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-   -   Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82014)

pycage 2012-02-08 18:55
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Nokia is selling the N9 as the only remaining Harmattan device for one simple reason: to pay for the expensive MeeGo project.
The MeeGo chapter is closed. The N9 might get OS updates for years, but it won't be developed further IMHO.

Rugoz 2012-02-08 19:03
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
The N9 might get OS updates for years, but it won't be developed further IMHO.
Don't drink and write.

gosh 2012-02-08 19:13
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1162314)
Nokia is selling the N9 as the only remaining Harmattan device for one simple reason: to pay for the expensive MeeGo project.
The MeeGo chapter is closed. The N9 might get OS updates for years, but it won't be developed further IMHO.

I can't understand the stupidity among leaders at Nokia. The 2012 Q1 report will really bad. They have to understand that Symbian users are moving to other brands and systems because Nokia has stopped listen to them. You can't stop listen to your customers. Buyers for WP phones is probably those that haven't had a Nokia phone before.

ossipena 2012-02-08 19:35
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kureyon (Post 1162122)
I'm assuming that you have done the homework and that the figure quoted is the number of people that Nokia has working on Symbian. If so then they should fire them all and hire some more productive workers.
I must eat my words because a good point appeared.

The number 6800 comes from: 4000 people sacked + 2800 symbian developers moved to accenture (read: you can say no more subcontracting work and it is accenture who has to pay the devs, not nokia).

It was a straightforward conclusion:
1. drop symbian
2. lay off 6800 employers from inhouse

the symbian figure probably isn't that big alltogether when reviewed by todays numbers: 4000 blue collar people sacked around western area and replaced with chinese.

now when doing some research, I found out following:

There are some references that symbian has required approximately 3000 peoples work but gsmarenas story tells that there was ~3000 symbian developers (2800 in my numbers) + 4000 other employers,
Quote:
mostly Symbian and MeeGo R&D
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_transf...-news-2566.php

care to quess the size of MeeGo R&D? how many promilles from the whole amount? ;)

and another article in finnish about brain drain that says nokia has 13000 employers and ~50% (tolerance?!?) of them working on Symbian/MeeGo

http://www.taloussanomat.fi/informaa...at/20112959/12

That is pretty close to my initial 6800 people IMO...

GrimyHR 2012-02-08 20:00
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 1162310)
+1

I have to agree. Learn to win an argument with class. ;)
dont care about class, when i correct someone with actual facts if they continue to claim otherwise...
its not an insult if its true you know, and nevertheless i didnt insult anyone, i asked a question for which the answer could have been that he was simply ignoring my facts in which case he was the rude one... :p

gerbick 2012-02-08 20:24
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
What facts dude? Show me a link, show me some numbers. You've yet to prove anything other than you're quick to state that you're right.

Nokia shipped less phones in 2011.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/...s-apple-nokia/
http://moconews.net/article/419-repo...ip-has-sailed/
http://moconews.net/article/419-gart...n-smartphones/

They shipped less in 2011 than they did in 2010.

http://paidcontent.org/images/editor...le-sales-o.png

Quote:
But we might see Nokia have a much more drastic fall in the quarter ahead, notes Roberta Cozza, analyst at Gartner. She points out that in the last quarter, the channel bought significantly less Nokia devices, and instead reduced prices on existing stock to shift it. That resulted in a big drop in the average selling price for devices, as Nokia noted in its last earnings report.
Sold less. For less. Built less. Grabbed less share. Instead of saying that sales != market share, see that sales were less, market share was less, their margins due to discounts were less.

Or prove it otherwise with facts and less opinion.

GrimyHR 2012-02-08 20:44
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1162368)
What facts dude? Show me a link, show me some numbers. You've yet to prove anything other than you're quick to state that you're right.

Nokia shipped less phones in 2011.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/...s-apple-nokia/
http://moconews.net/article/419-repo...ip-has-sailed/
http://moconews.net/article/419-gart...n-smartphones/

They shipped less in 2011 than they did in 2010.

http://paidcontent.org/images/editor...le-sales-o.png



Sold less. For less. Built less. Grabbed less share. Instead of saying that sales != market share, see that sales were less, market share was less, their margins due to discounts were less.

Or prove it otherwise with facts and less opinion.
nokia started shipping less phones after anouncing switching to wp7 and killing symbian, until than it was only rising, so yes downfall started during 2011, but only after nokia started with negative marketing towards symbian, had this same fight on one croatian IT forum in which i provided graphs and numbers and won the argument, maybe ill bother to post them tomorow but today im going out for a couple of drinks, enjoy

qwazix 2012-02-09 08:44
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
gerbick: the mistake is that you assume there is a static number of people on the planet (see your own comment). This is true but does not mean that more and more of them buy smartphones each day.

Grimy: I believe you are talking before 2/11 and gerbick is talking about 2011 numbers where the units shipped actually declined, along with a crash in market share. So you are arguing it was a wrong move to switch to WP and gerbick is arguing that they have to do things today (sack symbian staff) to increase margins. Different arguments.

Zoxir 2012-02-09 09:25
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1162325)
I can't understand the stupidity among leaders at Nokia. The 2012 Q1 report will really bad. They have to understand that Symbian users are moving to other brands and systems because Nokia has stopped listen to them. You can't stop listen to your customers. Buyers for WP phones is probably those that haven't had a Nokia phone before.
Of course they can as long as they get money for MS to recompensate for the failed OS they provide. And I believe people that haven't had a nokia phone are very few :D

GrimyHR 2012-02-09 09:39
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1162549)
gerbick: the mistake is that you assume there is a static number of people on the planet (see your own comment). This is true but does not mean that more and more of them buy smartphones each day.

Grimy: I believe you are talking before 2/11 and gerbick is talking about 2011 numbers where the units shipped actually declined, along with a crash in market share. So you are arguing it was a wrong move to switch to WP and gerbick is arguing that they have to do things today (sack symbian staff) to increase margins. Different arguments.
but they shouldnt sack symbian but should sack wp and revitalise symbian (and maemo)


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