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-   -   Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34409)

dalonso 2010-04-15 14:15
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlon (Post 611872)
Well - the repository is there for Sygic users. Which if you've not bought it then it doesn't apply?

Its not a packaging error - the package from the Sygic repository contains the 'new' installation file for the updated app.

Neil
I'm sorry, Neil, but I cannot agree with you.

This is not the way that things work in the debian world, Maemo being a debian variant.

This is going to confuse users and readers of this forum, as anyone can find the repository through a search in the threads, and anyone is able to add the repository to the app manager.

As already said, though I could be wrong, debian policies do not allow for "incremental" updates. Every update to the available deb must contain the full application with all files, not just those "new" files.

Anyway, if this incremental update is the way Sygics wants to follow, then the debian package should have been marked with a dependency on the first package, that one from their site only available to buyers, so users like me cannot install the update from App manager.

It's the first time I found this kind of app deployment in the debian world, and due to it Sygic could be loosing customers which install an app that simply crashes without even a visual warning.

Or Sygic should make the full app available through the app manager and then deploy some activation key for buyers to activate it.

Just my 2 cents.

Rob1n 2010-04-15 18:00
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalonso (Post 611824)
I downloaded Sygic from the repository through AppManager.

Unfortunately, it is crashing with a segmentation fault. I ran it through strace and it seems that several files are missing like:

/home/opt/sygic/Drive/Maemo/skin/application.skin
/home/opt/sygic/Drive/Maemo/skin/english.lang

In fact, the full skin directory is missing.

http://sygic.com/maemo is giving now a 404, so I cannot download from the web in order to compare contents.

Can someone verify whether those files should be present, and this could be the actual reason for the crash?

Thx in advance.
I don't have that directory, and it runs fine for me.

EDIT: It does crash if you don't have the data/configuration directories installed - these are not in the mobile-maps-9 package though. There's maps packages and a mobile-maps package available, but I don't know what's in those. Otherwise you'll need to download the appropriate map installer program from Sygic - this should contain all the other files.

YoDude 2010-04-16 05:27
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalonso (Post 611914)
I'm sorry, Neil, but I cannot agree with you.

This is not the way that things work in the debian world, Maemo being a debian variant.

This is going to confuse users and readers of this forum, as anyone can find the repository through a search in the threads, and anyone is able to add the repository to the app manager.

As already said, though I could be wrong, debian policies do not allow for "incremental" updates. Every update to the available deb must contain the full application with all files, not just those "new" files.

Anyway, if this incremental update is the way Sygics wants to follow, then the debian package should have been marked with a dependency on the first package, that one from their site only available to buyers, so users like me cannot install the update from App manager.

It's the first time I found this kind of app deployment in the debian world, and due to it Sygic could be loosing customers which install an app that simply crashes without even a visual warning.

Or Sygic should make the full app available through the app manager and then deploy some activation key for buyers to activate it.

Just my 2 cents.
When were you going to pay for the app???

I'm sorry but, GTFO with they way things are done. How confused are you about that?

Maybe the way things were done are the reasons many things didn't get done.

I posted the repo that you searched for and found but that was for someone I thought had paid for the app. Now after reading you post, I'm sorry that I did.

So, I will go back and edit it out of my post and reference your post as the reason.

Thanks for the heads up dude.

dashti 2010-04-16 11:02
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
thanks for the update :)

dalonso 2010-04-16 13:57
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
When were you going to pay for the app???
Now that I know what the process of deployment for Sygic Maps is, It's clear for me that I need to pay first for downloading the app.

But look at how the majority of deployment works for other pay-apps for Maemo like angrybirds: They are downloadable but in order to use it or to add additional contents you have to pay and download an activation key.

This is what I was expecting, and this is what many other users will be expecting. In fact, there is already one other user in another thread that was caught as well in the same mistake as me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
I'm sorry but, GTFO with they way things are done. How confused are you about that?
Fortunately, I had the minimal know-how to run after the problem (strace, deb packaging), so we could start this discussion here. So I was not so confused about that.

But what about other average users adding the repository and trying the program, getting a crash without a warning? Many of them will desist and think that Sygic product is not good, unfortunately spreading the word.

