maemo.org - Talk - [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)

- - [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89318)

n0x	2013-03-06 11:30

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed a bit back...

Great, now at 50+ signatures! :)

praveenchand

2013-03-06 11:45

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

I signed...Together Everyone Achieves More (TEAM )...

Bharateeyudu

2013-03-06 11:55

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

I receive an error when I try to sign... :confused:

"There was an error submitting your form. Please try again later."

Bharateeyudu

2013-03-06 11:58

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bharateeyudu (Post 1327230)

I receive an error when I try to sign... :confused:

"There was an error submitting your form. Please try again later."

Success!!! :)

pishta74

2013-03-06 13:22

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed, thanks!

BTW, 3G Video Call, USB OTG...? :)

Lucazz990

2013-03-06 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pishta74 (Post 1327244)

Signed, thanks!

BTW, 3G Video Call, USB OTG...? :)

I thought it was better to focus on requesting some bug fixing because they are "more" due than features... So it's more likely to happen (if only it could happen :P)

flotron

2013-03-06 15:04

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

signed and shared

krzym

2013-03-06 15:04

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed! :) :D

delmar

2013-03-06 15:21

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed! :)

xprism

2013-03-06 15:49

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed too, hope nokia will fix these buggies for n9.

tiempjuuh

2013-03-06 16:05

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed, even while I think it's nothing more than waste of time. Nokia doesn't have any Linux devs anymore.

Lucazz990

2013-03-06 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiempjuuh (Post 1327275)

Signed, even while I think it's nothing more than waste of time. Nokia doesn't have any Linux devs anymore.

True... But if they really want to do this there are thousands of developers out there :D

setter

2013-03-06 19:11

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed. Good luck!

justadude

2013-03-06 21:56

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed, just to be a nag to them :)

et3rnal

2013-03-07 04:41

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed :D thx

Fallenzone

2013-03-07 05:39

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

signed , hope bugs will be fiexd

gsalone

2013-03-07 07:48

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed!
+10chars

AMD	2013-03-07 07:53

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed :) I hope Elop doesn't act like a dick and ignores it..

MK99	2013-03-07 08:23

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Signed, shared, tweeted... :)

BlinkThinks

2013-03-07 08:48

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucazz990 (Post 1325728)

So the main problems are: battery drop, calendar, sms and stock apps! Anything more to add?

Can't connect to wireless-A only mode network.

Bug 378

I signed your petition yesterday BTW.

rainisto

2013-03-07 09:19

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlinkThinks (Post 1327419)

Can't connect to wireless-A only mode network.

Bug 378

this is also something that I dont understand, it's clearly stated that only place to report bugs is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Commu...p?220-Nokia-N9

If you enter enything to harmattan-bugs, its just ignored, since there are _0_ Nokia employees reading that bugzilla. So why are people adding comments to closed and abandoned bugzilla? If there are critical defects that you want fixed, you should report them in that forum and not in bugzilla (and even then it will be most likely ignored unless it's really critical).

don.edri

2013-03-07 09:41

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

signed, crossing my fingers for it to work

herpderp

2013-03-07 09:52

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMD (Post 1327411)

Signed :) I hope Elop doesn't act like a dick and ignores it..

Well, keep on with the optimism!

500 people are sure easier to ignore than for example 3126 people or even 3468 peope!

As you see this petitioning Nokia to do something about Meego is not a new thing. Even this one has more "signatures" than the current one.

Especially are funny reading the comments on the last one, things like

"I'm also getting my next phone from Intel with MeeGo."

Hilarious!

AMD	2013-03-07 09:55

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327431)

Yea.. But what if Elop does the expected? We all know he is a dickhead..

herpderp

2013-03-07 10:01

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMD (Post 1327432)

Yea.. But what if Elop does the expected? We all know he is a dickhead..

As I said... Keep on dreaming! :)

Lucazz990

2013-03-07 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327431)

Right, but these petition ask nokia to change their mind and keep meego or something similar, here we ask to fix some critical bugs... It's different, it's not a crazy request... Actually the craziest thing is the need to ask for this imho...

AMD	2013-03-07 10:36

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

I agree with Lucazz990, keeping MeeGo is really an awesome request yet impossible. Despite Nokia going for Windows Phone, we will only ask them for a simple request which is bug fixing not more. Keeping MeeGo will turn the whole thing around and hiring back the Maemo team, and most of them are now in Jolla. And this team, I am sure that they won't accept to go back to Nokia since the went their own way now. And till that happens, Nokia will be REALLY late for their work.. Which won't help at all. So I think asking them for simple bug fixing might do the job since we have no other choice..

herpderp

2013-03-07 10:42

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucazz990 (Post 1327438)

I agree that it's crazy that you have to ask for support. On the other hand, it's also pretty crazy you expect they will do anything about it, considering the ROI is 0.

