maemo.org - Talk
Page 33 of 88 « First 233132 33 343543 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Off Topic (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82014)

marxian 2012-02-08 16:38
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1162229)
They said today, their plan B is to make plan A work, so Nokia will die with WP.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5904/elopn9.jpg

gosh 2012-02-08 17:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1162136)
I'd say it's a sign that a price reduction is necessary to boost falling demand, now that they are done with fleecing all the early adopters. There's nothing unusual about this.
What I mean is that Elop doesn't want to sell N9 phones. He has done what he can to not sell it.The price for N9 has been high for some time but has been slashed in two weeks. Maybe they understand that WP isn't going to be the success that they want it to be and they have start to shift focus?
They can't say this because they probably want to minimize the losses.

The price for N9 is now as the "Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc S"

gerbick 2012-02-08 17:10
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR
are you stupid or you dont know how to read
I'd call that a declaration of stupidity of some sorts.

How can you say that I'm mixing up sales figures and market share? They're one in the same. You sell more - and there's only so many humans on the planet- then you will have more market share.

Explain the fallacy in that. Where's the mistake in that?

I've already attempted to explain how margins come to play. Sell less and the same margin, that equates to less income. Factors like people they employ come into play, so they released 10k employees to make up the difference.

Today, they released another 4k and stopped manufacturing in Europe and Latin America to keep up their margins.

And they're still selling less. How else will they raise their margins? They're paying 14k less people, manufacturing in less places; then what?

You've somehow gotten yourself into a conversation about how you're right without really proving anything. So where is the mistake?

Nokia sells less. Fact.
Nokia makes less. Fact.
Nokia has released 14k employees to save money. Fact.
Nokia's stock is less now, thus they're valued less. Fact.
Nokia isn't as profitable now as they were in 2007. Fact.
Nokia is looking at new ways to keep their margins intact. Fact.

That's all I've said ad nauseum. So please be a dear and correct me where I'm wrong.

Cue 2012-02-08 17:19
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162253)
I'd call that a declaration of stupidity of some sorts.

How can you say that I'm mixing up sales figures and market share? They're one in the same. You sell more - and there's only so many humans on the planet- then you will have more market share.

Explain the fallacy in that. Where's the mistake in that?

I've already attempted to explain how margins come to play. Sell less and the same margin, that equates to less income. Factors like people they employ come into play, so they released 10k employees to make up the difference.

Today, they released another 4k and stopped manufacturing in Europe and Latin America to keep up their margins.

And they're still selling less. How else will they raise their margins? They're paying 14k less people, manufacturing in less places; then what?

You've somehow gotten yourself into a conversation about how you're right without really proving anything. So where is the mistake?

Nokia sells less. Fact.
Nokia makes less. Fact.
Nokia has released 14k employees to save money. Fact.
Nokia's stock is less now, thus they're valued less. Fact.
Nokia isn't as profitable now as they were in 2007. Fact.
Nokia is looking at new ways to keep their margins intact. Fact.

That's all I've said ad nauseum. So please be a dear and correct me where I'm wrong.
They are not one and the same. The market can grew therefore your sales can increase while you lose market share. Your mistake is that you are both arguing the same point but saying the other is wrong, you are both talking about before the announcement of Symbian being killed. Where market share was dropping but sales WERE increasing and higher than ever. This is GrimyHRs point. Therefore your "sell less" examples are wrong because they were not selling less at the time. There has been no proof about profit so far.

gerbick 2012-02-08 17:29
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1162259)
They are not one and the same. The market can grew therefore your sales can increase while you lose market share.
Market grew. But Nokia's sales did not.

Quote:
Your mistake is that you are both arguing the same point but saying the other is wrong, you are both talking about before the announcement of Symbian being killed.
I said sales were greater until after Elop's announcement. I've referenced that enough.

Quote:
Where market share was dropping but sales WERE increasing and higher than ever. This is GrimyHRs point. Therefore your "sell less" examples are wrong because they were not selling less at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Times
Nokia ... 77.3 million phones shipped and a 15.7% share of the market in 2011, down from 100.1 million phones shipped in 2010 for a 32.9% market share.
Nokia didn't ship more phones in 2011.

GrimyHR 2012-02-08 17:30
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162253)
I'd call that a declaration of stupidity of some sorts.

How can you say that I'm mixing up sales figures and market share? They're one in the same. You sell more - and there's only so many humans on the planet- then you will have more market share.