And this would be a pity, as I'm sure the product deserves it's good fame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
Maybe the way things were done are the reasons many things didn't get done.
Maybe, I can agree with you on that. But again, this problem can be solved with proper packaging of the update available at the repository, so it has the Sygic's deb at their site as a pre-requisite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
I posted the repo that you searched for and found but that was for someone I thought had paid for the app. Now after reading you post, I'm sorry that I did.
Don't feel sorry about that. Your info is ok, it only needed a clarification ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
So, I will go back and edit it out of my post and reference your post as the reason.
... that you already did. So far, so good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 612938)
Thanks for the heads up dude.
You're wellcome.

YoDude 2010-04-17 00:28
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalonso (Post 613512)
Now that I know what the process of deployment for Sygic Maps is, It's clear for me that I need to pay first for downloading the app.

But look at how the majority of deployment works for other pay-apps for Maemo like angrybirds: They are downloadable but in order to use it or to add additional contents you have to pay and download an activation key.

This is what I was expecting, and this is what many other users will be expecting. In fact, there is already one other user in another thread that was caught as well in the same mistake as me.



Fortunately, I had the minimal know-how to run after the problem (strace, deb packaging), so we could start this discussion here. So I was not so confused about that.

But what about other average users adding the repository and trying the program, getting a crash without a warning? Many of them will desist and think that Sygic product is not good, unfortunately spreading the word.

And this would be a pity, as I'm sure the product deserves it's good fame.



Maybe, I can agree with you on that. But again, this problem can be solved with proper packaging of the update available at the repository, so it has the Sygic's deb at their site as a pre-requisite.



Don't feel sorry about that. Your info is ok, it only needed a clarification ...



... that you already did. So far, so good.



You're wellcome.

Perhaps the problem is with distributions like they way you mention. Perhaps a paid update for programs like Angry Birds isn't available or has taken so long to become available is because of that. I don't know for sure, I'm just commenting on my observations.

It seems to me at least, the different approach that Sygic, Mobi, and other commercial applications are now taking may be the way that needs to be followed by others in order for their products to get to market. Both of these companies maintain separate repositories and they alone control the content.

Now that I think about it, that may be one of the factors in the decision for Meego not to rely on a debian distribution. However, that is perhaps a discussion for another thread. :)

I am a consumer/enthusiast/member of maemo.org. I am sorry if my response to you seemed terse. The reasons for my abruptness I also listed in the post that I edited. Another reason was the realization that I should pro'ly edit that post. :)

***

With all that said I would like to end this post by saying...

I bought Sygic not because of need, but because it was available. To me that trumps any sales that may be lost because it was not distributed through Ovi Store or in a way that causes any less confusion.

It is a fine product and well worth the money I spent.... about half the cost of a stand alone PND.

The program is on par with a generation old personal navigation device so it has room for improvement. The fact that it could be called a clone of one of those popular PND's means that the expected road map for these improvements has already been defined and in some cases confirmed by Sygic. For consumers, that's a good thing. :)

Because most of this programs GUI and "skin" is as exposed as it is, more and more "tweaks and mods" are being discovered everyday. For enthusiasts, who as hobbyists enjoy those discoveries, this is also a good thing :)

As a maemo.org member and active forum participant I hope announcement threads like this don't devolve into discussions about how to undermine the efforts of getting these products to "our" market. In the end, and IMHO that would be a bad thing.

dalonso 2010-04-17 00:59
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 614261)
I bought Sygic not because of need, but because it was available. To me that trumps any sales that may be lost because of less confusion if it was distributed through Ovi Store.

It is a fine product and well worth the money I spent.... about half the cost of a stand alone PND.
I will of course buy the program as soon as maps for my country are available.

May I kindly ask you, though, for a third edit of your post?

Let's consider that not all people asking for help in this thread is "confused" about having to pay for the program. They may be simply confused about how to get the program, if they are used to install programs through app manager. As already explained, this was my confusion.

I do not think it was necessary at all to remove the repository info, but a simple remark about that repository being valid only if the user had previously bought the program.

