Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

You have my sympathy, but why not offer both options then?

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Because then you end up with having to deal with two different UI designs, two different screen sizes, two different notification systems.

But even if you've 20/20 vision I still think the current UI design is better than a status bar.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

What do you expect to see on the lock screen?

Why do you want to constantly have in view battery level or signal strength, even the time? You might loose few pixels in portrait mode, but in landscape mode that part is not negligible. The LED is used to notify for pending events.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

There is now an application that uses a clever has to display upcoming calendar events on the lock screen (by editing the ambiance image):
http://mihlit.cz/jolla/calendarbience/screenshot2.jpg

At least Gnome 3 (Gnome Shell) has a quite prominent status menu (language, connectivity status, sound level, battery level) and even triggers a quick-access settings menu after clicking on it. :)

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I beg to disagree. Excluding the battery, those things do not interest me one bit while everything's working. Only when something isn't working I take a look at them trying to figure out what's wrong.
What comes to the battery, I don't want to see every 1% draining. Instead, I need to have a rough estimate once in a while if I have enough juice for the rest of the day. The percentage does not even work that well in this regard but it's better than nothing.

If you can learn to live without glancing the status all the time, I'd like to say the stuff in the status bar is not that crucial, after all. Or did I understand something wrong?

"Optimal UI" is a can of worms... I believe this thread already proves a point.

Often (not always) having more options is better. In this case, if we would have a setting switch for showing a status bar or not, what would happen to the apps? Would they need to be scaled? Would they lose pixels up or down? Sorry, but I just don't see this happening anyway sensibly.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

So do we have an expected date yet? Now over a year old and still items missing that we saw on pre-release demos.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

It's funny how community eat anything they are feeded with ;)
People complained for bad notifications and waste of lock screen space for a while now. (even simple date on lock screen is not hard to do, is it?)
But so called "together", "we listen", "be a part of..." policy they use for PR — force people to change wallpapers to add something to lock screen.
Now tell me again how is android is bad and less opensourced :)

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

And about updates. It's funny how people here said that Jolla releasing so many updates, but never pay attention what kind of updates are those. Most of the time after the phone release the OS state was beta, so surely they had to make updates to get out of beta(in my opinion it's still way beta, but they say different). And most updates are bug fixes and we still have a lot of bugs (netwrok problems from first day till now FFS). And yet with telling how many updates they are making every month and a lot of noise about it we had 8 public updates in more than 2 years now. yes it's more than maemo/meego got from nokia. But on other hand why we always compare with bad examples, why we do not check as well that few maemo/meego updates were more heavy updates. So i'm not sure how you compare those, but it would not fair to tell Nokia did less :)
They just never finish what they start. they promise something and change plans, switch to something else. And if you ask why - the answer you get : "it's also business". But from when the business is to promise and run away? It's only one when you want to make money and run away. In long term you need to respect your customer and do not start thousand things you can't finish, so you can tell us later "but we are small group of people". We already got it, but did you get that if you don't have enough resources, finish things you started before asking for more money on new projects you will never finish.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Nothing. I want to do away with it :)

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

@ZogG first of all you comparing nokia product made by thousands developers with jolla made by just one hundred of developers.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Agree, I just don't see the point of it. The fact that it holds no useful information only makes matter worse.

@ZogG I share your frustrations. The updates so far have just made the device usable, but I would not call it a smart phone yet. The Jolla=unlike is just not true. It's Jollla=Justlike in my opinion.

As for people pointing out Nokia and the N9 update frequency, yes MeeGo on the N9 only had 3 updates but it was far more usable out of the box and had a paid app store from the outset so it is not a fair comparison.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

@ZogG yes and no! we are in the same boat with Jolla at the moment and we all know that there is a narrow window to success/safety.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

And all those thousand worked on N9? right?
or was it small groups (yes maybe with more resources) working on maemo and after on meego, while most others worked on symbian/other nokia products? Or i missed maemo/meego being first priority/main product of nokia at any point?

