Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Again, the native code enables the use of the hardware enhancements, but to the vast majority of apps that is meaningless. Just because writing in native code is possible, doesn't mean that writing in shared code is not. If that was the case, then how come WP8 devices can run apps written for WP7.5? So, I guess our biggest disagreement is to what degree developers move on to writing their apps in the native code. You expect a lot, I expect that only apps that truly require the enhancements (like big games) will be written so. Either way, this doesn't affect me in any way. I'm planning to stay with my N9 for many years to come. All I want is PR 1.3 with bug fixes and that somebody capable of porting google skymap to MeeGo would do so..

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

ALL Nokia mobiles will be obsolete soon except for the WP devices that will be very heavily supported by Microsoft, those who stay with anything Nokia built will only maybe have this community for support but if this goes down then that's it you move on.

Those who swear allegiance to Nokia now can only do so for WP nothing else because nothing else will ever be built.

Those who go on about this crap N9 are dreaming and is another dejavu as in the N900 and we all know what has happened with that device.

Good luck you going to need it.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Native code support does not simply enable the use of the hardware enhancements. You can get hardware enhancements without native code support. Native code support is not a language itself, it means developers have low level access. For example that means programs written in things like Adobe Air, Unity, Unreal, etc will not run on WP7.8 and would require a complete rewrite.

It is highly likely that apps will be made with cross platform tools, history already shows it, especially with a low install base. It is highly unlikely that somebody will target WP7.8 specifically since the platform is a legacy platform where the user base is small and no longer growing.

Think of it this way, Maemo can run WebOS native apps, doesn't mean the Maemo community are writing WebOS apps for Maemo. They would just write a Maemo app. WP7.8 is a legacy platform and very few people will target it specifically. It has nothing to do with new hardware.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

But if apps are made with cross platform tools, they're not specifically targeting WP7.8 phones, but both WP7.8 and WP8 phones. Since the vast majority of apps don't need the enhancements, I don't see why the developers would make their apps specifically for WP8, i.e. why would they throw away their current know how just because they can? Now, over time, this will likely chance if the Windows 8/Windows phone 8 platform takes off, but that's not in the near future, and as I pointed out, by the time this scenario happens (or not), it would be the time to upgrade your phone anyway..

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

am I late to enter this thread before Lumiaman?

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

No, because the cross platform tools will not work on WP7.8 because cross platform tool developers do not have native code support. App developers cannot use a cross platform tool to target WP7.8 because the cross-platform tool does not and cannot support WP7.8, the developer would have to rewrite apps for WP7.8 specifically. By "throwing away their current know how" they would be trying to save themselves time and money.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Aren't cross platform tools the very same tools people use today to write apps for WP7.5? Remember, apps written for WP7.5 will also work with WP8. ;) The only scenario in which the developers will need to specifically target WP7.8 is when they first specifically target WP8. You're assuming most developers will immediately move to the new tools. To me, that just seems unlikely (even for the fact that for a while at least WP7.8 will still make the vast majority of WP devices). But yeah, as I said before, I don't really know anything about software development.

Re: Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year?
 

Too be fair: Isnt this also valid when Android upgrades to newer versions?

Wasn't this also the same for Maemo5 vs Maemo6 and so on?

(everybody here knows I dont like WP but still. I dont see ANY company that is backcompatible.

Re: Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year?
 

As I already pointed out, it was in fact worse for Maemo since the old apps were never compatible with the new OS. Same story when Symbian moved to the touch UI thingy.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Not really, people write WP7 apps specifically and often they don't bother because of the low install base. MS often has to partner with them to allow low level access or pay them to rewrite their app.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/te...book.html?_r=1
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ith-apple.html

which platform is missing from these lists? Why do you think that is?
http://www.unrealengine.com/platforms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Integrated_Runtime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(game_engine)

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

whatever you say
fact is: wihtout IBM's order, they would have disappeared just like Seattle Computers Products, the actual creator of QDOS / 86-DOS, did.
the only reason they (still) exist is because (not even) their crappy product was sold with every XT/AT/PC & they got some license fees;

not going to happen on the mobile market.
on the contrary...
«WHAT?!? a m$ product ? i'll take anything else!»
>¦-)))))))))))))