I think both of us are in the same side, anyway.

Best regards.

YoDude 2010-04-17 01:33
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalonso (Post 614274)
I will of course buy the program as soon as maps for my country are available.

May I kindly ask you, though, for a third edit of your post?

Let's consider that not all people asking for help in this thread is "confused" about having to pay for the program. They may be simply confused about how to get the program, if they are used to install programs through app manager. As already explained, this was my confusion.

I do not think it was necessary at all to remove the repository info, but a simple remark about that repository being valid only if the user had previously bought the program.

I think both of us are in the same side, anyway.

Best regards.
I have edited the post yet again.

Now may I kindly ask that you read the whole thread from the begining in order to avoid any more confusion.

I would also suggest that we should not install any app from a repository we may have found from a simple search without first understanding what it is we are installing. :)

Thanks again dude.

Dr.Marcial 2010-04-17 01:48
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I tried the new update, everything worked fine, yes you need shortcutc/ctrl+backspace to get out of full screen but everything else runs fine

my only problem with this app is the lack of poi´s cant even find a starbucks, they should enable online search at least, ovi maps still finds way more places than sygic

lets hope sygic mobile maps 10 fixes this issue its a game breaker for me

TA-t3 2010-04-17 15:17
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
A lot of the trouble with the repo could have been avoided if Sygic had simply mailed the details to us customers, instead of posting a confusing reference here to start with.

nightfire 2010-04-17 18:51
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
This is ridiculous. Debian packaging standards are eloquent, simple, and derived from years of experience. There should be no exceptions.

This one is simple.

Package all of the binaries you're comfortable distributing in the open, and expose them to everyone through a public repository. These are automatically updated on user devices.

Package your proprietary additions which unlock full functionality as separate .debs that you send out-of-band (ie. with purchase/user requested update). These could contain map data, game files (graphics/sound), registration/decryption keys.. whatever. These are not automatically updated. These packages depend on the first package.

For added purchase-protection, make all binaries check and validate a license key in ~/.yourapp/license.

Startup files, icons, applinks, etc.. are in package #1. They run normally. They inform the user that additional packages and/or license keys are required, then exit.

Problem solved.

Debian packages do not support incremental upgrades, and there is a very good reason for it. If you want to use multiple packages as a form of incremental upgrade, watch your dependencies.

zdeno. 2010-04-17 19:13
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TA-t3 (Post 614851)
A lot of the trouble with the repo could have been avoided if Sygic had simply mailed the details to us customers, instead of posting a confusing reference here to start with.
yes, you're right. Additional info will be added on Sygic website and to the description of app.

Everyone can also post suggestion, how installation and updating should works (in respect of existing method, considering also another platforms not only Maemo)...

pigeond 2010-06-02 01:22
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I'm in Australia and obviously I am also wondering about Australia map. Any news with that?

Thanks.

eber42 2010-06-10 18:29
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I've bough Sygic (Europe version) from Sygic website, and it does not work at all on my N900 (PR1.2). I've emailed their support 2 days ago but got no answer (not even a ticket). I hope they have not gone bankrupt in the meantime :)

Running from command line gives this output :
Code:
n900-ebe ~ > /opt/sygic/Drive/Maemo/drive -cwd=/home/user/MyDocs/Drive/Maemo -rfull
Init: Starting Up...
title: Sygic DRIVE
> set_stream 'ALSA Playback'
Segmentation fault
strace show the same missing files as described in dalonso post.

I've tried standard kernel (so it's not overclocking related) and also tried to upgrade from Sygic repository, but it didn't solve the issue.

Just feeling a bit stuck now ... any idea ?

ceroberts75 2010-06-10 18:45
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
it is looking for the "drive" folder with the directions to everything else.


did you transfer the 3 folders to your MyDocs folder?

eber42 2010-06-10 19:56
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceroberts75 (Post 709254)
did you transfer the 3 folders to your MyDocs folder?
Oops you're right. I didn't notice the Drive directory was part of the zip file (I went asleep long before unzipping was done).

