Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I can see how an iSheep would twist that article as proof that Apple is better than Nokia.

There are so many omissions in those few paragraphs that it does not really explain well enough that during 2004 and 2007 Nokia was in full production with multiple handsets and OS's, creating new technologies in not just a fancy UI and creating App stores but Telephony services with other large organisations (ie Motorola & FCC) where they were consultants in 3g technologies as they were previously with 2g. These are just a few examples that they were working on in a global scale back when the iphone was still a dream in Steve Jobs's head, so of course Nokia's R&D would have been vastly greater than Apples.

Now when Apple came along, they were just building on existing tech and they did it bloody well. But they did not have to put the same out lay down like the old players as the technology had already been created. Apple just concentrated on streamlining and bringing these tools together, which was a successful move for them.

As for the articles comparison to last years R&D profits and losses between both companies, lumiaman appears to have conveniently forgotten every single piece of Nokia news from the last 14 months post the burning platform memo just for the sake of an idiotic post.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They still have 16 bln equity on hand. Look under the balance sheet:

http://ycharts.com/companies/NOK

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

they spent 9 times as much to produce Taliban phones? OH my! Apple R&D is not only iphones, but computers, ipods and other derivatives. It is therefore amazing, that with all the money input, we got N900 that was not bad, but NOWHERE as OPTIMIZED as it should have been by the time of release (sorry, PRE-ELOP era). I realized then, that NOKIA lost it. ELOP saw all the waste, and that output was mediocre in terms of OS and optimization. You have to cut waste, and looks like NOKIA did not get its bang for the buck

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Lumiaman, would you kindly consider terminating your talk.maemo.org account? Haven't you already come to terms with the fact that all you're achieving is uselessly increasing the message counter while your messages fall on our deaf Linux-lover ears? Accepting one's sickness is the first step towards curing :D
Or at least let us know that you spam for a living. Although those money would be better spent on some new R&D work if you ask me, I wouldn't say no to stereo speakers after having enjoyed them for 3 and a half years on N81. :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And now how old is THAT article?

all the stock has gone down today cause of the damn southeuroppean mess especially one country...

Not everything is because of Nokias problems...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They will not destroy the mobile market, that's true, but to me they seem like they are holding back on features, specs and programs so that the laptop is still a necessity for anybody who buys a WP. Its reliance on Zune software, it's poor office app, lack of video output/docking to a monitor, that sort of thing. They want you to buy both a pc and WP even for tasks where the PC is no longer necessary. They make far more from their Windows license. Nokia will fall behind like this.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

trying to dispel myths about Elop destroying your dreams, has nothing to do with Linux lovers.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You mean Lovers like this ? :D
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1315/7...344bfae5f5.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia was downgraded once again:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8GE5U520120514

Greece is just business as usual :-) It has and will be like that for years.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Penguins with bellybuttons???
I can't say I mind

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, that is EXACTLY what the survey is like. And you know what? Most people buy their computers EXACTLY like that. They don't know squat about what market it's for, or what variant, they just like the colour, and it has Windows.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oooo... considering the new CEO at the helm, I think Nokia's head certainly knows it and "he's doing a heck of a job!" I'm pretty sure. Heh

That article isn't so old that it didn't seem perfecly relevant and still accurate on all counts. You seriously want to claim that the Nokia's stock went down JUST because of a single country's failure--a country they're not even based in? Might Nokia have weathered that far, far better if not for "Nokia's problems?" (You'll note I fixed your plural/posssessive error. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

At the end of the day, if I had remained in with my NOK stock, I would have lost 5.00 USD per share.

I've threatened folks for less than that. Nokia needs to get themselves pointed in the right direction post haste.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

My argument was more pointed at showing how MS can't do anything to stop the mobile market from spreading. In fact they might weven get run over by it. I agree with what you said though and how Nokia is cought in the middle. But serves them well for being anusholes

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

When you lay off employees and you lower headcount, you often claim it's for efficiencies and savings, right? Nokia stock is just... tightening up, getting more efficient! Streamlining! THAT'S the ticket!

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...cldLAmw87j3CxA

Microsoft is very, very quickly becoming irrelevant. Even PC gaming is starting to suffer against gaming consoles and portable gaming from phones and tablets. These new Tegra 3 (four/five-core) processors are quickly becoming INCREDIBLY capable of high-end gaming--and they're PORTABLE! That's pretty much Microsoft's last saving grace for Windows on the desktop--gaming. Beyond that, there's very little anybody NEEDS Windows for anymore and even the component manufacturers are starting to court Apple and Android manufacturers for a piece of the future. Does anybody remember 2005 when Palm was desperate enough to try to keep themselves relevant that they even started making Treo smartphones with Windows? How does history record that working out for them? Zoxir might have a point AND history to back it up. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think "irrelevant" is premature. Microsoft never did better.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploa...nue_thumb1.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You know what they say about the fire in the candle. The future is clearly mobile and MS is less than relevant there. Of course they wont disappear since 1-2 generations of IT dumbfvcks were raised to believe that active directory is better than mothers milk and there's always XBOX and Office which they will have to port to other OSes. But it will become the giant noone cares about kinda like IBM in the 90s

