Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Always love news like this buried in a blog post at the 11th hour:

"James Noori on September 27, 2017 at 3:07 pm
Your concerns are understood, but there is more to it than just payment issues (which we thought at first that it only was that) but at least for the first release we won’t have the availability for USA and Canada market. No promises for later releases either but we will definitely work on the issues."

As a US based enthusiast waiting from the beginning of Jolla, this is a gut punch. I'm resigned that i may never own a fully featured Sailfish device, fine.

Can't wait to see what last second limitations are imposed on Chen's devices. I can't imagine whatever is hosing this for the US on the Xperia wouldn't do the same for his stuff. Please let it be directly related to Jolla's payment system (and if so WTF) and not some general licensing or export nonsense.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Right there with you. When I read the thread I just shook my head. The community port works on it in the US on t-mobile - with the exception of some MMS fiddling - the same deal with my Nexus 5 that has been running it for over a year...

So, really, what's the deal? Why bury that news and not update it on the blog post? Why alienate an entire continent?

Very close to walking away from the table and picking up a flip phone.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Yep, i've had an old version on my nexus 5 for awhile too, was hoping for something that finally got the android support and could do an OTA update that isn't a pain.

Guess we'll wait and see. I've been pretty forgiving of their missteps but im annoyed with the communication here at a minimum.

Probably wouldn't have bought an Xperia if they had made a conservative statement like this up front instead of implying there was just a minor detail to iron out for north america. SMH

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Stop acting like it's the end of the world. Buy a EU prepaid card and buy SFOS with it, stating your country as EU. Easy.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

That's a fair point. Do you have any recommendations for EU prepaid cards that service US customers? Thanks!

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Lol, me too. I even sourced one of the SCR50 touch cover cases... only place I could get it was eBay in Australia... for almost $60. Oh well, maybe with a EU prepaid card all will be well!

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Or just create a dedicated mail address only for use on the Xperia X phone?

The more times goes by the release of Sailfish X seems more and more troublesome.

It sounds like Sony can't decide if they really want you to flash your phone. You need initial firmware in order to utilize proprietary features and if you dare to unlock your bootloader a warning will get displayed every time your phone boots eventrough Sailfish X is shared collaboration between Jolla and Sony which might mean Sony don't view SailfishOS as malware.


Jolla has co-engineered other devices born with SailfishOS and burned their hands a couple of times (eg. with Turning Phone) but none has taken so long time to finish software wise as the Xperia X.

I'm really worried about the long delay. On one hand we could hope that Jolla is making this big effort to support arm64 out of the box in the future and on the other hand I worry that Jolla really struggles badly to survive and goes an long to way to please potentials partners (without proper signed contracts) which might blow them off once again.

This delay does harm the public image of Jolla big time and many potential partners might have their interest in SailfishOS by the time Sailfish X gets released to the public as a stable platform.

A lot of other phones on market does support flashing without the need to utilize security flaws in order to backup initial features and to be able to restore warranty.

If Jolla would have known what they know about the Open Device Program today I think they've gone with another collaborator.

At this time I consider SailfishOS to be on life support. It's really slow on new features and feature plans for the platform, but I really hope they survive and the OS comes up to speed with new features at a regular basis before the Purism Librem 5 sees the light.

Jolla knew about GPLv3 in advance of the design of platform. A license Google has avoided by choosing BSD userland tools instead of the GNU counterparts and build the platform upon a homegrown Java WM instead on relaying tools used by most Linux dists.

If Jolla wants to keep developing SailfishOS as a distribution which shares many libraries and software tools with a desktop based Linux distribution they need to accept GPLv3 as they can't go on with old versions of gnu tools such as the gcc compiler or qt 5.6 forever nor can they maintain a fork of these tools for years to come.

I don't want Jolla to be the new Nokia.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

revolut should do .... but you need an androud or ios mobile to use it ... :-(

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Shouldn't be a problem for someone with an Xperia X :p!

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

True! Plus my girlfriend has an iPhone... won't be a problem.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Hey all!

I am currently living in Canada (and also have US paypal and bank accounts), however, my permanent residency is in the Czech Republic (EU). I am happy to assist anyone from US/Canada who would like to buy Sailfish X. Feel free to PM me for details.