EDIT: worst is, if that @$$O of Flop hadn't soiled NOKIA's name with his m0#0nic statements, the same thing that happened on the computer market (m$ become the de facto standard because they were sold on every IBM XT/AT/PC, back then the largest IT company in the world) could have happend on the mobile phone market
consumers would have bought m$ just by buying NOKIA out of routine, without even thinking about it :eek:
good enough a reason for Bllamer to always look so angrily @ Flop ¦-))))))))))))))))))))))))

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

I was using the cross platform term in the context of cross WP7.5 - WP8. Are you saying that in the future apps written for WP8 work cross platform in the context of WP/Android/iOS? I don't recall reading that. I think what was said is that Windows 8 will also run WP8 apps, but perhaps it will also run WP7.5 apps, given that WP8 runs those. I don't know..

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

our N900s (or N9s) aren't obsoleted thanks to Community SSU & Co
Lumias were obsoleted the moment they were put on the market as hardly anyone cares to buy them.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Misterc i hope you read my post before Reggie closed the thread !.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

I really really hate to say this but i think WP is going to be big and will be something to reckon with, i hate Microsoft as much as i have always hated Rupert Murdoch just to set the record clear ok.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Cue... you make a point of Adobe AIR and Unity3D missing from WP7, but they're also missing from MeeGo and Maemo.

It doesn't lessen your statements about WP7 - both of those missing affects me directly as a programmer and as a user.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end (after massive marketing), the Lumia range has sold more than the N9.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

how many lumia series available out there vs single the last maemo fighter aka N9? Well im not impressed at all

Re: Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year?
 

iOS 5 was equivalent to 7.8...watered down...also, firmware updates ARE promised.

Android is a POS fragmented OS...I remember waiting for the updates until I finally rooted and cianogened it, even then it was lagged out. ICS will be delivered to certain phones, during the exact same time the next version will be released for the new phones. Laggy crap.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

I'm not impressed (or surprised) either. However, the post to which I replied postulated that bad sales made it obsolete. I was just pointing out that by this logic the N9 is even more obsolete. The same applies to Apple's OS X running computers. Somebody should let Apple know that their computers are obsolete since far more computers are sold that run Windows..

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

As Nokia have chosen to not release the sales figures for either the n9 or lumias, this argument is null and void.

Not too sure about the n900s numbers though.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

The situation is a wee bit different - those are missing from MeeGo (well, Unity3D was ported for MeeGo Harmattan, remember that Samurai game?) and Maemo not due to the inability for those platforms to support such, but due to way too small user base for Adobe/Unity/others to bother with. On WP 7.5/7.8/whatever-they-want-to-call-it no matter of the user base those cannot be supported on a system level - least Adobe wants to build a LLVM compiler that will spew .NET bytecode (and even then, it's questionable if the full feature set can be supported / used without specific run through VS to 'enrich' it with MS certificates and what-have-you) or Unity to implement it fully in XNA (which they cannot, that's why you can't really use Unity for Xbox games as well, unless you are AAA developer where Microsoft allows you native, direct access).

Both Adobe and Unity, and countless of others (including my own company) that provide some toolkits/libraries for cross-platform development will now be able to painlessly bring their solutions to the WP8 without running through loops n' bounds and restricting feature sets to fit in the tight requirements of WP7.x. That means that developers who utilize those 3rd party libraries/toolkits/whatever won't be able to target the WP7.x users so, while the WP8.x users will be getting those new apps and features, WP7.x users won't.

And that's the main problem that, I think, Cue was explaining. That's called fragmentation, a word used way too many times by MS shills to describe the perils of Android - isn't it ironic when it turns out and bites them in the arse? Since WP already has quite a number of .NET-based, WP7.x compatible apps, the next surge of apps for the WP platform will be coming from game developers that are eager to port their games easily and effortlessly (before, even if your game was XNA-based, the XNA for WP differed too much to be practical for back-porting to WP any moderately complex game) and application publishers who either utilize toolkits like Adobe AIR, Unity3D and the like; or write their apps in C/C++ so they can easily target all other platforms. Both of those won't be available for the WP7.x users so they'll be missing quite a lot - they are also too small of a user base, as well as Maemo/MeeGo, for companies to cater to their needs by writing apps from scratch just for them - they'll just ignore that market and that's it.

