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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

pexi	2017-10-02 06:39

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

To sum it up is sounds like you can do it with Emma in Windows and recovery + fastboot in Linux.

Sounds like change is positive and mikecomputing can calm down too ;)

Feathers McGraw

2017-10-02 06:49

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakibaki (Post 1535589)

As i understand this is the deal:

Third party vendors (Jolla) are not allowed to distribute images with the blobs inside and the workaround that Jolla was going to use before wasn't easy enough for the average user.

The new official solution for that is moving the blobs to a special partition so third party vendors can distribute their images without bundling the blobs themselves.

Thanks for providing some clear information without overreacting like some other people in this thread.

Distribution of binary blobs is a problem for all ports and this seems like a sensible solution.

If Sony do this for the other devices in their open mobile range then that's a great step forward for everyone porting any OS (including cutom ROMs like LineageOS etc.) to these devices.

Worth the delay IMO, and it probably won't stop Linux users from doing anything if you can still write to the partition from recovery.

jakibaki

2017-10-02 07:01

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw (Post 1535644)

Worth the delay IMO, and it probably won't stop Linux users from doing anything if you can still write to the partition from recovery.

Yeah, it's not even a delay in when you get the image just in when you can preorder it so no harm done at all :)

alfmar

2017-10-02 11:09

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1535594)

This really is needed to succed NOW:
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Even if its campaign succeeds and even if they manage to ship by January 2019 as they promised (63 months later than the original Jolla phone), Librem5 is just doomed. Even more than UbuntuPhone.

Sorry to redpill you, but you can't create a pure "libre" phone in a reasonable time. I heard too many project managers roaring "we'll slap some Linux distribution on it, add a few phone utilities, and we're go", and the last ones were those from Canonical (with more resources than OpenMoko and Firefox OS) and Samsung (have you ever seen someone happy with a Tizen phone?). Also I heard too many people entering a cellphone shop while shouting "quick! I need a phone with Whatsapp and Candycrush". I didn't yet hear someone whining about carrying two cellphones, a pure FOSS one and one supporting the usual killer apps™.

A brief reminder about SailfishOS:
- was built on promising technologies (Wayland, systemd, QT5/qml...)
- was created by people who previously worked on the only successful Linux phone out there (N900)
- delegated the hardware things to an Android layer (example: no need to debug GPS ports and registers if the OEM-supplied daemon takes care of them)
- was ready for daily usage since day one
- is not an imitation of some other product, and is not an existing desktop Linux with some phone utilities slapped onto it.

In short, the smallest reasonable compromise and the best results.

Even if some OEM released a blob-free opensourced phone, it will require quite a lot of time (and resources) to ship a daily usage ready "blob-less pure libre Linux" phone.

Will Purism Librem5 be a viable alternative to Sailfish phones? Or will it be just another platform where people will want to install Sailfish or some Android?

mikecomputing

2017-10-02 17:09

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by pexi (Post 1535643)

To sum it up is sounds like you can do it with Emma in Windows and recovery + fastboot in Linux.

Sounds like change is positive and mikecomputing can calm down too ;)

Serously for how long do you think that will be possible? Fact stand Sony has pissing in the boat and Xperia series is not an open platform.

When I used FP2 fastboot WAS the official flashing tool same goes for other open android phones such as nexus I guess. I don't want to use some crippled binary from random company that ponly work for broken OS'es like windows.

Sony are just same garbage as samsung/iphone and now trying locking in the user. Xperia is over for me I will not spend a second try install SFOS on the phone. I will probably sell the phone later (unrooted).

So sick and tired of locked in shitness. If I did know above a month ago I would not sell my FP2. Instead keept it and wait for:

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Indeed I just contributed for that phone. If people want true open phone they should also support librem 5.

Sony plain dead for me.

Over and out.

lantern

2017-10-02 17:12

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

mikecomputing, you're over-reacting. seriously.

mikecomputing

2017-10-02 17:24

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfmar (Post 1535655)

You don't have to believe in Librem it's up to you. But not come tell me where I should spend my money. I already spent them in wrong company that is, guess what, Sony!

Indeed FP2 was a better choice even if SFOS was not official supported. Same goes for N900, N9 and Jolla.

Then I was stupid and bought a phone from a big company like Sony and they made me just pissed.

Summary is I better sponsor upstart companies and creative people than companies like Sony.

So don't try convince me to not support Purism. Indeed I got even more convinced now that I also should buy the developer kit.

