Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Thanks, I got hid of it already, but this should be a good app.

It doesn't solve the overall need for multitask, only on the browser, but it sure helps.

And it still has the problem of lack of real software........ I will wait for w8 x86 tablets.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I guess nor ARM processor, nor screen of tablet nor UX (mainly) is not ready or suitable for AutoCAD. May be tablet is suitable for showing dwg or svg, but editing ...hmm, no. I guess in your case kinda ultrabook still is the tool.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Given that Nokia has a long time experience with ARM hardware, it will most likely be an ARM toy with Win8 RT (Windows with Metro apps only, no desktop). Metro apps will likely multitask on Windows 8 (ARM and x86) the same way they do on WP 7, i.e. not at all. The Windows 8 Consumer Preview clearly shows this already.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Truly matters on what you call "productive". For instance, I have a Xoom, it's overclocked to 1.6ghz, I use it to run scripts and manage my servers via SSH, send/edit MS Office documents while traveling or when I'm just being a lazy bastard and don't want to open the laptop.

When you say "outlook integration", I assume you mean MS Exchange. It's not missing at all and I'm using it. If you're on Gingerbread, that might be a different situation than ICS, but I recall it being there on my Motorola Atrix too.

CAD App... I work with engineers. AndCAD is their choice. I cannot speak to how well it integrates into their Autodesk AutoCAD workflow; however Autodesk has products (mostly viewers) that work flawless with their polyline and arc based dxf/dwg drawings.

Lack of high speed internet access, tether to your N900/N9 - I used to do that. And OfficeSuite Pro and/or Quick Office Pro HD (I have both, no real advantage to either) can open MS Office 2007/2010 products without issue - only Visio is missing for me.

I get what you're saying, but I'd have to say that you didn't do enough research; no disrespect meant btw.

In the car, the games keep my son quiet. Trust me, I really call that a blessing sometimes. But I do work on my tablet mostly.

Okay, here's one issue we're going to have to disagree with. I get that multi-tasking is important with folks here. Don't disagree actually. But what I do have a problem with... on the tablet format, none of them really do effective multitasking on a touch based UI. It just... doesn't exist in tablets.

And no, Harmattan nor Maemo 5 are on a tablet screen that's 7 or 10 inches big as of yet. So pointing to the N9, which is multi-tasking on a smaller screen. Yet I can open an e-mail, switch to a browser, switch to my ssh session, switch back to my e-mail, send it off with an MS Office attachment without issue. This lack of multi-tasking mantra needs to be better defined around here. It's tossed around like we're comparing to desktop multi-tasking.

You will never be happy in that area on a tablet form that's not a PC based OS.

Again, which version of Android are you using? I can adjust volume, wi-fi, bluetooth and brightness without leaving an app - lower right alongside clock, I can edit all of that and stay in the app of choice. But this is ICS.

I'd suggest doing more research into Win8 on tablets. Serial tasking, lack of common controls on the desktop, lack of 3rd party browsers on ARM based tablets - MS is blocking them all out - and a slew of other limitations will make the Win8 experience on ARM more like your Android experience you've described above.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Even for viewing.

For example, I couldn't (and can't) plug an Android (or iOS) tablet to my PC (or wifi into my network) and grab my projects and simply open then for viewing purposes.

I need to either email then to me (beyond stupid), and then download the converted project from autodesk somewhat automatically. OR send it over to Autodesk and download the converted files.

Both are impractical, and slow. Even if I just view then, everytime there is a change in a project I need to do that again. And to do that with over 400 or 500 projects takes many many hours. And usually these Tablets do not have enough memory to store that much information.

And I can't just select everything and tell it to update. It won't do that and only support 10 files at a time.

I can't set up some kind of SVN or stuff.

If a Linux handheld (like a n900 or n9) had support for cad I'm pretty sure I would be able to set up a SVN to automatically update my projects.

On a x86 windows environment, I'm sure I can do that. If win8 supports everything that win7 supports (on a x86 processor) I will be very happy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia had a project with Intel based chips, you know.....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Android supports USB transfers/USB mass storage - simply mount the device.

Can't speak to SVN since I use Github, but all-in-all, I transfer my files via wifi (Websharing) or just plug the thing up to the machine that has the information I want.

