Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Motorola Droid 4 has LTE working only in North America only so adding support for more LTE bands in the face of plans of 2G network shutdowns and cutting down 3G bandwidth would be in my opinion a significant benefit.

As for Moto Z - it seems to be more a phablet than the average smartphone so having a bit smaller device (~5" ?) might encourage also those who do not prefer big devices.

The next alternative (not mentioned here) - Motorola Photon Q has built-in on motherboard SIM card so to use it out of USA Sprint needs soldering in the SIM slot which is not acceptable for many of the potential customers. LTE doesn't work outside of the North America too.

Beside that, newer Android versions are getting heavier and heavier so improvement in CPU/GPU/RAM would always be welcome for the potential consumers (even though the custom ROMs for the existing devices are still being released).

There seems to be some niche. Not sure how big, though.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Thank you Dave! I appreciate that! Yes they are indeed very expensive, to get an industrial standard product with the top spec and quality and unique features it needs a huge amount of invest. To give you an idea a mediocre MTK mid-end bar phone without OS work will cost probably half a million USD investment. We are using Qualcomm, with the best parts I can get, and with a slider. This is why I am trying to save money everywhere.

I have kicked off mechanical engineering work. Also will publish complete detailed specs soon. (No TM here, I'm just check for a few availabilities of components, and evaluating how much better we can achieve...)

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I hold my opinion here:

Even with Android, HW keyboard does have a lot use, for example, under Android 7's split screen, with on screen keyboard it's almost useless because your on-screen keyboard would block almost both contents, but with HW keyboard user can type in one app while look at another, like typing while reading web, this is a huge difference.

And HW keyboard is more accurate and without the fluff of autocorrection, and free up screen content. To me it make a phone phone.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I know it's just a dream but having something like Blackberry's touch enabled keyboard would be amazing :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c30sSM1Ulc

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Don't forget notification led and FM-transmitter! What is your timetable? I mean projects are usually delayed.. for example http://www.puzzlephone.com/blog-read...ng-episode-ii/

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Another thing is that if the keyboard is touch sensitive (not sure that it is) you could use that to scroll up and down on an app without blocking the view.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Yuck. Give me proper buttons any day :)

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

What I meant by that is what the BB keyboard is like, they are physical buttons, but you can stroke them to scroll up and down on the display.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Like the blackberry nipple thing? I had a BB curve and the damn thing wouldn't stop scrolling up and to the right. And that was quite a high end product that must have undergone lots of testing. I wouldn't near anything like it again.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

No. The keys register swipes up and down. It's actually done quite well and rather unobtrusive to regular typing. No extra hardware required.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

https://youtu.be/nCwyBPuYK6g?t=167

From my understanding, the buttons have a capacitive touch layer on them.
So there is extra hw required. :p

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

So it's just a normal keyboard with something extra implemented in software?

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I suppose those horizontal bars might matter and do work like a touchpad.
It would be hard, expensive to implement such on every one key.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Thanks, I get it now. Never seen one in real life before!

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

If that was the case, wouldn't the smooth circular movements, in the video, i linked above, be impossible to realise, considering these big gaps between the horizontal bars?

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Hard to say.
On the other hand, paying attention to the fact that some broken displays even with falling out pieces of glass do work it might be similar capacitive technology as in the screens. So it might use not only those bars.
Either way, thanks for the note.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Good, as this seems to be the only viable choice today, especially regarding hardware support (device drivers) in upstream Linux (= kernel).

For the choice of operating system(s) there are basically only two open sourced "survivors":

1. "Android"
- Google's Android (i.e. "stock Android" *from* Google) is out of reach for a project of this size, IMO. BTW, is this what you called "GMS Android"? And it contains a lot of proprietary components, binding its users to Google services.
- AOSP (Android open source project) is Google's code drop of their Android releases with all proprietary components stripped and some of them substituted by old (open source) ones. It does not deliver, what a regular user expects.
- LineageOS is based on AOSP and adds substitutes for some of the missing / outdated components in order to suit regular users (and they are doing that well).
- BTW, AlienDalvik (by MyriadGroup), which can be licensed along SailfishOS, is also based on (older releases of) AOSP.