Also it is wrong compare Ubuntu phone with Librem 5. First of Canonical is a software company and they specs was huge to big. Jolla is also not a HW company. Purism has already made some Laptops.

mariusmssj

2017-10-02 20:46

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

I see where mikecomputing but this could be down to Jolla not really being great at communicating of what the hell is going on. Their blog post would be have been off just saying "Sorry we ran into some issues and had to delay stuff" or nothing at all as what they have posted just caused more confusion.

Now I am really hoping things will go well with Sony as the launch is successful but there should be a parity. If windows users get a tool that does everything with a button click and is robust and good to use, Linux users should get love too.

In two more days we should be getting more information, fingers crossed it's all good.

atbeyi

2017-10-02 21:47

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1535701)

well, Jolla has a serious PR problem, they should probably look for a better public relations experts.

mosen

2017-10-03 00:00

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atbeyi (Post 1535707)

well, Jolla has a serious PR problem, they should probably look for a better public relations experts.

Knowing the current guys a bit from lose but fruitfull contact, i can tell you it is not about the person doing it, but the task of pleasing everyone in the current setting being near impossible.

atbeyi

2017-10-03 06:55

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1535709)

Knowing the current guys a bit from lose but fruitfull contact, i can tell you it is not about the person doing it, but the task of pleasing everyone in the current setting being near impossible.

can you tell me what you understand from the highlighted sentence?

just clicked the image and it isn't readable, you can find it here:
http://archive.is/upaMP

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1507013725

mikecomputing

2017-10-03 10:52

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1535701)

It is not Jollas fault that Sony choosed to use their own Flash tool!

jakibaki

2017-10-03 11:04

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1535728)

It is not Jollas fault that Sony choosed to use their own Flash tool!

Emma already existed for a long time so why did you even buy a Sony in the first place if you've go so much of a problem with the existence of proprietary flashtools?

It's not like anyone is forcing you to use it and you can still get full access to anything that you could do using Emma by flashing the read-only partitions from recovery instead of fastboot...

kinggo

2017-10-03 13:36

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1535728)

It is not Jollas fault that Sony choosed to use their own Flash tool!

so..... what did you expect? That they will develop a new linux only tool to flash a few hundred phones?

caa	2017-10-03 13:51

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcis...ll_differences

jakibaki

2017-10-03 15:48

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Here are the official instructions for how to get the blob-partition written (both the windows and the linux-way).

This is part of the instructions for community-builds but this way will also most likely work on the official image according to sledges from the #sailfishos-porters irc! :)

EDIT: If you're already on an community-build of sailfishOS on your Xperia X you can also prepare the partition like this:

Code:

devel-su

mkdir ~/oem

mount /dev/disk/by-partlabel/oem ~/oem

rm -rf ~/oem/*

cp -ar /system/vendor/* ~/oem

umount ~/oem

rmdir ~/oem

EDIT2: I can confirm that the "linux-way" also works on macOS :)

pasko

2017-10-03 21:03

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Hi.
I just received my xperia X today and it has spent the whole afternoon downloading and installing android updates......
Now I'm thinking that this may not have been a good idea?
From the previous post i see:

Code:

Update your device to at least to Android version x-x_34.3.x.x.x with the Emma tool.

Now the device says it has compilation number: 34.2.A.0.311 with one update remaining..... Should I go ahead with the - hopefully - last update?

Thanks in advance.
Regards.

Robissimo

2017-10-03 21:39

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

The supply of the F5121 in the US seems to being drying up and the prices are creeping up. Have Sony discontinued to manufacture this model?

I was waiting to hear about North American availability of the official release before purchasing but it seems if I wait too much longer, I will have to buy a used phone or pay an exorbitant price for a new one.

My primary reason for posting is to ask if anyone knows if the delay for release to the u.s. and canada is a technical or legal issue?

B&H Photo still has some for 230usd.

mosen

2017-10-03 23:59

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

officially, only legal issues regarding payment were mentioned.
Concidering f5121s are sold regulary in the US, there should'nt be any technical problems.
@Explit offered a forward service. You should contact him personally for details.

mosen

2017-10-04 00:48

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atbeyi (Post 1535714)

can you tell me what you understand from the highlighted sentence?

in other words:
"Sony (suddenly/at some point) forced us to use emma as official way to flash, but we are not blaming them for not telling us earlier to not taint our fresh relationship"

or if you like:
"We busted up and did not read sonys instructions well enough that could have told us from the beginning we would have to use emma, as it is stated on archived developer.sonymobile.com since 08/2016"

We will never know but either way, what difference does it make?
Somehow they got aware at some late point that emma would be part of the sony story and spun it into the only positive way left, "Hello Windows users, it is easier for you now to test sfos".
(Linux users, calm down and carry on, bear with us, we can not singlehandedly change the world for you).

the quoted:

Quote:

Secondly, if you check Sony’s open devices website, this change is on their very latest news.

clearly is wrong as there are no news regarding flashing methods but i pardon james. It is not a lie but an error based on him assuming the new development he was informed about was on top of the sony developr page. so he assumed it was news.

