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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

pichlo

2017-09-26 13:54

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1535209)

Dear lazyweb, have they ever explained why they start "selling" it before there's a chance to download it? I mean... why would anybody pay on Sept. 27th if I can as well pay on Oct 11th?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1535210)

From Jolla's perspective, <snip>

Precisely! Whenever you have a doubt about something, try to see it from the other side's perspective.

benny1967

2017-09-26 14:12

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1535210)

Many will be paying out of tablet refunds, others will be eager out of excitement or just to avoid issues on the 11th.

From Jolla's perspective, aside from getting money in early, they can deal with any issues on the payment side asap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1535211)

Precisely! Whenever you have a doubt about something, try to see it from the other side's perspective.

Yes, sure, it might make sense for Jolla (although not much, I guess) if it really works.

But I really wonder if anybody will pay in advance after the tabletgate and in a situation where paying in advance doesn't give you any advantage (that I know of).

Very strange. I'm not getting it. I'll use my credit card on Oct. 11th after I've read the first user stories. :)

lantern

2017-09-26 14:48

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Yeah, they could do an `early bird` special price.

olympus

2017-09-26 16:26

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

seems like we won't be buying it tomorrow :)

Quote:

Sailfish X: new flashing tool and new sales start day
Thanks again for your interest in Sailfish X and for subscribing to our mailing list!

There has been some very recent technical changes to the installation process of Sailfish X to Sony Xperia X. Sony has presented a new way of flashing software on their devices, which will bring us (and you) new opportunities for the installation, e.g. Windows flashing. Process-wise we need to take some time to test everything properly.

Because of the recent developments and testing needs, we have decided to change the Sailfish X sales start date by one week from September 27 to October 4. The postponing of the sales start does not change the target software release date, which remains at October 11.

We will provide you with more details closer to the sales start!

Kind Regards,
Jolla Team

jukk	2017-09-26 17:03

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by olympus (Post 1535220)

Windows flashing

How embarassing. Using Windows to flash Linux. So people struggle to get a phone with Linux that hardly works, but can't bother to use Linux on the desktop, that is free, works any day to install on a PC, can be used for anything (no problem with bluetooth or double-tapping or anything). Give me a break. Why do people need the phone so bad when they ALSO could have all those wonders on the desktop.

Ok, I'm not evil. Let the poor bastards have it.... :D

deprecated

2017-09-26 17:26

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukk (Post 1535222)

Right there with you. If you can't be arsed to try, then you shouldn't expect a reliable alternative platform.

This day and age, there is literally no excuse for not having a Linux box if you're even the least bit interested in the prospect of something like Sailfish OS. Just makes good sense.

Edit: not to mention, it's actually easier to unlock the bootloader and prep the device in even a basic Linux distribution like Ubuntu. I tried the procedure in Windows 10, and it was a nightmare. Went through 6 different driver revisions before fastboot detected my F5121. Went to my primary workstation (Arch Linux) and it worked immediately, without nonsense.

mosen

2017-09-26 17:37

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1535213)

But I really wonder if anybody will pay in advance after the tabletgate and in a situation where paying in advance doesn't give you any advantage (that I know of).

May i remind, there is a 20% discount so maybe they will sort those in the first week until delivery?

Quote:

For all of you former Community Device Program members we offer a 20% discount,i.e. the price for you is 39.90€ (including VAT). We’ll let you know how you can claim this discount closer to the sales start.

mariusmssj

2017-09-26 17:41

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Having windows support is great!!! The more inclusive this process is the better it will be for more people :) For example I love Linux but sadly at home my laptop (work owned) as PC is windows based due to work :( And having this option is quite good with people in similar position to me.

purrcatian

2017-09-26 17:55

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1535226)

Windows costs ~$100, Linux is free. Not costing a huge amount of money seems more inclusive to me, especially since the linked Sony tool *only* runs on Windows.

acrux

2017-09-26 18:00

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

So, there is a fresh post at blog.jolla.com: https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-new-sales-start-day/
1. However - following the link "new way of flashing": https://developer.sonymobile.com/ope...es/flash-tool/ ,
we can learn that the flash tool Emma is usable only in Windows and according to the linked there website, Xperia X is not supported by Emma at all...
2. The blog post also states that: "Please subscribe to the Sailfish X email list if you wish to receive updates directly." I have been subscribed to the Sailfish X email list since the start of the project "Sailfish X" but have not recieved any updates directly...
3. If it does not postpone the release of the software, then what is the idea of delaying the sales???

So, either Jolla is again failing in communication or it just smells a fish...

And no, I'm not going to buy a Windows computer to get a Linux based frontend to a Android phone...

r0kk3rz

2017-09-26 18:40

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

guys guys... the current linux way will still work it's ok

feedme

2017-09-26 19:48

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

I assume that the delay for starting sales is because windoze flashtool support will eventually cover X also, but something needed from Sony side.

elastic

2017-09-26 20:21

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedme (Post 1535246)

I assume that the delay for starting sales is because windoze flashtool support will eventually cover X also, but something needed from Sony side.