And again, as i said, we got that they are small group, they did not, as they keep promising and starting so many products they do not finish, and they they use excuse of "we are small".
Being ambitious is one thing, being light-head running forward without thinking thru or knowing your resources is being stupid.

in case you don't get it, translation, just for you with ♥:
Мы то поняли, что они маленькая компания. А они видимо не понимают, потому обещают золотые горы и начинают по сто проектов, которые не могут довести до ума, чтоб потом опять таки отмызаться, что их мало.
Одно дело иметь амбиции, другое бежать вперед не подумав и не оценив свои ресурсы (быть дурачком).

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

yeap. you are the resources of boat and they use you as they want with not sharing with you any information what and how it's going. Which can be fine for a small time, but after phone release situation did not change and they asking for more money for tablet saying it is open source, while it is not. Same was told on parts of OS on phone and nothing changed after 2 years.
Btw they said sorry for that on IRC, but no official statement on site, answer on TJC, as it might ruine their image (not first time they keep silent on things they can't answer, so much for "making together table").

Now surely, you are on the same boat, the problem that if it starts sinking, crew will left and maybe start new project promising even more "blackjack and hookers", but you'll be left on that boat till you get to the bottom of the sea :)

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

@ZogG I've been thrown twice in the sea (N900, N9) and I survived, I do enjoy sailing on small boats to boring cruise ships.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I want Jolla to succeed as much as anyone. But at the same time I have to agree with @Zog. I dont have the luxury of owing two phones. I just want a working everyday phone and Jolla is not making things easy. I have contributed to Tablet, but still would be happy (and may be contribute more) if only Jolla team gave me a WORKING, STABLE, EVERYDAY phone. And I am not even asking for a SMARTPHONE!!! Just one without call drops, auto restarts or network issues.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Team Jolla, dont test the patience of your supporters!!!

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Sure, Android is open source. If you count half of the OS that hasn't been updated in literally years (last I checked, the AOSP music player is still exactly the same as it was in Android 2.3), but instead has been made into proprietary Google (tm) (r) (c) apps, as open source. Don't confuse Android with AOSP, and don't think AOSP is even remotely up to date or usable without having to add anything to it.

How do you edit your Android lockscreen? How do you use a different UI in Android? How do you even do anything in Android without having to resort to security holes to install superuser?

If you complain about one thing being **** in comparison with something else, at least first make sure that other thing isn't just as ****, if not more.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

@meet.vino, how do you define a SMARTPHONE, and which criteria of that smartphone the Jolla phone is failing?

I have not experienced restarts with my phone.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Have I got a weird device? My lock screen shows the date, time, notifications, carrier, battery level...

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Sorry to hear about your issues. Just for the record wanted to mention that I consider my Jolla as working, stable and everyday useable.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Again I have to wonder when I read such posts... I have a working, stable, everyday phone from Jolla. A smartphone even. I've never had call drops in my life, not with any phone I've used so far... Nokia, HTC, Samsung, whatever... and now Jolla. (OK, wrong, I do experience call drops: When I'm on the train and we're entering a tunnel.)

There are no restarts (I had one on the Samsung last week, though) and the one bug I experienced with networking seems to be fixed now.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Lol, superuser? There droid with root out of box, as far as i know you can at least flash some devices, and yes you can get source - https://github.com/CyanogenMod
And again no one forced jolla to talk about OSS or being OSS if they are not. You can compare with what you want, but as they used fake promises for PR, and we can get/have root on many android devices out-of-box/with few clicks. So just giving root with phone with sudden reboots and network failures don't make it more open ;)

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I have to wonder what some people are doing too. I've had no networking issues since about update 2 IIRC when it used to stack up 'Problem with connection' errors.

I've never had a restart, though I did find a bug a couple of weeks back with cutting text from fingerterm which restarts the launcher. That's the closest I've gotten.

The two things I'd still like to see fixed though are still a workable CalDAV/CardDAV implementation and SIP. That gets me back to N9 levels of smartphone features. I'd love to see decent native mapping but frankly Nokia's HERE Android app works well enough that that is no longer an issue.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I'm so bored of the same ******** everytime. Can the haters just please leave and let us alone? We heard your rants so many times already, we don't need to hear it again and again. Just leave if you don't like how it is.