2. Nemo mobile / Mer / SailfishOS
- Nemo mobile is based on Mer ("Meego reconstructed"), which is the successor of Meego, which in turn is the successor of Maemo (well, simplified; for details, see Wikipedia). It also is not suitable for regular users, e.g. lacking a finished mobile GUI.
- SailfishOS is also based on Mer and provides (in contrast to Nemo) a proprietary, proper "mobile" GUI, plus the optional integration of AlienDalvik.

All other options are dead (Ubuntu Touch, MozillaOS, WebOS etc.) or dying (e.g. Tizen).

As most people want to run Android apps, but also many people want an alternative to Android, there are really only two options:
a. Dual-Boot with LineageOS and SailfishOS (the latter maybe optionally due to license costs)
b. SailfishOS with AlienDalvik ("single boot")
... and the combination of both:
c. Dual-Boot with LineageOS and SailfishOS with AlienDalvik
*Edit:* Other people added,
d. Preinstalled with LineageOS, which is replaceable by a SailfishOS image ("single boot"), with (d1.) or without (d2.) AlienDalvik.

Note, that a properly working dual-boot setup can be a challenge of its own (technically *and* WRT usability), thus primarily perusing b. or d[1|2]. makes most sense, IMO.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Great summary, although I would conclude with d. LineageOS by default, with an easy way to install Sailfish. Dualboot out of the box would be cool, but is there any well known precedent there?

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Problem with Dualboot is that, even though Multirom exists and works well, IIRC it's not available for Android >6.0 and thus LineageOS.

I'd go for LineageOS & easy to install Sailfish.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

lol. I meant that old BB nub thing. I hated that thing something fierce. Felt like you were pushing around an old eraser head.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Great wrap up olf.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Assuming that the device will be released with Android OS (AOSP, LineageOS, etc.) what version of Android (number) would it be shipped with?

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

This. This is so important. Mainlining kernel support of mobile chipsets should be as important as developing vaccines for lethal diseases. But unfortunately not as much talked about. We will never get our OS of choice and freedom and flexibility for users until we have a chipset with drivers in the kernel.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Here is the specs of this device. This is not a fanboy dream - we already have working - stablised - debugged solution. It's real.

This is also not 100% confirmed and subject to further change. But this is what we are working at the moment.

The Livermorium "Pocket PC" Lauta-revival project:

SoC: Qualcomm MSM8953 64-bit 14nm

We decided to choose a mid-tier instead of flagship SoC because:
- It's very expensive to get the flagship components with small quantity
- The flagship solution itself is very expensive
- Most of the time it's over powered and waste battery
- MSM8953 is very power efficient and also have great performance

Display: 5.5" FHD 1080p IPS, Capacitive, 2.5D glass

The reason choose 5.5 over 5.0:
- More "compatible" with Moto Keyboard Mod's slider part, same size, less work
- More space on keypad, means bigger keys and more keys
- Bigger battery

Camera:
Front 8MP
Rear Dual 13MP+13MP (RGB+Monochrome)

Some of the best we can get at the moment.

Storage: 64GB ROM +4GB RAM

Keyboard: 5 Rows slider similar to Moto Keyboard Mod, screen can be lifted.

BT4.1, WiFi 802.11 b/g/n and 5GHz, GPS/Beidou/Glonass/Galileo
USB Type-C with OTG, 3.5mm jack, MicroSD, Dual Sim, IR

Quad LTE bands + Quad WCDMA bands + Quad GSM bands.
One version for NA and one version for EU

Sensors: Gravity, Proximity, E-compass, Gyroscope, optional fingerprint

Unlocked bootloader

Battery 3500mAH

Regarding OS, from all the great suggestions, here is the plan:

- Sailfish OS (will try to make it happen)
- Lineage OS or GMS-Android (for general users who just want a physical keyboard)
- A third OS? I will also support any individual/orgnisation who wants to develop OS other than above.

