a BB Jam World Tour. A good chance to meet other maemo members and Qt developers around the world.

I've created a new topic and a wiki page to find other community members at this events. Please add yourself to the wiki if you are attending a event.

See you in Berlin! :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

please can you pelp me :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

On a related note for Qt & Python developers, looks like someone already ported PySide to the BlackBerry Playbook, they also want to upstream the needed changes back to PySide & plan to add support for the Cascades in summer.
PySide on the BlackBerry Playbook

EDIT:
a more detailed article about porting PySide on the Playbook

The multi-platform award might get quite interesting numbers in the end. :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Yes, feels in the first moment like a new competitor which could mug away developers from the maemo platform. But after a short moment it looks in my opinion more like a big chance for our community.

Speaking for myself, the rumored Meltemi platform looks currently not very attractive to use it myself as a daily device. And I won't develop for a device which I will not use myself. But if BlackBerry is doing it right I will get in the end a N9 or even better a N950 successor, sadly without terminal, but perhaps still attractive enought to use it as my daily device.
Since it supports Qt, qml and now first successful tries to get python on it running the Qt BB10 apps will get easily portable back and forth to BB10, N9 and later Meltemi. BB10 Devices are currently not available, but our N9 are.

So, attend now our coding competition! The future for your Qt stuff looks currently very bright! :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Hello,

For the Multi Platform Award I see some other problems (maybe it's just me).
Since I don't have different devices from maemo/meego it would be difficult to me to test and vote for the multi-platform award, so my vote (and I think maybe others) will go to the one who says that his app run on many different devices, so basically you have only to trust the developer.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

There will be no voting for that award like stated. Though the iFart concern seems reasonable.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Thanks, I haven't thought about the iFart problem...
Trying to find a solution this evening.

But do you agree with me, that it is a very important award, which shouldn't be missing from the competition?

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Maybe we should do it as award for *new* multiplatform program?

/Estel

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

My concern about the multiple platform award is slightly different. If we consider our main focus as Maemo/Harmattan, then we have the N900 and N9(50) plus possibly the older legacy Maemo devices (N810/800/770). In my opinion the competition should be focusing on generating development for the two 'main' platforms N900 and N9(50) but it's great if they work with the legacy devices too.

Here's my concern. If you offer a prize for the application on the most platforms, aren't you really diverting the developers attention and time away from developing for the core devices that our members here at maemo.org use? It's cool that someone's Qt application can also run on Symbian, Android, BlackBerry, Raspberry Pi, Panda board - amazing! But is that time and effort for converting to the other platforms going to mean the finished application for our Maemo/Harmattan devices will have less features and will be less polished?

In my head I'm thinking that the competition runs for a finite time, and in that time the developer has to do everything. If it takes X days/weeks to port and test on his Android smartphone, then it's X days/weeks less that could have been spent giving us a better Maemo/Harmattan application. Maybe I'm being greedy and selfish, but I'm only concerned about what we can use here ;)

It's a perfect category for a Qt coding competition, but I'm not sure how much it benefits maemo.org. For me, I would think twice about making it a category in the maemo.org coding competition.

On the other hand, it's only one category out of lots so I'm not overly worried about it :p

Now I got that off my chest, back to the things that do worry me.. like do I have enough ink in my printer to print a few of these out before tonight's Eurovision competition ;)

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profil..._hump_EDIT.jpg

If you'd like some voting practise before the competition starts, might I suggest you practise by voting for Engelbert in tonight's competition :D

/shameless

PS: Sweden or Spain should win imo

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Why so? If people are willing to vote for Fremantle programs - and, apparently, they are - it shouldn't be "cut down" by construction of categories.

BTW, IMO, main point of interest for multiplatform are Fremantle, Harmattan, and Mer. After all, common COBS is going to happen for those 3 distributions, not symbian, blackberry, or whatever.

Of course, it's only my point of view - still, when I proposed it, long time ago, I had those 3 "main pillars" in mind. It's promoting good practices, that should benefit after start of COBS.

/Estel

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

I think what Im getting at is that the boundaries for the multiple platforms should be specified better so that the development will benefit the users here at maemo.org. I had seen this category described as a prize for the application on most platforms. That's very vague. It would be better described, imo, as a prize for the application on most platforms that benefits the users of our community - and I include all the offshoot projects in that ofcourse. You might need to specify which platforms in the rules, or the decision could be open to challenge.

To use a silly example, if we have two equally good applications entered - one that runs on Fremantle, Harmattan, and Mer and one that runs on Fremantle, an Android fridge freezer, and a BlackBerry tennis racquet - then they would have the same number of platforms but the first would be more valuable to the community. The rule for the category should make it clear that the winner(s) will be chosen on the platforms that benefit us most.

I think you're reading that as common sense. All I'm saying is that the common sense needs spelled out :)

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Who defines "main"? Newsflash: the N900 has also been a legacy device for a while now.

If this is supposed to be a Qt coding competition then call it that, otherwise don't exclude valid (Maemo) targets please.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Thanks for the newsflash Ima, but I dont see how you're reading that I'm suggesting we exclude any valid Maemo targets. In fact, I'm suggesting the opposite. I'm saying that we should be focusing the platforms to valid maemo.org community targets. The whole point of the competition imo is to generate development for all maemo.org targets, and not to all platforms that Qt can potentially reach. I don't know if it's the way I've written it or the way you've read it, but It's like you're arguing with me with essentially the same view point :p

The use of 'main' to describe the N900 and N9(50) platforms is my own opinion only, and I use it in the context of where I see most development happening. I see them as being the 'main' bulk of entries for the competition, and the 'main' bulk of target devices that will be owned by the testers/voters in this competition. All imo, your mileage may vary :) I don't mean to use the word 'main' to belittle to exclude any other valid projects.

Re: 2012 Coding Competition
 

Apologies if I misread you, I just don't want to see this restricted to N9* only.