AutoCAD WS supports viewing and editing btw. Just had a convo with an engineer a few moments ago.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I really meant outlook integration. Like with Symbian where I can sync emails directly with my outlook on my workstation/notebook. Either through bluetooth or USB (I guess it is possible with wifi, but I don't know how).

I don't have the luxury of keeping emails on the webserver, because my company uses an ancient email provider which only has like 50mb inbox. I could set up a better one on a weekend, but go figure it out, business decisions are like this.

It does work, but see my post above to understand why I couldn't use it. Having to process it through AutoDesk servers and back, and the methods available to do that kill it's functionality for me.

I could, only I'm not using my n900 (broken USB again) and my E6 can only tether through infrastructure, which I wasn't able to make work on my verizon locked galaxy tab. Tried multiple drivers and none worked. This lack of functionality irks me. And, even then, 3G speeds aren't really high, and inside the building the signal is much too weak to get a reasonable connection.

Agreed, it is a toy, like I said. And as a toy it excels.

Well... I do like to work with multiple monitors and frequently have:
3~5 CAD projects open;
1 Excel spreadsheet;
1 Adobe Document;
1 Outlook mailbox + 1 email open;
1 Word document;
4~6 explorer folders;
1 browser.

And alternate heavily between all this. I know I won't be able to do this on a tablet. But if I could open a couple of projects, email, spreadsheet and a browser at the same time I would be happy. I know that if there was enough processing power/memory and a CAD app my n900 could do it.

This I know for a fact know. The n900 spoiled me.


2.5 something. This is another huge problem of Android (that is not present on iOS). Fragmentation. There is no uniform presentation or usability or experience.

I can buy a Dell, HP, Sony, Asus PC and expect similar experience. I can't buy a Samsung, Sony, Asus Tablet and expect similar experiences. And even in the same manufacturer a couple months difference in launch time may mean that you're a major version behind and will never get to the same version.

If this is true for x86 w8 I wonder if I can use a USB drive to install win7 and cram a touch layer on top of it? If not, could I do this to install a linux OS? If not, will they take my refund?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

There is no 2.5 version. Perhaps you meant 2.3.5? That would be Gingerbread.

Win7 has tablet controls built-in, btw.

And your Outlook situation sounds like a rather esoteric/rare/anachronistic setup. For once, I'd suggest using Google Apps for your company instead of that setup.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I know. But I can't use these on CAD archives. The CAD files need to pass some kind of processing on the servers before it is useful. And to my dismay I couldn't simply point to a .DWG (cad file) file in memory and expect it to send it, process and bring me back the compatible version.

I had to do it through email or desktop. And it was a PAIN IN THE ***, slow and unproductive.

About the editing option, the problem is that I had to do the backwards server compatibilization. Send the Tablet version of the CAD project to the server, have it processed and then download the .dwg file for my computer. PAIN IN THE ***.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yeah, that's the version.


And my Outlook situation in something odd. But something that I can overcome through Symbian since 2001.

I wanted, suggested and begged to change to google. I even offered to do it myself (already did on another company) even though I'm an Electricity Engineer and it has nothing to do with what I am actually paid for.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ah... yeah, you're using *.dwg files. AutoCAD WS is cloud based, therefore the changes are at their servers, not on your client machine. It integrates into Google Drive (formerly Google Docs - again a recommendation for Google Apps) but you're not going to be lucky if you don't have high-speed access.

Native dwg/dxf is in AndCAD. No conversion necessary.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Impractical, yes. One hint (maybe). WebKit2 browser in N9 properly shows SVG files. In AutoCAD (in early versions, exactly ) was export to .svg... Yes, this only for browsing.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh,and you reminded me how much this internet connectivity dependency makes me want to rage.

Inability to use MANY apps without internet connection is stupid. Inability to use then without VERY HIGH SPEED connection is even worse.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That's basically my work setup as well, along with most of my colleges. At the same time they all (most of them) love the iPad. That is a mystery to me, but a fact. My theory about that is the iPad let them get away from work, relax, in a way that even a netbook wouldn't do. But then again, some bring it along for work related e-mail and stuff, so the my theory isn't bullet proof.