PS: It could be that there are some 'hidden' legislation-related reasons why Jolla doesn't want to sell an OS in the region. Maybe, in order to be officially allowed to do so, you need to be co-operative with some of the three-letter organizations... I do not have any information and evidence for this so don't quote me here, I'm simply trying to come up with a plausible story that sort of makes sense. Also, we should keep in mind that Sailfish X is supposed to be (at least for now) a community project. And I bet Jolla does know us - their community - and they are definitely aware there will be many Europeans who will offer assistance to many from the US (hidden pun^TM). But do you really expect them to officially write sthing like "If we wanna sell a phone OS in the US, we need to have a backdoor for organization XYZ. So we won't do that, and you guys from the US just email your mates in EU and do what needs to be done" ? I doubt. So let's wait what will be the exact conditions, but I would be surprised if they will pro-actively fight against this gray-area of software smuggling (who would believe that there is gonna be such a thing as smuggling software). Also, we should not expect them to publicly write "guys, guys, calm down, the system is designed to be hacked"

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

And what about payment? They said is a problem that, I don't know if you be able to use an American credit card, or a Canadian, or even a PayPal account from those countries.

Enviado desde mi F5121 mediante Tapatalk

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Don't worry, he said its easy. I'm sure all contingencies were thought through. World no longer over.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

I have zero idea how all that mess looks like ATM on X but.........
can't you do something like

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

it's not a motorola. it's in the bootloader.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

😂 true
There have been some people looking at this over at XDA, but so far it’s not possible to remove this warning screen.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Ugh no USA again? I am the last one

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Yeah, I think it should be easy to get around that one though.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Actually, the New Nokia uses lots of GPLv3 licensed tools and libraries.
So in fact you would like Jolla to be like the New Nokia... :D

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

You should read the recent twitter thread about Nokia (HMD Global) not unlocking the Nokia 8 bootloader.

Here is a quote of one of the replies:
Hopefully Nokia (HMD Global) will change their minds (if enough people tell them to)... :D

Sorry, you may now return to your normal Sailfish on Xperia discussion.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Where do you suggest to go tell HMD Global to open the doors for Sailfish (official) ports?

Anticipating Sailfish X release I went to check the dual sim Sony Xperia X in a shop and it felt like one sad generic plastic phone with the potential of being a more forgiving and cheaper floordropper than some of the so called flagships foolishly made from glass parts.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

You saved my day! :) Sorry for off topic.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

I think a few months is very fast when porting a 32bit OS to a 64bit hardware.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Honestly, that is a much larger question, which I cannot answer. But an unlockable bootloader would help as a first step — preferably one where usage of which doesn't invalidate the warranty. Requesting this via twitter from @sarvikas (Chief Product Officer of HMD Global) and @MikkoLJaakkola (CTO of HMD Global) is one course of action.

Another would be simply not purchasing any of their devices until they implement this.

Another might be a public petition to HMD Global.

Another route would be to ask GSMArena and all gadget review websites to make it very clear whether a device includes an unlockable bootloader or not, and whether doing so invalidates the warranty. This would awaken the mainstream consumers to the the feature as being important to look for.

Really, for your main question, you would need to ask Jolla what is required.

I think that is partly why Jolla chose this phone first: availability, cheapness, openness, unlockability, and 'documentation'. I think there is definite demand for an officially supported Sailfish release on a high end handset. My guess is that will be another Xperia (though some people claim the camera/display are still not high-end enough on the current premium models).

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Well, the 64bit CPU will run 32bit code. Which is what it does for this port (mainly because of hybris not ported to 64bit)

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

I choose Jolla because I can log onto irc and speak to there staff, work with them and attempt to fix a problem rather than the google approach of just throwing source code over the wall when its done. all about the community really :)

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Sony has not been that fair to change the rules a few days before SFX launch. I think a number of Sony higher-ups may have entered Panic Mode Level 1 when they found out that people going to flash SailfishX are way more than a dozen nerds. While this does not rule out their Insane Fear of Dem HaxX0rz Compromising Our Boot Keys, and does not rule out other scenarios, their will to get back in control of flashing (mandating the Windows Emma tool) could suggest they're readying some unofficial support (an "approved SFOS image" that may get flashed by an "approved service center" using the only "approved (Windows) tool").