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

As much as I hate to say it, it's impossible to deny the continued expansion of the mobile space at the expense of the desktop segment (like danramos clearly pointed out).
Sadly, by this time it's also becoming increasingly clear that almost every other choice than WP for main OS was a better one. Not even factoring in some capital mistakes like asking developers to halt writing apps for your main OS and nonchalantly abandoning another that, for all it was worth, brought a surprise smile on the face of anybody who's had the chance to use it.
I kept thinking that maybe things would sort themselves out, that somehow they would steer themselves on the right track.
But it turns out I was wrong. Share price, market share. Most importantly, mind share.
It is my belief that Maemo, in all of its incarnations, was designed to and indeed would have become the obvious upgrade path for Nokia's high end (and by this I'm not meaning some crappy 2010 processor with a 2009 - N900 - screen resolution).
Were it not for Stephen Elop.
Therefore you are right, Lumiaman, Stephen Elop crushed my mobile phone-related dreams, and also an entire hopeful community's. (that's not to worry, I have a whole lot better things to dream and become excited about).
I will have nothing more to say here. The rest is silence (and I'm afraid, for Nokia too).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And since we were talking about MS Forbes chose Ballmer as worst CEO

"So today Microsoft, after dumping Zune, dumping its tablet, dumping Windows CE and other mobile products, is still the same company Mr. Ballmer took control over a decade ago. Microsoft is PC company, nothing more, as demand for PCs shifts to mobile. Years late to market, he has bet the company on Windows 8 – as well as the future of Dell, HP, Nokia and others. An insane bet for any CEO – and one that would have been avoided entirely had the Microsoft Board replaced Mr. Ballmer years ago with a CEO that understands the fast pace of technology shifts and would have kept Microsoft current with market trends".

Failop will be devastated

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Desktop Applications are still the only way to go if you want to do something productive, and guess what, people are actually more willing to spend money on something they need for doing important stuff.

I only use mobile and tablet when I am on to go. At home my ultrabook still does everything better and is more comfortable to use, at work I have a desktop of course.

Bottomline, the desktop still rulez and will continue to do so for a long time.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

A certain dead CEO and a certain most valuable company in the world will strongly disagree with you

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think not. They just understood better what is that "important stuff" for a big group of people.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The newest trends does not look all that bad. In europe WP has 4-7% now, from nothing just a year ago. Android is like a tsunami though. And - iOS is declining :)

http://www.gsmarena.com/kantar_andro...-news-4250.php

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

At the expense of Symbian. What good is that to Nokia? Those who bought Nokia, Nokia Symbian sales have been replaced by lower Nokia WP sales. Good for WP, bad for Nokia. All the while Android extends its lead.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Symbian is crap. Its good that Symbian is getting replaced. No one in the developed world wants Symbian, given all the other choices. Get with the program

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

WP will totally fail to establish itself as the 3rd ecosystem.

Tizen (OSS) will be the 3rd ecosystem, or now when Tizen is going to have Android (ACL) it will both make Android ecosystem stronger and make its own or can maybe even conquer and change the Android ecosystem bringing HTML5 and Qt applications and services.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You are still missing the point. Despite investing so much into R&D in the PRE-ELOP era, NOKIA came up only with N900. N900 was nice, but plagued with usual NOKIA shenanigans: laggy, jerky, stuttering, freezing, and unpredictable. This has NOTHING to do with ELOP. It had to do with previous NOKIA. ELOP was brought to change things and to change them radically. That is why you bring external person. So stop whining about ELOP, and look at the real causes of what led to Maemo/Meego demise. NOKIA is not software company. Period.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You really are a troll. Symbian is great. For a decade it was the only mobile OS worth considering. It still is the most widely used smartphone OS in the world. Sadly, time has gone past Symbian. Even so, Belle is the best UI out there, but the core OS is too complicated and time consuming to maintain compared with other OS'es.

Market share only shows current sales. Nokia hasn't made any top Symbian phone in the last year and a half since the N8. That is why Symbian is declining so fast. That is no mystery. The real question is why isn't WP climbing faster. The future for WP is not all black, but it's not exactly bright either because Android is like an unstoppable locomotive gaining more momentum every second.

WP/Nokia may actually squeeze iOS quite a bit, but against Android, no chance.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I always wonder how this portability will work in practice, as for any "serious" gaming you'd still need an extra display, a power supply, extra game controllers, a means to connect these all. Also, how does the ever increasing need for more power (gaming), and smaller devices (portable) work together (in a way that non-portable systems can be replaced)? High end gaming systems today come with 1000W power supplies, even entry level systems use hundreds of watts.