I wouldn't dream of having any iProducts myself. A 7 inch native Google/Asus pad would be nice though.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Have you tried using Outlook Web Access for your email when you are out and about? It is the web front end of Outlook that gives you access to all of you inbox, calendar etc.. Granted you still need an internet connection but nothing blindingly fast and there is no installation too, so should run on anything. (works well on my HP touchpad)

That said, The HP touchpad is quite a multi tasking beast, has BT k/b and mouse support and you can launch ubuntu (ala easy debian) too which comes with a whole host of programs as you would expect with linux.

Lastly if you do find yourself in an area with good internet connection, you can launch Splashtop an have a very quick low latency remote desktop session to your PC that fits very well with it 10'' screen.

I bought mine because I wanted something that I could compare to the experiences I have with the n900 and it has not disappointed me. With the inclusion of native webOS games and dual boot Android it fits my personal and work needs.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

check out these stats regarding NOK value:

http://ycharts.com/companies/NOK

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

We have to be careful with definitions here, touch based UIs for tablets do exist. From "Windows XP tablet PC edition" (to some extent, more stylus based) which has existed for almost a decade, to the more recent Meego. They do exist. Meego based WeTab for example exists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOZdM...eature=related

What specifically doesn't exist is an ARM tablet with multitasking. What we aren't going to get overnight is legacy x86 apps with touch optimised UIs. What we are also not going to get is the ability to run the sort of workstation programs jotoco wants any time soon. Even on my x86 based tablet or Atom based nettops these programs are unusable because of performance, whether it be editing in Solidworks or AutoCAD. These sort of devices are not meant for editing, presenting maybe, but even Autodesk Showcase would most likely struggle (completely forget about calculating Ambient Occlusion, you will be waiting for years). You can't get something for nothing, you are either looking at high performance, low battery life, or low performance, long battery life.


jotoco, I'm fairly sure Android and iOS have keyboard and mouse support and office alternatives. If you plan to use keyboard/mouse more often than touch then I would also need to ask why you plan to get a tablet or what you think Windows 8 will bring.

if it's the form factor and touchscreen then there is the Series 7 slate which runs Win7

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/p...XE700T1A-A01UK

If it's more because of portability there are Win7 UMPCs which are more portable than even an iPad, like the Viliv N5.

If you are looking for portable with battery life the Sony Vaio P, battery life is 5.5 hours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEBvGDwbh0Y

Just don't expect to be creating/editing complex assemblies/families in AutoCAD on any of these devices and these will run out of juice very quickly for these taxing tasks.

Sorry, this is way off-topic.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Fine.. fine... https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...sageek.stickit

What the hell are you babbling about? At least CAD software is even AVAILABLE on Android--that's a far bit better than the N9/N900 productivity experience already. Who KNOWS what the experience will be like on x86 Windows tablets and whatever limitations they might have. They don't even exist to purchase yet and, given Microsoft's past trends, they HAVE tried to limit and cripple experiences on their operating system--Why shouldn't Windows 8 experience the joys of crippleware?

There is no Android 2.5, as Gerbick already pointed out. Did you even look?

Didn't he, earlier, point out that he has an Asus Transformer? I had a coworker with the TF-101 and I can ABSOLUTELY confirm that it supports bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth mouse, as well as USB keyboard and USB mouse IN ADDITION to the keyboard/trackpad dock that was made to work with it. There's absolutely no excuse for claiming that it can't and I can confirm that first-hand on precisely that model. For the record, I have both Android 2.3.5 (Galaxy Tab) and Android 4.0.4 (Galaxy Nexus) and they both support bluetooth keyboards and mice... so even the Android version isn't really much of an excuse.

Also, yes--there's a PLETHORA of very good office apps available (Google Docs, ThinkFree Office, DocumentsToGo, OfficeSuite, etc.).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, yes... we've been watching it go legs-up for quite a while now. Any news, though? :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ya, you don't need to be an analyst to come with that prediction. I.e., most people who'd want it to be a stronger tool would want a desktop OS like Windows 8, and many of those will end up thinking ARM is not good enough or i386 is too expensive. But many, many would want Windows simply because they recognize it from their their computer.

The survey shows interest, not future market share.

Personally, I'm not interested in W8 tablets unless i386 compatible. Why would I want an lightweight app-OS? Metro without full Windows is just a new attempt at creating an iOS/Appstore clone. The full Windows 8 with Metro sounds real schitzo to me, though.