Think of it like this - BBC, when they launch their iPlayer for the WP, will most probably just use their shared code base to create close-to-native app for the WP8.x, and they'll apologize to the users of WP7.x by saying that it's way too complex/expensive to cover their needs as well. So, WP7.x users just got royally screwed, and the funniest bit is that Microsoft (and the apologists) are explaining that WP7.x won't be supporting native code because it's related to hardware (yes, they said that a ton of times!, as if app layer has to do anything with the hardware). Oh, well, as long as people are drinking the Microsoft Kool-Aid... Come fall, a different song will be sang by those way too enamored with WP and their precioussssses to see the harsh reality...

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

HTC closes operations here (Brazil)

HTC was the Brazilian market offering devices with Windows Phone, but today announced the cessation of operations due to "no acceptance" of the operating system and weak sales.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

because they are legacy/dead platforms too. * quickly runs away*

No but honestly they are to most commercial entities. One silver lining they have though; at least they are open in comparison to WP7 and I don't mean open source, I know there are binary blobs, I mean at least you can freely develop apps and side load apps so community made apps will still flourish and distribute better.

It was still iOS 5 though it missed some things, if you think that is not going to happen with first gen WP8 phones in future then you have too much faith. WP7.8 is not it's the most severe type of fragmentation.

Android did this already, it was called the "Android Update Alliance"

From here:
http://www.carrypad.com/2011/05/12/g...ts-about-time/

And they did but it doesn't mean it would be a simultaneous release without delay. Doesn't mean your WP8 updates would not be delayed. It's the exact same promise of Android.

What you are referring to is a simultaneous update rollout. MS promised a simultaneous update rollout with WP7, it never kept it either. The carriers blamed MS and MS blamed carriers in the end. It was also partly why OTA updates did not exist on WP7. MS have made no such promise for WP8 now.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Potatoes, potatoes. I am no WP7/8 sympathizer, but all of these OS makers do the same thing, and everyone gets upset, there is no pleasing anyone. I was not talking about simulataneous update rollout, I was talking just simple firmware/software updates, which are 'guarenteed', yes, grain of salt, as with all companies...and I'm sure there will be blame around to carriers and OEMs when/if the updates are not on time, like Samsung and Motorola with their constantly delayed updates for Android.

What people do not understand is that Windows 7 is built off of Windows CE, which CAN NOT be changed over to Windows 8 platform due to incompatibilities on the embedded level itself...this is why 7.8 will just have some aspects of 8, just like iOS 5 for 3gs, etc...MSFT wanted same embeddment on all devices...this will be difficult though due to RTS, Pro, etc already showing some fragmentation that MSFT denies will occur, which we shall see.

I will stick to the N9 until it dies on me, and my n900 is always here as well to flash and mod some more. But, Windows 8, if they can get it correct cross platform wise (phone, tablet, computer, etc.) this will be a first for compatibility then, where iOS and OSX are different support systems. Only time will tell.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

As far as I know that last part is not true. iOS5 is still the same OS at its core on the 3GS. That is not the case with WP7.8 and WP8. The comparison of iOS on the 3GS and the 4S is more like a comparison of WP7 tango on a 256MB ram WP and a 512MB ram WP. The 256 MB ram phone is missing some of the OS features (like fast application switching) but it is still the same OS. WP8 is not.

Older phones could have been made compatible with WP8 but MS did not go back and provide that because they did not consider it worth their time, to offer that kind of older device support would be harder for them, in some ways I don't blame them but at the same time I can see why those who bought a Lumia 900 recently are understandably upset.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Do your research buddy:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...ows-core/12975

There is a reason 7.8 cannot be 8.

Edit: Also, according to some engineering buddies at Apple, iOS5 for 3gs was NOT the same as iOS5 for 4/4s...they had to serverly tweak it down due to nonmulticore support, almost different entirely...hardware support was not there...

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

What do you mean? that actually confirms it.

There is a core change but nothing stops the new windows kernel/core from supporting older hardware other than invested time developing it.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Not if CE is involved, the switch to NT prevents this on the MS platform. Engineering 101.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

The switch to the NT core will replace CE. So the fact that a phone is currently running CE is irrelevant, that's the point. It's like suggesting that I need to buy a new PC to install a new OS like Ubuntu 12 (Linux kernel) because my current one has Windows 7 (Windows NT4) installed. Why? it can replace it.