Or am I missing something, is there some revolutionary new technology in sight, that will allow future GPUs perform like current high end vidcards with only fraction of their power usage?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Symbian sold on hundreds of millions of devices right around the globe, it was the biggest selling smartphone OS in every single quarter ever (that included around 16 quarters head to head with iOS) right up until the moment Elop publicly executed it.

Compare that to the itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny little sales numbers for WP7, even with the best manufacturers in the mobile industry making extremely nice hardware for it (much better hardware than Symbian ever enjoyed) WP7 still hardly gets any takers.

If NOKIA's new feature phones don't cut it now they're dust, WP7 will have killed them.

Despite NOKIA making (imo) the finest looking smartphone in the entire history of the cosmos it's not selling well because it's running a functionally limited OS with a UI that looks like it was designed by my two year old with his building blocks.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Please tell me what you could do with an iPhone that you couldn't do with a nokia 6600?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3...&idPhone2=1827

Use the real Web instead just a web optimized for mobile.
And use it WYSIWYG-style with touches, panning, zooming, clicking.

GUI in the first iPhone was understandable even to "common people" and there was not N level hierarchies of menuitems to navigate to do something.

Before iPhone there was Blackberry which already was a winner for non technical people. Using email in BB was alot easier than with phones Nokia used to ship (except communicator which was too expensive)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Have you ever tried it? It's absolute torture!

JavaScript frameworks like QooxDoo and JQuery have introduced UI components especially designed for mobiles because trying to use 'the real web' on such a small screen sucks BIG TIME!


That was not too difficult to do with such a limited device - additional functionality brings with it greater complexity. Just rtfm, it wont kill you. This incessant dumbing-down of everything in order to cater for the lowest common denominator is not something to be pleased about.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Boy there are some dead enders here, who still profess that symbian is great. Yes, it was great, 5 years ago. 5 years is a lifetime. Move on. Symbian IS DEAD.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

thats why we european companys are stupid. 'hey, lets drop maemo anf foss and our own inovations, lets us sell out company and fire 12000 people and pay for wp licenses instead.' Stupid nokia!! Who cares if wp is selling more in european if Nokia continue go down in rest of the world??

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The shareholders do!

Shareholder wants profit. Don't care where the company is located, what os they are using or how many people they fire. It's all about the money!

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

There is no money in Nokia shares. Unless you are short, everyone lost holding NOK shares.

NOK closed at $2.89 at the NYSE today, down another 5% from yesterday. Down after they presented their "connecting the next billion" - devices in Pakistan.

I am beginning to wonder if there will be a buy out / break up soon as Nokia's parts presumably are worth more than Nokia as an ongoing concern. At least this is the only realistic hope for existing shareholders to get parts of their money back.

Or will Nokia just die like Kodak did. One day undisputed ruler, next day down and out destroyed by arrogance, wrong strategies and badder than worse execution. Dumped by their "friends" in Seattle lead by the the worst CEO (according to Forbes). If Ballmer is the worst, where does Flop rank?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Symbian IS great. It is the greatest mobile OS ever to have existed. It is being surpassed right now by - Android. By any definition of greatness (commercially) there have been two mobile OS'es: Symbian and Android. Everything ELSE is crap.

A more detailed analysis shows lots of smaller OS'es with great commercial potential. Even more detailed analysis shows greatness in UI (iOS, Swipe/Harmattan), openness (Maemo), and so on.

For all practical purposes (regardless of reason), what Nokia has done is to kill the greatest mobile OS ever to have existed; Symbian. They have killed one of potentially greatest OSes; Maemo/MeeGo, and has gone for the least successful mobile OS of all time: WP. Maybe WP will have some success, time will show, but so far the only ones who like WP/Nokia are those who have gone tired of iOS. Old Symbian/Nokia users flock to Android, along with every old Samsung user, BB user, SE user, LG .... The war is over. Android has won, for better or worse, whether we like it or not. All that is left for Nokia is to fight over the scraps with Apple, and that is not exactly a recipe for success on the stock market.

This week the Lumia 610 came into the shelves. That phone could have been the turning point, but it is priced too high. It cannot compete with similarly priced Androids, it cannot even compete with the existing Symbian phones. The N8 costs roughly the same, and it is a MUCH better phone in all respects. It can't even compete with the Lumia 710. Right now the 710 costs less. But, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, the 610 looks real good, so maybe. The Lumia 800 is dead. The Lumia 900 has taken over.

It is increasingly harder to understand what Nokia is doing. They should be creating the third ecosystem, but they try to do it with overpriced HW. Why?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Contract with Microsoft is like poison pills in Nokia, so Nokia is not interesting even to be taken over. Microsoft has Nokia by the balls still for 4 years.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And a Nokia 6600 has many features an iPhone 4S doesn't : real multitasking, open Bluetooth, external card memory, microkernel, Python programming on device (PyS60), etc.