If you want to improve it, join OSS or community meetings from Jolla. The loudest people in here I never see there. I also don't see anyone contributing in open parts. So you are just interested in trolling and being poisonous.

EOD

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Morpog. Just relax. you are such a fanboy. Love your style but its not healthy for you. Just surf the wave!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpsarwbIEAAKGwJ.jpg

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Yes, very strange. I get carrier, time and WiFi strength. Nothing else.

For me what is missing as a smart phone is:-
Video recorder that has half decent sound
Notifications screen
Sat nav
Skype
Voice commands
MS Exchange that works
Native apps
...

Exciting things that have failed to materialize.
Jolla OTHs
Links with companies "hinted " in February
A company that shares information with its customers
Bug tracker


Worthy of mention, despite Jolla
Led OTH
Keyboard OTH
Friends
Tweetian
emoji keyboard
Mika.... (Whatsapp app)
And others who make apps and rely on donations.


All in all very disappointing. I feel the phone has been ditched in favour of the tablet and monthly updates are now nearly half yearly.

What I so unlike now?

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I'm not against criticism, but it has to have a serious foundation.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Yeah, CyanogenMod. Not Android, not AOSP, but CyanogenMod. Let me just go to the shop and buy a phone with CyanogenMod on it - oh wait, I can't. Installing an aftermarket firmware on a phone isn't really what I would call 'a few clicks', and is not something I see anyone doing just like that. You can compare Google's Android and Jolla's Sailfish OS, but if you want to compare CyanogenMod with something, it's Mer Project and nothing else.

By the way, adding passive aggressive emoticons to your statements doesn't give them any more value.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

And there lies the major issue. Sailfish has to appeal to the masses for Jolla to succeed. At the moment it feels like a hobbyist experiment. I am not a programmer or app developer, I just wanted to support something that I saw was different and promised to communicate with its customers and be unlike.

Hey if you think this is trolling and poisonous fine. I think it is constructive criticism because I want to see Jolla succeed and someone has to be able to say the "Emporer is wearing no clothes".

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Life is serious... Jolla, TMO and WWW is a play ground don't let stuff get to you.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3678/9...bb5e64d2_z.jpg

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

You are clearly thinking in the wrong dimesnions. SailfishOS can never compete with Android or iOS, or even Windows phone / BBOS for years. They are serving a small niche that want something different and not the same stuff as all others do. That niche seems to grow a bit lately, as people get bored with same stuff in different clothes since years.

This is a small 120+ people company doing an OS, phone and tablet, marketing, sales, lawyers, etc. It's insane if you ever compare it to other big grown OS'es with multi national corporations behind them and hundreds of smaller companys supporting them / codeveloping.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Say this words in front of a mirror.

Pleople here know very well the details about each Sailfish update. As Jolla really the details of each upgrade.

Well :
- all OS (incluing desktop OS and mobile OS) updates have a large number of bug fixes, and a smaller number of new features. Any large software project has these features, so that there are even updates which are only bug fix updates, taking months to be concluded. If this is strange for you, you seem to don't know anything about large software projects with hundreds or thousands of thousands of source lines do code. I recommend to subscribe to some large open source project mail list and see the work of hundreds of developers to release a "simple" bug fix release after 1-3 months of work;
- if you say Sailfish OS is a beta mobile OS, then I also can say that Android 5 & iOS 8 are also beta mobile OS, as they don't have the features I want, which where available in some mobile OS 12-16 years ago;
- Sailfish OS has many features Android, iOS, WP, etc, don't have at all. If you want to ignore them, it is your right to do so.

Well, you even don't know how to count... There are 10 Sailfish updates since 09/12/2013, i.e., 10 updates in 12 months, well above any other mobile OS. I have all of them, relese number, date, and change log file.

Respect like you "respect" Sailfish users here ???