Still, the survey suggests that people want Windows on tablets. I concur, since I come from the camp of few and satisfied TabletPC owners. A Slate PC with 512 levels, touch sensitive, multi core i386-compatible Adobe Photoshop running drawing board. Yes, it's a stretch to call that a tablet. But that's what I want.

Microsoft sold those devices, before the iPad. But back then they were running XP Tablet PC Edition,, it was expensive and not at all touch friendly. I've been having a TabletPC since 2005 and I'm not going to replace that until I find a tempting device with touch levels.

I already have a Tab 10.1 through work. It's a toy, not a tool.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

good advice.

I did say if it had support for that it would do those things....

It must be it, since it is the last official version (for the Sammy galaxy tab), and it is kinda hard to look on something you don't own anymore, like I already said.

[/quote]

For you and the guy above, I never claimed they didn't support KB or Mouse, I just listed it as needed. And I wouldn't use it THAT much. but would be nice to have around.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You are right it doesn't take an analyst but clearly the analyst who did this research did so pointlessly then. My main point was that the survey itself is both obvious and misleading to what possible actionable intelligence it provides. Windows 8 is an anomaly on that list since it doesn't state WoA, so people will confuse it with the x86 variant (which I assume was meant and what the survey expects you to infer). It's the only x86 OS listed in the survey. It's akin to a survey asking "what bike do you want" then listing a number of bicycles and one which people associate with a popular motorcycle. Different market, different needs, different price, it makes the survey pointless because these already exist yet do not really compete with the other. What actionable intelligence does that sort of comparison provide? yes it may show an interest in motorcycles but it didn't take a survey to show it. Nor does it prove a stronger interest in motorcycles over bicycles.

Basically you cannot come to any conclusion from this survey. It's pointless.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab with the latest version they upgraded to, it's Android 2.3.5 (Gingerbread). Not that it matters greatly to know it at this point, then, but that's likely the version yours was running. I'm planning to stick Android 4.0.4 on mine tonight or tomorrow night sometime. I already have the ROM and I'm about to do a roto-backup and then flash it. Wish me luck. heh

Fair enough on all counts, then, and agreed. I'm using a Logitech bluetooth keyboard and a Logitech bluetooth mouse with both my Tab and my Nexus and they're excellent to work with--extremely pocket-portable too. ESPECIALLY with Ice Cream Sandwich--it finally feels like a proper computer on ICS now that they've corrected everything I kept complaining to them about the keyboard and mouse (right click is a real right-click instead of back, now.. mouse-overs work in browsers and apps, etc.). ICS (well, actually ALL versons of Android, but ICS handles it PERFECTLY) support multiple-monitors--so you can actually have cloning as well as extended/seperate screens. For me, ICS is pretty close to almost exactly the OS I've been looking for--now it just seems to need good hardware to run on. I'd bet all it needs is just some good heavy-duty software for you to like it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think the main point here is that Android and the latest version, ICS in particular, seem to be the perfect OS from most peoples point of view, "ordinary" consumers and geeks alike. Whatever MS cooks up now and in the near future, it is already too late, it is already irrelevant. We have seen that with the Lumia 800 in Europe the last 1/2 year.

No one really dislikes WP or the Lumia, it's a great product. It just doesn't offer anything that you don't already have on an Android device. The Android device in the same price range offers more. Apple will soon have to reinvent themselves, but as of today WP is too early to really snatch the bulk of Apple users. Early adopters of the iPhone like the Lumia 800/900 though, and with the 610 and future devices I would think Nokia could catch and hold on to a decent market share, say 10-20 percent if they are lucky.

Google though, is more like a force of nature. They will be untouchable as the market share leader for a long long time. At some point Nokia would have to make Android devices as well unless they are satisfied with 10% market share. But then again, maybe Nokia will be satisfied with those 10 percent as long as those 10 percent gives a decent profit. Going Android means no profit unless you are Samsung.

What is preventing Google from going desktop? Well, nothing it seems I remember when mainframes like Digital and SGI ruled for everything but office and gaming. It was almost impossible to believe that rubber band powered PC's running MS Windows would take over, but they did. I see the same thing happening now. Even though it's close to impossible to believe that a tablet type of device can in any way replace a true gaming PC or CAD work station or even office desktop, that is the way it is headed. The synergy between hardware and software that pushed things forward existed between Intel and MS. Now that synergy exist only between Android and ARM based hardware. You may think that an ARM based PC cannot compete with the advanced, complex and high performance Intel X86, but IMO they are already there. The difference in performance and complexity between an SGI work station and a 486 based PC was much larger than this. Android and Atom may also work just fine.