Yes but that still only makes sense if there will be an additional fee for the Windows tool - else there won’t be any reason to delay the sale ...
That’s all wild guess of course ....

ste-phan

2017-09-27 05:27

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukk (Post 1535222)

Now you would like to keep Sailfish for the Linux desktop club?

I think the more Windows people that can have access to the Linux phone the better.
It is the phone that holds the most privacy sensitive data these days and demands an honnest business model by the phone OS maker.

Do you remember what having a Windows PC did add to your Maemo Linux phone in 2010? Full backup, sync, , flash and "tethering" and sending of SMS via Nokia Suite.

Linux and Windows, they were so complementary that even top people at Microsoft got scared that the Linux exposure through Maemo / MeeGo would eventually make people aware of Linux as a viable desktop OS.
Get to know and tweak your phone (without rooting) and see before you know it there is a crowd learning desktop Linux commands while drinking coffee outside: this couldn't be allowed to happen.

The embarrassing thing is that Linux people from their side don't seem to recognize how much they need the Windows crowd for Linux usage to expand beyond the embedded and hidden stuff.

mariusmssj

2017-09-27 06:32

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrcatian (Post 1535229)

Windows costs ~$100, Linux is free. Not costing a huge amount of money seems more inclusive to me, especially since the linked Sony tool *only* runs on Windows.

Well that's obvious, I never suggested that Windows should be the only way to flash a device. But giving user the option to use preferred system to do it would be great.

The current Linux method works great and people are using the flash.sh script but Jolla also providing a way for windows based machine to do it as well just makes more inclusive and does not alienate people who currently do not have linux machines.

pexi	2017-09-27 07:16

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Good news, more the marrier. I'm a hardcore Linux user but if we get Windowzers on board it's a welcome addition.

edit: how do you spell "marrier"? Does not sound right

gaelic

2017-09-27 07:31

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Is there any new about bluetooth support? Without BT I won't buy it as I use it quite often and on a daily basis. Thx.

juiceme

2017-09-27 08:25

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by pexi (Post 1535269)

Good news, more the marrier. I'm a hardcore Linux user but if we get Windowzers on board it's a welcome addition.

edit: how do you spell "marrier"? Does not sound right

"More the merrier"
Just like in "Merry Christmas" :D

Sthocs

2017-09-27 09:24

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukk (Post 1535222)

There is one big thing missing actually: gaming. Unfortunately game studios only deliver on Windows :/

What I really don't like about latest Jolla post is the open lie. The "new way of flashing" presented in the post exists since... 2012 :eek: Really, WTF are they playing with us?? :confused: :mad: https://developer.sonymobile.com/201...beta-download/

jukk	2017-09-27 09:39

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthocs (Post 1535283)

There is one big thing missing actually: gaming. Unfortunately game studios only deliver on Windows :/

I don't know, I have a big Steam library. No windows computers. Admittedly, one of the kids uses PlayOnLinux/wine to run a few games, but nobody else have complained for the ten years or so that the house has been linux-only.

mariusmssj

2017-09-27 10:16

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthocs (Post 1535283)

James Noori on September 27, 2017 at 12:54 pm

Quote:

I am not lying about any of this. This requirement was introduced to us very recently by Sony. It is completely out of contest whether the tool was introduced in 2012 or 1900! It is also out of our control whether we choose to use it or not. It is a new requirement from Sony’s Open devices to Jolla, that has to be taken care of by us, as the device is not manufactured by us and Sony is the rightful manufacturer which owns the right to their assets.

Watchmaker

2017-09-27 10:17

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthocs (Post 1535283)

New in addition to the old one they were planning to use before?

EDIT:

Quote:

This requirement was introduced to us very recently by Sony.
It is completely out of contest whether the tool was introduced in 2012 or 1900!

Exactly.

Sthocs

2017-09-27 10:32

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Yeah, then they should say that directly in the original post.
Saying that "Sony has presented a new way of flashing" is just not true.

Watchmaker

2017-09-27 10:46

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthocs (Post 1535289)

Saying that "Sony has presented a new way of flashing" is just not true.

Sony has presented to Jolla a new way of flashing. I don't give that sentence the same meaning as you do, sorry. I see no lie there. Language has nuances, you're just interpreting it in one way, which is not the only one.

explit

2017-09-27 11:00

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

First people complain about, why the flashtool is Linux only. Now Jolla and Sony offers official Sony Way to flash with Emma Software from Windows and people complain about why its not Linux or Mac. There will be always somewhere who will complain.

Even, when Jolla said, people can flash via fastboot script from Linux, Windows, Mac - somebody will complain, why its so complicated, and he can't install driver etc....

So keep calm.

Let it be Windows and Emma...I think also Hardcore Linux Gurus will find some PC with Windows, which he/she can use for Flashing.

The way of flashing doesn't really matters. They should deliver the official Sailfish X Image. Even on 5,25" Floppy disks. But they should deliver it !

jakibaki

2017-09-27 11:52

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1535272)

Is there any new about bluetooth support? Without BT I won't buy it as I use it quite often and on a daily basis. Thx.

Not sure if that's new for you but on the HADK-Page they mention that they have an partial solution.