And why i forgive him? Its people asking überfluous questions that force him into such unnecessary timewasting answers. Not me.

meatbiscuit

2017-10-04 04:35

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Thanks for making it possible for us SFOS supporters that happen to be stateside. I can't send PMs, even though I've had this account for almost 8 years..., is this offer still available?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolda (Post 1535342)

Hey all!

I am currently living in Canada (and also have US paypal and bank accounts), however, my permanent residency is in the Czech Republic (EU). I am happy to assist anyone from US/Canada who would like to buy Sailfish X. Feel free to PM me for details.

PS: It could be that there are some 'hidden' legislation-related reasons why Jolla doesn't want to sell an OS in the region. Maybe, in order to be officially allowed to do so, you need to be co-operative with some of the three-letter organizations... I do not have any information and evidence for this so don't quote me here, I'm simply trying to come up with a plausible story that sort of makes sense. Also, we should keep in mind that Sailfish X is supposed to be (at least for now) a community project. And I bet Jolla does know us - their community - and they are definitely aware there will be many Europeans who will offer assistance to many from the US (hidden pun^TM). But do you really expect them to officially write sthing like "If we wanna sell a phone OS in the US, we need to have a backdoor for organization XYZ. So we won't do that, and you guys from the US just email your mates in EU and do what needs to be done" ? I doubt. So let's wait what will be the exact conditions, but I would be surprised if they will pro-actively fight against this gray-area of software smuggling (who would believe that there is gonna be such a thing as smuggling software). Also, we should not expect them to publicly write "guys, guys, calm down, the system is designed to be hacked"

deprecated

2017-10-04 05:10

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robissimo (Post 1535765)

Go with B&H. That's where I got mine in the US, and it took only a few days to get here. A few eBay sellers might have it for slightly cheaper, but I can vouch for the fact that they were exceptionally fast and the device was brand new and sealed... unlike many on eBay.

pexi	2017-10-04 06:06

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1535679)

Use recovery and Linux to flash it. I did so to downgrade to MM and there was no problem. It is very childish to get cranky over something without even knowing the facts.

atbeyi

2017-10-04 06:57

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1535772)

the quoted:

clearly is wrong as there are no news regarding flashing methods but i pardon james. It is not a lie but an error based on him assuming the new development he was informed about was on top of the sony developr page. so he assumed it was news.

And why i forgive him? Its people asking überfluous questions that force him into such unnecessary timewasting answers. Not me.

You would definitely be right if he haven't gave this link on chat for that RECENT NEWS he has mentioned. That link points to description of Sony Flash Tool (EMMA), and it hasn't been changed for years. Other people asked him on the comments about it, i asked him in chat about it, that it is not a recent news or a news at all.

I am wondering, don't you think we should have higher expectations from a Public Relations person? If this was any other company and their PR claimed that there is a news about the topic being talked, then link to something unrelated, would your idea of that PR department be same?

jenix

2017-10-04 07:17

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atbeyi (Post 1535781)

So, James was wrong in this bit. Do you never make any mistakes? How long do you want to drag this example on to show that "Jolla is lying to us about everything" (or what do you want to prove here)?

Quote:

I am wondering, don't you think we should have higher expectations from a Public Relations person? If this was any other company and their PR claimed that there is a news about the topic being talked, then link to something unrelated, would your idea of that PR department be same?

"Any other company" probably have a bigger PR department where publications are reviewed by multiple people and adjusted until they are soulless and as uninformative as possible. Is that what you are looking for?
I don't think Jolla has the funds for a big PR department, so it's probably James alone who has to handle all that stuff. Seeing the reactions and language in the blog comments and forums, I'm frankly glad I don't have to do his work.

atbeyi

2017-10-04 07:30

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Do you think claiming there is a recent news about this new development, is informative? just a claim for a non-existent news is also soulless and uninformative, soulless because it is factually incorrect and uninformative because there is no information about it. Do you really think this is a good PR practice?

and again, all i am saying is Jolla needs a better public relations management. you can be happy about how the current state is, i am not, and i am showing why i am not.

And i understand that this can be seen as a lie told by a PR person, but i am not saying that.

P@t	2017-10-04 08:18

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atbeyi (Post 1535784)

Don't put words on my mouth, i haven't said "Jolla is lying to us about everything.".