Emma prerequisites are somewhat annoying - not only you need Windows 7 or later (sadly Windows XP is not there: have you some recent Windows PC hanging around? will Emma work in a VirtualBox window? will it safely operate under Wine?), but you also need to register a login and have internet access (which could possibly be used to block "unofficial" - aka community - releases). Yet, with the exception of userfriendliness for illiterate people scared by the "Linux" word, it's not clear if Emma actually gives some benefit if compared to the straightforward Linux script used till now by Jolla guys themselves.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Someone fearless could test emma in wine.
It will propably work.
At least i did flash a friends xperia s with emma version of that time using wine successfully! That was 2012 though.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Someone already did, see comments in the Jolla blog SFOS X entry. Search in the page for "wine", and you find that this was the result:

I strongly suspect that when sales of the official image starts, we will find that the official method will need Emma + Windoze for at least one step, and a 100% Linux method won't be officially supported any longer.

Who knows what last-minute action by Sony has brought all this on, but James Noori seems to be in a difficult position over this one. I'm glad that I'm not in his shoes ;)

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Did anyone try running it under VirtualBox, and the Windows 10 Enterprise Evaluation Virtual Machine ?

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Many speculations on SE and the enforcement of Emma. Time for a few facts:

1. This is good.it means ordinary users can more easily get sfos . Thus it will probably extend the number of users on

2. Linux (flashtool) will still be usable for the more techies. You can use flashtool to create a flashable ftf file, downloaded from Emma.

3. Bad part; once Sony decides X is EOL, they might remove images from Emma. This, is probably where some discussions between Jolla and SE is going right now.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

What is more disappointing is that we have to go through the comments section to learn that Windows is mandatory at some point during the flashing process.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

You can do the following:

- make standard KVM virtual machine with Windows 10
- shut it down
- plug in your Sony
- open virtual guest properties
- add Sony as USB passthough device
- start the guest

Now you should have your Sony plugged in USB in your guest Windows 10.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Its not ideal I'll admit, but it if makes it more of a shot to get SFOS into more hands it maybe worth it, and am sure we'll work something out

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

I am thinking the same thing. People will find a way.

Also this might help people who are not into Linux to try out SFOS on their phones. The more support the better :D

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

This is fairly baseless, there's a whole bunch of devices still supported by Emma that are a lot older than the Xperia X, for instance the Xperia Z (Feb 2013) and the Xperia SL (Sept 2012).

So yeah, if that is any indication we're looking at the Xperia X being 'EOL' sometime around 2021, maybe.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

OK. And how many people that are not "into linux" will give 50€ just to try linux based phone OS? Even if they have X already.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Yes, the more are able to install it the better,

but figuring something out again still means means you first need to own or having access to a Windows machine or it’s not the really legal way ... in some point (at least for downloading) a Windows tool will be evolved what means you need to install it what implements the access to a legal Windows copy (even if installed in a virtual machine or in boot camp you need a legal license ...)

And you can’t just download one image and give it to community as it will be individual purchases and you will have to download your own copy ... - however Jolla ans Sony plan to make this happen (hopefully not with any kind of drm) it would be illegal to spread it

So back to the first statement. The more the better - I’m pretty sure the point won’t be the availability of a Windows tool but unlocking the bootloader plus saving the drm keys - Just imagine the shitstorm that will go down on Jolla when crowds of “only wanted to try it” people realise that they don’t get back their Sony-extra-stuff when flashing back to android ... - or even more likely don’t get the unlocking process anyway and you can read everywhere about the shitty OS you can’t even install or that bricked your device or ...

I don’t know what Sony an Jolla a brewing together right now, but as long as bootloader, adb tools, fastboot and other stuff are evolved I would highly recommend to keep the flashing process advances as you don’t want any noobs to brick their devices and spreading bad news ... at least you need a really good and fast support hotline - have a look at the Fairphone forum and you will realise how many things can go wrong even without having to downgrade, unlock first

just my point of view

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Android is Linux based.

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 

Indeed it better to think of SFOS as GNU based rather than Linux based. It's internal stack and available software is all built around the GNU part of typical GNU+Linux distros.

But of course when people say 'Linux based' they're usually referring to GNU+Linux anyway.