I still think Sygic gets low grade for:
  • Bad documentation: It says "Extract the ZIP archive, and copy it to the root folder of your SD card. IMPORTANT: Folders Drive, Res and Maps must be located directly in the root of your SD card – not in any other folder.", so I copied files to my SD card (/media/mmc1 and not MyDocs)
  • Bad packaging: heard about .install files ? and what about downloading data file from your application ? manual unzipping is too complicated for many users (including me :) ).
  • Bad error checking (really bad programming practice): if your software depends on some files, check for their availability, and if they are not where they are supposed to, display a friendly message explaining what to do ("segmentation fault" is not a friendly message)
  • Bad support (hello, anybody here?)

Anyway the software seems to be nice and i think i'll like it (it looks like good old fashioned gps software like tomtom), and it's incredibly faster than the sluggish ovi thingy that came with n900.

pthomas22 2010-06-10 20:08
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eber42 (Post 709226)
I've bough Sygic (Europe version) from Sygic website, and it does not work at all on my N900 (PR1.2). I've emailed their support 2 days ago but got no answer (not even a ticket). I hope they have not gone bankrupt in the meantime :)


Just feeling a bit stuck now ... any idea ?
I also bought the europe maps and had trouble installing it.
The Sygic assistant thing does not work so i had to download the zip files and install those.
I have had a lot of correspondence with their support team and have nothing but praise for them. They normally take 3 business days to respond but I found once I got a response I can email that person (the support email come from an individuals email and not a generic support account) and get a very fast response

NokiaRocks 2010-06-13 03:05
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Any news about the release date of MM 10 ?

alex25 2010-06-19 06:10
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Still no news about release date of sygic 10. Summer holidays are coming real soon now!
Would be great to have the updated version by then.

Patroclo 2010-06-19 16:02
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I need to buy sygic, but I am disappointed to see that they have 9 and not 10 version.
What do you suggest to me? To wait or to buy now? Do you know how expensive the upgrade will be?

bockersjv 2010-06-19 18:41
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patroclo (Post 721779)
I need to buy sygic, but I am disappointed to see that they have 9 and not 10 version.
What do you suggest to me? To wait or to buy now? Do you know how expensive the upgrade will be?
If you had read any of this thread you would have learnt that 10 is a free upgrade for all 9 users :D

So no excuse not to but :D

schaggo 2010-06-19 19:01
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I don't know, using 10 on Symbian instead of 9 gives me headaches, 9 is more uuhm... I dare to call it refined.
While 10 is new it lacks the refinement 9 had. 9 got polished over the years, for my taste, 10 is still too new. So I'm somewhat looking forward to 10 but I'm perfectly ok with 9 running nicely here and I'm not to tense about 10 not yet being released. Anyone with me? Guys, 9 offers no real drawbacks on regards to 10 so grab a Martini and chill by the pool.

les_garten 2010-06-19 19:25
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patroclo (Post 721779)
I need to buy sygic, but I am disappointed to see that they have 9 and not 10 version.
What do you suggest to me? To wait or to buy now? Do you know how expensive the upgrade will be?
If you don't want 9 and have to have 10, I would wait for 10 to come out. Just to make sure it makes it to market.

Supposedly 10 is a free upgrade for owners of 9.

bockersjv 2010-06-19 19:28
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten (Post 721985)
Supposedly 10 is a free upgrade for owners of 9.
"supposedly" ??? There is no supposedly, Sygic have themselves stated that it will be a free upgrade .

les_garten 2010-06-19 19:29
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 721991)
"supposedly" ??? There is no supposedly, Sygic have themselves stated that it will be a free upgrade .
I don't believe anything till it happens with the N900.

zehjotkah 2010-06-19 19:41
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
yes, SMM10 is/will be a free upgrade for SMM9 customers.
SMM10 is more polished and does not have any drawbacks.
Important new features are
- navigating directly to a contact by clicking on them (imported addressbook to Sygic)
- speedcams over internet
- traffic over internet
- weather over internet
- swipe to scroll instead of having to click a button
- map data will be upgraded for free as well, but it is also possible to use the old maps

I've also released a video about SMM10, check my signature to head over to my youtube channel.