The only possible reason that would be true is if the new Linux kernel and driver developers did not bother to support my older hardware as they deemed it as not worth it.

I've also just come to the realisation that I have wasted way too much time on this thread.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Normally we agree zwer. But the WP7 platform is just as small.

But other than that, we agree actually.

lol... I just wanted somebody to say what I was thinking.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Again CE is embedded, un-change-able. And yes, this thread is a waste of time, people arguing over things they don't understand.

Different platforms now.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Now I'm intrigued as to what you mean, that an embedded system cannot be flashed and is therefore unchangable?
can you please elaborate as to what has changed so significantly that it would prevent it running the embedded NT kernel?

You think Windows phones somehow have Windows CE baked in to the electronics?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyglmQmv3uU

I mean this genuinely, if you understand it better then please explain it to me.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Yes, this is a dual boot from an sd card, it is different, equivalent to Maemo 5/Android hack Twidroid...if you can get a hold of a CE tutorial, you will see what I mean, I mean this earnestly, I have to go back on call now, but will look for one later, promise.

Edit: If I can get one of my MSFT buddies to cough one up, hell yes, will dropbox the tutorial via pm. If they don't allow, that's that, but here is another article explaining it a little better, today's hardware can NOT use NT, plain and simple. And plopping a slow, terrible version can't be done either in the community due to other constraints as well.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/...ndows-phone-8/

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Edit:Read the top comment in the video, I think you mean NITDROID too.

From NAND flash:
http://pocketnow.com/android/how-to-...d-memory-video

please, I'm interested in reading it thanks.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

That link doesn't explain much at all. There is no mention why the modified NT kernel couldn't support a single core system or lower ram. Todays hardware cannot run the NT kernel because the modified NT kernel has not been written to support it. The reason we will not see a community version is because we cannot modify it, unless your MS buddy can provide kernel source. We only have access to the windows research kernel. I do not have PMs blocked so please do send that dropbox link. Thanks.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

FYI, the 3GS has the exact same hardware as the 4, except RAM. Anyhow, 256MB is sufficient for iOS5 as iPad 1 shows.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

WP8 looks good, really good. I think that this will help MS become a third ecosystem in real force. NOKIA did the right thing to join MS. This is the best move. NOKIA lost the software war, hopefully they dont lose the hardware war. I think that the fact that one will not be able to upgrade from WP7 to WP8, is not a big deal. We couldnt upgrade maemo 5 to 6 on n900, and you cant upgrade 3GS to ios6, etc.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Thing is:

Those who bought N9 instead of Lumia won anyway. Because we have a community that still will makes apps. We have more features on the device.

Those buying Lumia are just stupid people who doesn't care cause they just use it as a dumbphone anyway.

Or more like this: They could have bought an S40 instead and still have same stuff as Lumia crap device for alot lower price.

Re: UPDATE: "1st post" Nokia's Flagship Lumia 900 obsolete in less than a year? ELOP RESPONDS
 

Because that is the definition of obsolete? Check here, and here etc.

can't run the latest version of some software == obsolete
item suddenly loses all functionality == broken


An improved UI/UX is only one element that the end users consider. The perceived value of the handsets will also come from things like support. By closing the door on more complete OS upgrades for earlier handsets, they could relegate themselves to a second-class smartphone platform in the consumers' minds, they may see the options like this:

• iphone/iOS based - long term support for a few years, seen as an investment.
• heavily subsidised & budget handsets, WP based, unknown support, not seen as an investment, not a perceived safe purchase.

No, I think the only things that may help them do that are:

• the massive handset subsidies
• the MS cash reserves to allow them to continue the WP subsidies for years
• and the contract with Nokia to not make competing handsets.

more than the current quality of the WP handsets themselves.

Actually, the 3GS is upgradable to IOS6, please check here, and here.

Apple understands the two generations old 3GS is still for sale so they should probably support it for a while longer. Whereas MS knows the Lumia 800 and 900, and other WP handsets etc are the only options for sale, and announces non-continuation of support (on CURRENT flagship handsets)... the consumer will see a difference.

The 3GS will obviously not be able to run all software available due to hardware or imposed limitations, so it is also partially obsolete but nowhere near the extent of the latest WP farce. (i.e. there is no platform break/shift with the 3GS)... again, the consumer will see a difference.

:)