A long rant, but I mean, there is nothing noble in fighting the inevitable. ICS may not be perfect from all angles, but it is better than anything that has ever existed before, all thing considering. Android will lead the way and shape the future, but as it gets bigger, the paste will be slower. Other smaller OSes will be able to catch up, like iOS and WP, and may live as profitable niche products (or not).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

If Nokia Was Smart o Released Both Windowstablet and,a Maemo Tablet they Would have A Chance Too take Alot From Android/iphone Thats For Sure...

Right Now There Is Just Crappy Tablets On The Market :(

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The paste shall indeed be slower. Keep a careful eye on that paste, folks. My favorite typo/miswording of the month. :) It could only have been improved if you had written in the next sentence, instead, "Other smaller OSes will be able to ketchup."

All kidding aside, I believe you're probably right.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Both WP and NOKIA have plenty of cash to sustain a long fight. I do think that they will form the third ecosystem and will be profitable. NOKIA will shrink, that is given and necessary. Relying on Taliban phones for far too long, and neglecting to push out the future, killed them.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

what exactly is a taliban phone?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Phone without NSA's backdoors?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

A phone that doesn't give you the outrageous liberty to change your own ringtone

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia's stock value -7% again.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/els.aspx?...D&symbol=NOK1V

WP-tragedy is well earned.

http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-...bile-partners/

They should fire Elop and make a real PlanB.

A good thing is, everyone sees Microsoft does not belong to mobile world. Every time it tries, it makes catastrophes and ruins companies which have strategic alliance with Microsoft.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Maybe because it is intentional, at least in part? Microsoft doesn't want or need a new market segment that is a competitor for Windows+Office. If they can dominate this new market segment like they dominate desktop PC's -- all the better, but they'll gladly settle for destroying mobile computing if it comes to that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This was mentioned before in this thread, yet Nokia doesn't realize this conflict of interest.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

phones that no one will buy in developed world

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

check this.out: http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/201...n-rd/?mod=e2tw


no wonder Nokia went with MS

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

MS can not destroy the mobile market which will outgrow the desktop market very soon, I believe they would even give up their desktop dominance for a big chunk of the mobile one that's why they ruined windows by making win 8 o horrible hybrid of desktop and tablet interface which imo will be their train to becoming irrelevant

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

OK, you mean BB, Motorola and WP.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Man, you totally love iPhones, don´t you?
You´re actually not a WP sheep but a proper iSheep...everytime some comparison or competing between platforms comes up around here, you´re always bringing up stuff about iPhone.
What´s the barrier, though?
Why don´t you throw away all your Nokia "dumbphones" and get at least 15 overpriced, white-gayish iPhones 4s, so you´ll be satisfied forever and ever?
It´s totally clear that you´re not actually a Lumiaman, you´re just another iSheep, exactly the same as I see everywhere I go in a developed world...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Well, I and some analysts beg to differ (not that I give a lot about other analysts, but I give a lot about my own opinion :D).

This is what Andy Perkins (Societe Generale) writes:

"We believe that to date most attention has been focused on Nokia’s deteriorating handset position. However, we are perhaps more concerned with the rapidly deteriorating cash position. Firstly, by excluding NSN from our calculations we find that the company actually went through over €900m in the first quarter alone. Secondly, we find that the handset division could burn though €1.6bn this year in operations. Thirdly, total handset restructuring costs could total €2bn over the next two years as the company has to downside rapidly. We reason that the extremely fast fall in revenues will require very large cash restructuring charges to reduce expenses in line with lower revenues. We now forecast an additional €2bn in charges for Nokia’s Device & Services business over the next two years. However, if Nokia follows a similar trajectory to Motorola, there could be a further substantial fall in sales with further restructuring. On our calculations, such an additional fall could be enough to burn through most of Nokia’s existing cash pile and even bring into question Nokia’s very survival. At the moment, this remains an alternative scenario to our base case, but it can’t be ignored.

And sorry that I talk about Nokia's stock (down another 5% scratching the $3 mark on the NYSE).