If you care to read the change log of each release, you can see Jolla developers implementing a lot of new features, including some suggested by the community in TJC, including some features never seen in other mobile OS. Jolla also shows what the new Sailfish update will have in terms of features and bug fixes, with an estimated release. Yes, estimated, if you ever really know what is to develop a large software project, you should know how difficult it is to have certainty about an exactly release date.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Exactly what I wanted to say! I am not against Jolla. Like bockersjv, I am not not a programmer or app developer, I just wanted to support something that I saw was different. I tried my best and got a used Jolla from someone in Finland in February, way before it was officially launched in India paying almost three times what it cost when it was officially launched. ONLY BECAUSE I FELT IT WAS A GAME CHANGER!! Any feature comparisons with other phones I dealt with saying that it was only time before Jolla had a better way of implementing it! And I am still mocked at when I have call drops, and believe me people, I DO HAVE CALL DROPS and RESTARTS when the signal strength is not strong. I opted in for Uitukka believing that it would resolve all the issues, but that was not to be. I am still hopeful that the nest update would resolve things, but the way it is getting postponed, I am becoming tired of it!

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

meet.vino try the paper battery trick and clean your battery contacts. Since I added the paper it's very stable. I never had a single call drop and I'm a first one customer. so first batch of devices.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Morpog, I did that a long time ago and the restarts reduced drastically for a couple of months. But after updating to Uitukka, its started again. Just imagine you having you Jolla in your pant pockets, u can hear the phone ring, and before you can take it out, the ring stops and you find your phone restarting. Now imagine the same thing happening with a few colleagues of yours, especially those who have been mocking you for buying a phone they haven't heard of yet. Another chance for them to take a dig at you!! Can you now feel my frustration?!! And to rub salt into my wounds, I tried putting my phone on silent mode, the vibrator wont work. Now before you tell me to enable heptic feedback, I have it turned on!

I am not a HATER! I want Jolla to succeed, all I ask is give me a solid product before you plan for the next one.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Seriously ?!?!? Why don't you :
- read the Jolla's statements about Sailfish is an unique mobile OS, so Sailfish OS 2.0 will be for smartphone and tablet ?
- read that Jolla work is 90% in software development ?
- count that there were 2-4 (2 large updates, 2 bug/hotfix updates) Sailfish updates since July ? 5.38 months / 2 = 2.69 months between updates, 5.38 months / 4 = 1.35 , both numbers well below 6 months between updates ?

You, I know, but I write because otherwise somebody will read your words and think Sailfish is just some Android variant. Sailfish/Jolla is unlike because :
- it has live miniature views of 4/9 (covers in home screen) running sotwares, like Maemo 5, MeeGo Harmattan, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it has many desktop Linux features, like shell (bash, etc), GNU utilities, repositories and dependencies (so libraries and softwares are reused by other softwares), many programming languages (C/C++, Python, etc, which you can use on device), Terminal, etc, without any need of third-party software, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it was the first mobile OS to have Qt 5, Qt Quick 2, Wayland, and it continues to be so, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it supports Jolla Other Half covers, with in/out electrical connections (I2C communication, etc), totally unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- etc.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Thank you. With that post you have convinced me, and probably a few other non developer/technical users, that we are clearly in the wrong place.

I had hopes and expectations which you have well and truly crushed. I am unworthy to drink at the Jolla alter as I am not technical enough and will return to the product for the masses.

I will take away with me a fantastic couple days in Helsinki, some great people who made owning an N9 and N900 such a great club and the realisation that I should not mess with small start ups.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

I disagree. Jolla focus is not to reach a niche user base at all.

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions
 

Does it mean that it is only for geeks and not for common man who want to use the phone mostly for calling, taking pictures, may be listen to a few songs and browse the internet?

Of all the things mentioned here, only taking pictures and listening to songs is something I would say is fine. Call drops is an ugly thing (may be only a few unlucky ones like me experience going by so many being surprised that it is happening) and browsing the internet is something most would agree is not an experience you could truly be satisfied with.

So what good is a phone to a layman with all the " desktop Linux features, like shell (bash, etc), GNU utilities, repositories and dependencies (so libraries and softwares are reused by other softwares), many programming languages (C/C++, Python, etc, which you can use on device), Terminal, etc, without any need of third-party software, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it was the first mobile OS to have Qt 5, Qt Quick 2, Wayland, and it continues to be so, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it supports Jolla Other Half covers, with in/out electrical connections (I2C communication, etc), totally unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;" if it doesn't do what a basic phone is supposed to do?