Fencer Darkwind 2010-06-19 23:20
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
No Gulf countries for Maemo :(

NokiaRocks 2010-06-19 23:32
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
ZehJotKah, u said it's coming out "soon", but not "nokia-soon" :P
So any news about the release date ?

ALLEyezOnMe 2010-06-19 23:39
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
I really hope that MM10 will finally fix the awfully slow and buggy position updating and the totally ridiculous "pedestrian route" routing that asks me to cross roundabouts and whatnot...

Laughing Man 2010-06-20 03:23
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Suggestions for update:

- Instead of choosing avoid next # of yards. Make it so you can avoid a certain road. If 495 is backed up, I don't want to figure out how many yards or whatever measurement far it is I want to avoid.

- Allow pasting of addresses into Sygic

zehjotkah 2010-06-20 04:17
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokiaRocks (Post 722208)
zehjotkah, u said it's coming out "soon", but not "nokia-soon" :P
So any news about the release date ?
No, I don't have a specific date or any news for you except that they are still working on it.
Seems like my contact (main developer) is in vacation right now...
He deserves it!

jakiman 2010-06-20 04:47
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Sorry if this asked before. Does SMM10 have spoken street names?

andrew_85 2010-06-20 10:17
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
what about the china maps??

bockersjv 2010-06-20 11:06
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakiman (Post 722325)
Sorry if this asked before. Does SMM10 have spoken street names?
No not at present

jsbigs 2010-06-23 17:07
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
So far I am not at all happy with this product.

- My office is in Berkeley, California and Sygic puts the address in Oakland (both Alameda County).

- Driving up Highway 101 through Marin County to Healdsburg two weeks ago, Sygic continually tried to take me off of the Highway (changing from Fastest to Shortest and vice versa didn't change matters) and positioning continually put me on parallel roads next to the highway or roads even farther out (changing APS from on to of and vice versa did not change matters).

- Yesterday, driving from LAX Airport to first Carson, CA, and then to Costa Mesa, CA I encountered the exact same problems as the situation above. AND, on several occasions, Sygic gave me an error or "Unable to plan a route" or some wording to that effect.

I had been using my Palm Treo with TomTom Navigator 6 installed as a backup the last month but consciously decided to leave it at home for this business trip. Beginning to regret that.

Does anyone know where I can send feedback?

stantheboss 2010-06-23 17:13
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
lay it all out here: support@sygic.com

ceroberts75 2010-06-23 17:16
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
good luck on sending feedback. they Might read it.

maybe it will be better in 10.


it seemed to work fine with me (i am in the south bay area) and traveling from redding to san diego and even in las vegas, but i did notice my unit did the same thing the last time i used it.

ovi maps on my e90 did that too.

Hext 2010-06-24 15:10
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Does sygic support rerouting?

cardiff-blues 2010-06-24 15:12
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hext (Post 727720)
Does sygic support rerouting?
Yes it does!

SygicSupport 2010-06-25 10:47
Re: Sygic announces world-wide turn-by-turn navigation for Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbigs (Post 726573)
So far I am not at all happy with this product.

- My office is in Berkeley, California and Sygic puts the address in Oakland (both Alameda County).

- Driving up Highway 101 through Marin County to Healdsburg two weeks ago, Sygic continually tried to take me off of the Highway (changing from Fastest to Shortest and vice versa didn't change matters) and positioning continually put me on parallel roads next to the highway or roads even farther out (changing APS from on to of and vice versa did not change matters).

- Yesterday, driving from LAX Airport to first Carson, CA, and then to Costa Mesa, CA I encountered the exact same problems as the situation above. AND, on several occasions, Sygic gave me an error or "Unable to plan a route" or some wording to that effect.

I had been using my Palm Treo with TomTom Navigator 6 installed as a backup the last month but consciously decided to leave it at home for this business trip. Beginning to regret that.

Does anyone know where I can send feedback?
Hi jsbigs,

thank you for providing feedback.

We will investigate the issues you mentioned. In case we will need more info, we will contact you by private message. Hope this is fine with you.

Thank you.

Sygic Support.


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