Quote:

Bluetooth does not work (we have a solution for partial functionality and are busy integrating it)

feedme

2017-09-27 14:38

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthocs (Post 1535283)

Well xperia X is not listed as compatible device for windoze flash now. So Sony is needed an probably now Sony has agreed to make that happen. --> New way for Xpreria X flashing.

jenix

2017-09-27 15:05

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

To quote James from the comment section under the blog post:

Quote:

I will however say that the Emma tool is now officially a requirement for everyone in order to flash their devices. Xperia X is supported by that tool, more on that later.
So for further clarification (and maybe to repeat myself), the current official requirement from Sony is that everyone should use Emma tool in order to flash their devices.

Seems Sony has just changed the conditions of its Open Device program. You would suspect that Jolla had evaluated the situation with Sony before choosing their devices as the next SFOS Hardware and not just rely on Sony's good will, which would be a very bad idea. Now with Sony sabotaging the launch of SFOS X, I'm not so sure about that.

And sure, there will be some way of finding a Windows to flash the device. But requiring a closed-source Windows installation to be able to install the images certainly not strengthen Sailfish's image as free and open platform.

juiceme

2017-09-27 15:12

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

This is bad because I had so much trouble trying to downgrade my XperiaX with windows-like tools on linux that I just gave it up.
(read, I just could not make it work)

Now, to install the official SFOS image I need to try that crap again???

On the positive side; this might mean it is not necessary to unlock the bootloader to flash SFOS, right?

deprecated

2017-09-27 15:15

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

So Jolla has updated the blog post (in the comments) to state that on the sales start date and target release date, there will be no release available to US or Canada. They said previously that it was a payment processing issue, but now there are "other issues" and they "make no promises" regarding later availability.

While I'd like to throw this thing in the trash out of anger and walk away... is there anyone here that could accept PayPal on the sales start date to buy a license for me? :confused:

r0kk3rz

2017-09-27 15:36

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenix (Post 1535303)

Jolla have been in contact with representatives from Sony from the very beginning. It's possible that Sony lawyers got caught wind and didn't like what they saw or its more likely that a third-party has forced Sony's hand.

It's going to be around the distribution of the required binary blobs, and these are licenced to Sony by third-parties. It seems that the flashing image will need to be 'packed' by the sony flashtool for arguably some non-technical reason.

I would guess either Sony changed something in this EULA or Jolla missed something from it.

meemorph

2017-09-27 15:51

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1535304)

New flash tool from Sony for unlocked Xperia™
------------------------------------=======----------

always on the dark side. ;-)

explit

2017-09-27 16:04

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

For all SailfishOS friends outside Europe:
I would help all to buy the official Sailfish X Image.

I think it doesn't matters how much Images i can buy?

If i have 5 Xperia X - i can buy 5x SailfishOS X Images.
So everybody who want - just contact me over pm or email

info (at) explit.de

deprecated

2017-09-27 16:09

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by explit (Post 1535311)

Thanks explit, that's really kind of you. I'll be in touch soon. :)

atlochowski

2017-09-27 16:09

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by explit (Post 1535311)

I don't know if it will be so easy. I think it will be connected to Jolla account. So you will have all images or phones with this images connected to your Jolla account.
I think we should wait for official sale and check how it will work.

meloferz

2017-09-27 16:13

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by explit (Post 1535311)

Thanks! I would like to have your help for buying Sailfish OS, but I think that we have to wait a little more to know more about the conditions when someone buy it

Enviado desde mi F5121 mediante Tapatalk

deprecated

2017-09-27 16:14

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlochowski (Post 1535313)

That may not be an option, though. They updated the blog post (in the comments) saying that US and CA availability will NOT be there, and can't make promises for a release in the future.

So, if I have to give someone in outside North America my Jolla account credentials to buy the license with money I PayPal them, by all means. I will. :D

willi6868

2017-09-27 16:19

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by deprecated (Post 1535305)

[...] is there anyone here that could accept PayPal on the sales start date to buy a license for me? :confused:

Well according to James' comment I suppose you have to give your Jolla account credentials to the person who wants to help you to buy the SFOS X image since it is tied to the Jolla account:

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Noori

Basically, Sailfish OS by itself is free, what you are paying for is Android support, Predictive text input and MS exchange + VAT. The services mentioned above are going to be tied to your Jolla account, therefore what you pay for will be registered to your Jolla account. I hope that was clear enough :)

lantern

2017-09-27 16:33

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

So many obstacles to overcome... Long live Jolla!

jakibaki

2017-09-27 16:45

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

2017-09-27: sfosx bluetooth primordial enablers pushed out, but will need backporting bluez from latest master to and also building new https://github.com/mer-hybris/bluetooth-rfkill-event package. If you feel adventureous, resync hybris manifest and rebuild, writing up your findings in hot-hadk etherpad ;) please doublecheck with krnlyng if you got all loose ends covered, or there is something i forgot here ^

Double tap to wake has been pushed out, but is known to cause issues on certain xperiax the revisions

From here

Looks like bluetooth might be (somewhat) ready at release :)

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