Above is the plan. More updates will be posted later.

================

Update: This is NOT the Q-Device.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

yahoo
count me in

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

As long as there's a non-android option, I'm in. I've not seen or tried Lineage OS, but mainstream android devices leave me cold.

Regardless, this is fantastic work Chen, and I wish you all the success you deserve for your efforts.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

This sounds REALLY good. Hoping for it to not be too expensive

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Thank you - I hated Android. Kept that option is just for mainstream sales, and support for my plans for the future.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

USB-C OTG, IR, 64 GB + micro SD (good to have plenty of space for multiple OSes), compass, quad band. http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/wark0.gif

Unlocked bootloader and multiple OS options planned including Sailfish (if possible). http://forum-images.hardware.fr/imag.../warkcolor.gif

As promised, count me in for two devices already I think (well, we'll see the price, but that's my plan). 5.5" will make one-hand gestures absolutely impossible though, and I have to purchase new jeans with bigger pockets. :D

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Will the Jolla version be named jPhone? YouYotaSail? Or have you decided name? YouYotaPhone. YYP. YyP. YouYotaDreamMachine.

Btw. Love the green dance machine in post above :D

MeanGreenMachine.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

So, ironically, SoC is the same with Moto Z Play. I already have SailfishOS booting on it (want to get more of hardware working before I publish the port though).

It should be more or less similar then in terms of porting, so we can (at bare minimum) have unofficial port (without Android support).

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I don't mean to criticize the choice of 5.5" because I know it's the result of several constraints, and the device looks awesome, really (and 4.5" would be too awesome for my little heart), but I think bigger size of keys should not necessarily be a goal per se. More keys is good, but fewer keys can be pretty good as well if very well integrated in the OS (like N900 key combinations + onscreen special character keyboard).

Bigger keys and more space between them is typically thought as a good thing since we are the most comfortable with bigger, real-size keyboards. However, this keyboard will most likely be used with thumbs only, and not flat on a desk with 10-finger typing. For thumb-typing, larger keys/larger keyboards means more distance to cover with the thumbs, and I don't know what is the optimum size considering variation among people's hands, but seeing that I was more comfortable typing on the N900 than the TOHKBD and mistyped keys more often with the latter, I believe it's not huge.

However, again, I understand that there are multiuple factors leading you to 5.5", and I'll still happily give you all the money I can give you. :D

[Edit] Excellent news TheKit. Still holding my breath for an official Sailfish license with AD included, but it's good to know that ports would not start from scratch.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Me the moment i read MSM8953 knowing that TheKit is already on it

https://media.giphy.com/media/l5DQkB29oKck8/giphy.gif

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I tried to estimate the size by taking a 5.5" phone and hold it like tohkbd/n900. It is no problem to reach everywhere with both thumbs but we will see when Moto KBD is available to try out.

Very good decision to save work and effectively "slap" a new phone onto the already constructed Moto Mod Kbd :D

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I'm not the first one actually, there is a port for Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 (based on LOS13).

Official SailfishOS ports are usually based on AOSP, but chenliangchen will have access to full Android tree anyway.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Wow that sounds like a plan, man :)
Any estimate on the time-frame you are targetting with this project to release?

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

SailingChen

@topic

I'm not really a fan of 2.5D glass.

Edit: I'm not a fan, because screen protectors won't hold onto our precious device.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

That's a good point, but it's quite nice in combination with a gesture based OS.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

Is the mentioned screen used in some other devices?
If so, that would mean an availability of the spare parts.

Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 

I would assume so, I think Chen plans on reusing as many parts as he can off the pre-existing market for this first Livermorium phone iteration, but confirmation would be nice. Provided that the screen glass is widely available/replaceable, I like the curved edges as well. It was great on N9, and even the best screen protectors don't feel as good as bare glass.