Explain the fallacy in that. Where's the mistake in that?

I've already attempted to explain how margins come to play. Sell less and the same margin, that equates to less income. Factors like people they employ come into play, so they released 10k employees to make up the difference.

Today, they released another 4k and stopped manufacturing in Europe and Latin America to keep up their margins.

And they're still selling less. How else will they raise their margins? They're paying 14k less people, manufacturing in less places; then what?

You've somehow gotten yourself into a conversation about how you're right without really proving anything. So where is the mistake?

Nokia sells less. Fact.
Nokia makes less. Fact.
Nokia has released 14k employees to save money. Fact.
Nokia's stock is less now, thus they're valued less. Fact.
Nokia isn't as profitable now as they were in 2007. Fact.
Nokia is looking at new ways to keep their margins intact. Fact.

That's all I've said ad nauseum. So please be a dear and correct me where I'm wrong.
no their not, that is the case only if the market is not growing(and it was growing at an extreme rate for the last few years), you obviously dont know even the simple 2nd grade math or you wouldnt say something like this

even thou the market share was gowing down the NUMBER OF DEVICES SOLD PER Q. WAS GOING UP is this so hard to understand?

GrimyHR 2012-02-08 17:34
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162268)
Market grew. But Nokia's sales did not. yes they did until nokia announced the transition to wp and killing symbian, until than the number of symbian devices sold was infact GROWING and that is the fact and the only important thing, nokia did a mistake for not continuing symbian and switching to another out of the house OS, should have stayed symbian/maemo and opened them completly, no WP, no Android, no meego



I said sales were greater until after Elop's announcement. I've referenced that enough.





Nokia didn't ship more phones in 2011.
ten chars!

MARKET SHARE != SALE NUMBERS

marxian 2012-02-08 17:41
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1162252)
What I mean is that Elop doesn't want to sell N9 phones. He has done what he can to not sell it.The price for N9 has been high for some time but has been slashed in two weeks. Maybe they understand that WP isn't going to be the success that they want it to be and they have start to shift focus?
They can't say this because they probably want to minimize the losses.

The price for N9 is now as the "Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc S"
I would like to believe this as much as anyone here, but I cannot. I think you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel pretty hard to come up with an plausible explanation other than the one I gave.

The game is over, Windoze Phone won (a pyrrhic victory), and Nokia is putting the board and pieces away. The only question is how long it will take them to discard the pieces that they no longer want.

Cue 2012-02-08 18:20
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162268)
Market grew. But Nokia's sales did not.
They did, before the announcement. Before the announcment market share was declining but sales increased because the market grew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162268)
I said sales were greater until after Elop's announcement. I've referenced that enough.
Nokia didn't ship more phones in 2011.
Exactly, hence the reason why I said you are both arguing over the same point. GrimyHR is talking about before the announcement too, but tried to correct you on the fact that sales can increase while market share drops if the market is growing, which was the case.

See

Quote:
Gerbick:
Let's put it this way... if your market share drops considerably, then your margins need to jump considerably - I haven't seen any proof of that yet.


GrimyHR:
you are mixing market share and sale numbers, if SALE NUMBERS fall THAN you need tu boost up your margins, and at the time nokia anounced that its killing symbian(around the time n8 was the top symbian device), even thou the market share percentage was down, the NUMBER OF SYMBIAN DEVICES SOLD WAS BIGGER THAN EVER!


gerbick:
And you're quite mistaken my friend.

Let's keep numbers simple.

I once sold something for $1.00 in a 1 million lot - so 1 million dollars, and it cost me 50 cents to make each and advertise. The margin would be 50 cents on each, so half a million would go into my pocket.

I now sell something for $1.00 in a half million lot - so half a million dollars and it still cost me 50 cents to make each and advertise. The margin would be the same, so quarter of a million would go into my pocket.
You are trying to prove that market share decrease is the same as sales decrease. This is wrong regardless of where Nokia finds itself now, but yes there actually was a sales decrease since the announcement but nobody is disputing that. GrimyHR there is no need for insults it's completely uncalled for.

rm42 2012-02-08 18:51
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1162291)
GrimyHR there is no need for insults it's completely uncalled for.
+1

I have to agree. Learn to win an argument with class. ;)


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:57.
Page 33 of 88 « First 233132 33 343543 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8