Their recent actions also show they drifted as far as possible from the OSS world.

pishta74

2013-03-07 11:43

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucazz990 (Post 1327263)

I thought it was better to focus on requesting some bug fixing because they are "more" due than features... So it's more likely to happen (if only it could happen :P)

I'm not such a pessimist :)

Lucazz990

2013-03-07 14:20

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327442)

I agree that it's crazy that you have to ask for support. On the other hand, it's also pretty crazy you expect they will do anything about it, considering the ROI is 0.

I know, but give it a try is not a big effort for anyone... as it is not for nokia to do something :)

zapotek

2013-03-07 14:36

Re: [PETITION TO NOKIA] Bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bharateeyudu (Post 1326870)

That's weird... maybe it's just my N9! :(

no you are correct the same think happens with my both N9 16-64G version

herpderp

2013-03-07 14:47

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucazz990 (Post 1327466)

I know, but give it a try is not a big effort for anyone... as it is not for nokia to do something :)

You obviously have no idea how complicated the process is for a simple bugfix in big corporations like Nokia.

Lucazz990

2013-03-07 15:09

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327470)

You obviously have no idea how complicated the process is for a simple bugfix in big corporations like Nokia.

Actually no, i have absolutely no experience in developing an O.S. and related bug fixing , but it's not my (or your) problem! We are users... Nokia did it and nokia should fix it if and when necessary, very simple imo. Of course I know it's quite impossible to get anything...

herpderp

2013-03-07 15:36

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucazz990 (Post 1327476)

Actually no, i have absolutely no experience in developing an O.S. and related bug fixing , but it's not my (our your) problem! We are users... Nokia did it and nokia should fix it if and when necessary, very simple imo. Of course I know it's quite impossible to get anything...

You are spot on about the fact that the should fix obvious bugs.

However, fixing a bug in operation is just so costly it's pretty hard to believe:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/V92E0.png

Source: Software Engineering Economics by Barry Boehm

hw9xx

2013-03-07 17:46

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327442)

I agree that it's crazy that you have to ask for support. On the other hand, it's also pretty crazy you expect they will do anything about it, considering the ROI is 0.

The ROI for supporting their existing products in a normal way would be that people will buy their future products too. If Nokia does not invest into its users their return will certainly go to someone else in the future ... at least mine will.

juiceme

2013-03-07 17:57

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327480)

You are spot on about the fact that the should fix obvious bugs.

However, fixing a bug in operation is just so costly it's pretty hard to believe:

<clip>

Source: Software Engineering Economics by Barry Boehm

Not to mention the fact that this graph represents the situation where the considered system is under active maintanance.

The situation with Nokia & Harmattan is unfortunately worse, as the responsible people have left the house, and I assume that all r&d infrastructure has been dismantled.

Consider this:

The source code may not be available in any usable form; even if it is stored in some repository the meaningful way to build it into packages may be lost
The toolchains and EE (Engineering Environment) is propably lost, has been dismantled and is no longer recoverable
The automatic test environment (servers, scripts, test cases, etc) has been dismantled and is no longer recoverable
all the other things I cannot even imagine

In pure mathematics there never exists statistical propabilities that equal zero, only propabilities that get infinitely closer and closer to zero. On that context, chances of Nokia delivering bug fixes is far from zero, really much better than chances of the sun becoming nova tomorrow but I would not hold my breath waiting for it :D

hw9xx

2013-03-07 17:57

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327470)

You obviously have no idea how complicated the process is for a simple bugfix in big corporations like Nokia.

No, he probably doesn't. But then he doesn't need to because the complexity of the process is Nokia's problem and not his. He paid for a working product and not for a complicated process.

herpderp

2013-03-07 18:33

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw9xx (Post 1327492)

There are so little of "us" N9 users that it's just not worth it at all.

For example, giving away a 1000 Lumias at this point is infinitely cheaper and will attract more positive mindshare than fixing some bugs in a product that is not actively supported, and has a few hundred users begging for it tops.

Also see juiceme's post about all the problems with just getting started with it.

hw9xx

2013-03-07 19:43

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327502)

There are so little of "us" N9 users that it's just not worth it at all.

I wasn't so much talking about the N9 but about the attitude in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327502)

For example, giving away a 1000 Lumias at this point is infinitely cheaper and will attract more positive mindshare than fixing some bugs in a product that is not actively supported, and has a few hundred users begging for it tops.

If that was true then I really wonder why Nokia doesn't simply offer a Lumia 920 to anyone who suffers for example the fatal flaw of the 4% bug. Not that I'd consider that a valid solution, but at least I could respect the intention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1327502)

Also see juiceme's post about all the problems with just getting started with it.

Oh for gods sake stop ridiculing yourselves in public! I mean the community does stuff like CSSU and you're trying to make people believe a proper Nokia engineer would be at a total loss when trying to diagnose what's wrong with a couple of thousand lines of code?

herpderp

2013-03-07 19:47

Re: [PLEASE JOIN] Petition for bug fixing for N9

Quote:

Originally Posted by hw9xx (Post 1327519)

Jesus man... I've been developing applications for the past 20 years, so please tell me about how simple it is.

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