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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Official specs of Jolla phone surface (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91408)

switch-hitter 2013-10-03 16:50
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkumaru (Post 1378350)
You guys are funny :p N9's keyboard was AMONG THE BEST virtual keyboard there is to exist. I rarely have mistakes, heck, I can even type without looking :p iPhone iOS 7's keyboard was a little better, Android's is just horrible.
I quite like Android's keyboard, way better than my old iPhone's (although the issue there may have been the tiddly screen). Android's pretty good at guessing the next word too which saves a lot of time.

qwazix 2013-10-03 19:56
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Native english speakers might appreciate a good prediction/correction engine, but for me it's the first thing I disable on a new phone. I type a lot non-words, technical jargon, or transliterated Greek on a keyboard and I just want to have what I typed, not what the phone thinks I did.

With the correction disabled, the N9 has the best keyboard because of it's nice haptics and ability to modify layouts, with BB10 coming second (because of no haptics, no dead keys -you have to longpress to type accented characters- and having always capital labels) and WP third. iPhone is distant 4th (inverted dead key sequence order - you have to type the dead key after the letter, wtf!) and second to last comes symbian which for some weird reason seems like having tiny keys on a 4" display, which is bigger than the N9. Last comes android which on anything smaller than 4" is unusable (upside is that you can choose your own vkb there).

mikecomputing 2013-10-03 20:03
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1378422)
Really? You think by having the output of free the limitation of 1GB RAM on the N9 can be covered? There is a reason things like FasterN9 exist. Let's not hide flaws and say 1gb is sufficient when the N9 has shown that on boot system libraries and apps/services itself take up 700MB of RAM.

Maybe Wayland brings down the RAM usage to achieve a UI of 60fps because this clearly failed on the N9. Want examples? Refresh your feeds and scroll the home screens; 10fps. Sync all mail accounts and minimise Fenix, try opening phone app etc.

The N900 has been limited among other things mainly by its 256MB RAM, the N9 as we understand now had to have a custom chip to get the 1GB of RAM required and now the Jolla is unfortunately again limited to 1GB of RAM. In an OS that is geared towards true multi tasking, the RAM is really important compared to Android etc.

Does that mean I won't get the Jolla? No, I still want it as it looks the best thing but I won't be surprised with the device being limited by RAM (again)...
Its upto the developers to learn code and use less resourses and free memory/CPU.

If apps eating to much memory they are often broken piece of ****. Thats why I personally dont use windows as an example.

In case of N9 eating to much memory/resources my guess is one of those is that damn tracker daemon.

I am suprised that Linux geeks this days also has gone nuts about HW specs. Probadly brainwatched by Android and the need of > 2Gb RAM on a mobile. Its plain ridiculous. Its a phone for got sake. My personal server has around 1Gb and works nicely. And now people needs 2Gb on a phone!?

Ofcourse if you use several crappy Android apps the 1Gb is not enought but main reason to buy an Jolla is not Android. Those people buying Jolla because of Android will be disapointed.

shanttu 2013-10-03 20:52
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
My two cents in discussion off RAM is based on my 4 years old Samsung N140. I upgraded RAM from 1gb to 2gb and it made no difference. My tasks are quite light, but that usage would be heavy when I operate with a smart phone. Ubuntu hardly ever takes even the 1gb. It's the Atom CPU that is limiting the performance on my netbook. I don't want to sound like a fanboy who is defending Jolla, but when discussing RAM usage I really cannot understand why some people just need moar specs.

pichlo 2013-10-03 21:18
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1378422)
Let's not hide flaws and say 1gb is sufficient when the N9 has shown that on boot system libraries and apps/services itself take up 700MB of RAM.
I agree it is a design flaw. The N9's that is. For using so much. The 1GB laptop I mentioned a few posts up used about 120MB on boot. I ran heavy applications on it like GIMP, DVD Author and LibreOffice and never used more than 500MB. So why does a phone need 700MB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1378426)
EDIT: I stand corrected... you have to use "top" to see the amount cached, for some reason it isn't implemented in free (or maybe if you use bash instead of bb).
This comes from my N900. Does N9's free look different?
Code:
BusyBox v1.21.1 (Debian 1.21.1power1+thumb0) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

~ $ free
            total        used        free      shared      buffers
Mem:        235252      229308        5944            0        2580
-/+ buffers:            226728        8524
Swap:      804856        86948      717908
~ $
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1378463)
(long and comprehensive comparison of various phones' virtual keyboards)
My WiFi password contains only basic 7-bit ASCII characters but includes such stumbling blocks as the pipe (|) and backquote (`). I had no problems typing the whole thing on two Android devices but a friend's iPhone was an epic fail. After half an hour we gave up trying to figure out how to type the backquote. I ended up sending the password to the phone by SMS.

Lumiaman 2013-10-04 00:39
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanttu (Post 1378467)
My two cents in discussion off RAM is based on my 4 years old Samsung N140. I upgraded RAM from 1gb to 2gb and it made no difference. My tasks are quite light, but that usage would be heavy when I operate with a smart phone. Ubuntu hardly ever takes even the 1gb. It's the Atom CPU that is limiting the performance on my netbook. I don't want to sound like a fanboy who is defending Jolla, but when discussing RAM usage I really cannot understand why some people just need moar specs.
You don't need more space. Lumia 620 works great on 512 RAM. But Jolla claims multitasking abilities. Well....if you want to truly multitask you need RAM. The more the better. 1gb is not enough, as seen on n9 and n900. Both times the devices were underpowered..

biatch0 2013-10-04 02:00
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
I like how some people take things literally when the intended message is obvious... but nevermind.

thedead1440 2013-10-04 05:03
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Mikecomputing,

Looks like you need a reading lesson because you keep spouting the same old about inefficient code when the two examples I gave you were of the system apps! Want more? Open 9 windows on grob, minimise them, receive a phone call and at the end of the phone call open contacts and attempt a message out. You see the fps dropping during the whole process! Want one more example? Search the forums and see posts of people complaining that when dpkg is installing something, all their running applications (sometimes only one or two are running) get closed. Know why? Because of out-of-memory... Want to keep blaming the poor coding still?


Pichlo, a desktop and a phone are different things. Why do we compare arm and x86 platforms RAM usage when the codes etc are different? Again I am not whining about 1GB of RAM but I am trying to illustrate to all those who keep saying 1GB is more than enough that the previous phone designed by the same team was limited by its RAM certainly and that was 2 years ago.

Now let's compare with the fruit phone. It doesn't have true multi tasking as we know hence it is able to allocate it's RAM usage better to foreground activities but on something like the N9 where you can exploit the full capabilities of the multi tasking OS, more than 1GB of RAM would make a huge difference...

pichlo 2013-10-04 05:39
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Sure, ARM is not x86, but six times more RAM on idle? I maintain that this is the N9's fault.

Edit: If you really want to compare like for like, then I suggets booting the N9 to Debian or Ubuntu if there is such an option and checking the RAM use then. I can't as I do not have the N9.

soryuuha 2013-10-04 06:35
Re: Official specs of Jolla phone surface
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1378506)
Sure, ARM is not x86, but six times more RAM on idle? I maintain that this is the N9's fault.
imho, n9 fault were the slow processor and slow swap memory...makes application stays in background much longer than it should.


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