I am saying Jolla needs a better Public Relations practice. That "wrong" or "mistake" is just an example of the PR problem of Jolla,

Do you think claiming there is a recent news about this new development, is informative? just a claim for a non-existent news is also soulless and uninformative, soulless because it is factually incorrect and uninformative because there is no information about it. Do you really think this is a good PR practice?

and again, all i am saying is Jolla needs a better public relations management. you can be happy about how the current state is, i am not, and i am showing why i am not.

And i understand that this can be seen as a lie told by a PR person, but i am not saying that.

The only consequence of us complaining and asking for better PR will be less communications from James. Because he will be careful not to say something borderline. Do not expect more resources from Jolla on PR!

mosen

2017-10-04 09:19

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by atbeyi (Post 1535784)

Don't put words on my mouth, i haven't said "Jolla is lying to us about everything.".

also my lie reference could be interpreted to have been layd into your mouth. sorry, not my intention only ment as a climax to proof the point that they are not. It is a symptom of too few manpower again and again, not of the wrong person as suggested.

lantern

2017-10-04 09:39

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

uhm, today is the sales start day, right?

mariusmssj

2017-10-04 09:41

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by lantern (Post 1535795)

uhm, today is the sales start day, right?

It is indeed!

pacman

2017-10-04 10:13

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatbiscuit (Post 1535775)

I can't send PMs, even though I've had this account for almost 8 years...,

This is probably because you have only made 4 posts. Be more chatty, and you will probably be able to PM soon ;) My guess is that you need something like 5 or 10 posts to PM.

explit

2017-10-04 10:18

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1535594)

They don't? Seriously, This perfect way to control what people run on their device.

So pissed that I bought a sony phone now. I should have keep't my FP2!

Not even Nokia with the N9 mess was that stupid as Sony is now.

This really is needed to succed NOW:

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

So sick and tired of Android domination and locked in hell.

If jolla don't port sailfish to librem I don't care it is up to them but if they are smart they do.

For me Sony is over.

I also can't understand, what problem you have with flashing the Phone with Emma?

Whats exact is the problem?
Are you afraid, that flashing with Emma, some "spy" stuff may come on your Xperia X?

Well if so, you can't use any OS at all.. Are you know what exact is inside the binary blobs, even flashed under Linux and Fastboot?

By the way, all Qualcomm Devices has this binary blobs, also FP2.

So i see no problem here...

meloferz

2017-10-04 12:16

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Seems that Jolla is updating their page for the announce, in the main page you can find two links, one for shopping and the other for Xperia X, but both of them didn't working until now

Enviado desde mi F5121 mediante Tapatalk

jenix

2017-10-04 12:23

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by meloferz (Post 1535811)

Seems that Jolla is updating their page for the announce, in the main page you can find two links, one for shopping and the other for Xperia X, but both of them didn't working until now

Right, there now is a "Use Voucher" link in the top element pointing to shop.jolla.com, which is currently password protected. And the "Read More" link points to https://jolla.com/sailfishx which currently resluts in a 404.
Let's wait and see with what Jolla is coming up.

juiceme

2017-10-04 12:44

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by explit (Post 1535800)

well i'd say it is more like problem of the principle with @mikecomputing... you should not need windoze for anything.

It is the same feeling with me, coupled with annoyance that I have to download an otherwice unuseful VM image and then learn to use windows. It has been almost two decades since I needed to use one and it must have changed during that time...

jenix

2017-10-04 12:56

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1535814)

I totally understand you and see the image problem in having to use proprietary software (windows and Emma) to be able to install an open system like SFOS.
However, as now has been pointed out multiple times: It is still possible to flash the images under Linux and skip Emma. Jolla simply is not allowed by Sony and its licenses to officially support this method. While this sucks and it would be great if Jolla could support flashing under every OS, it is definitely much harder (if not even impossible) to find another hardware partner to run SFOS at this point.

Tujutzki

2017-10-04 13:20

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

The page has been updated!

jenix

2017-10-04 13:23

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

As of October 4, 2017 only Jolla Tablet refund voucher customers can use the sales site. The wider sales opening will happen at the same time with the software delivery start.

Source: https://jolla.com/sailfishx/

Oh, Jolla...

Tujutzki

2017-10-04 13:25

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

No open sale at the moment(!), only for those with a tablet refund voucher. The sale for the rest of us will begin at the same time as the software delivery starts (target on October 11).

meloferz

2017-10-04 13:28

Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenix (Post 1535820)

Source: https://jolla.com/sailfishx/

Oh, Jolla...

Hahahaha, I can't believe... So... Well... It's like the changed their plans in the last minute to only let a few the opportunity to buy the image, and the rest of us waiting until 11th October... Well... Patient... So ****ing more patient

Enviado desde mi F5121 mediante Tapatalk

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