Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

With what Sailfish version was the tablet delivered?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

engadget review:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/11/l...-jolla-tablet/

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

1.1.9.24 - quite close, but the UI animations were jaggy at times.

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I'm waiting for the first review to mention OpenRepos. I'm not expecting it to say that they're the cure-all or even for everyone, but it would be good to know that a reviewer has done enough homework to at least mention that it's an option for some of the application gaps.

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Not a bad review. I have similar experience, except for the missing apps - especially after installing the Play store. ;)

I like the device - the hardware is solid and feels good in the hand. The software is the good old 1.1.9.28 with one small exception - the Alien Dalvik runtime is version 4.4.4, but still doesn't support Bluetooth.

Here are some screenshots from a quick AnTuTu benchmark, which ranks it rather low, but the CPU performance is ranked high.

http://bundyo.org/jolla/shots/Screen...1-22-28-38.png
http://bundyo.org/jolla/shots/Screen...1-22-26-48.png
http://bundyo.org/jolla/shots/Screen...1-22-28-59.png

And some more photos from the unboxing.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/15404062@N06/913c97

EDIT: The score looks too low for this type of processor. I guess the runtime is not enough optimized yet.

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What you're saying is that there were many i486 compatible apps at OpenRepos at the time of the review?

He claims to have used the tablet for several weeks, so even if he discovered Warehouse/OpenRepos when he received the tablet, I would say there would have been close to 0 apps for the tablet there (except for a few noarch Python apps that launch the QML files directly).


The fact that we see such reviews now seems quite odd. It is quite a good review (at least UI and HW wise), but I don't understand why they sent out review devices at that time.

I don't have enough information to judge why that happened, but I think that ideally, they should have followed one of these two schedules:

1. Send tablets with a preview - 1.1.9.x - version to developers (in a transparent process) and release the SDK to everyone.
2. Finish the final 2.0 version.
3. Send the tablets with the final version to reviewers.
4. Send the tablets to customers.

or

1. Send tablets with a preview - 1.1.9.x - version to developers (in a transparent process) and release the SDK to everyone.
2. Send the first batch with the preview OS version to (early) backers.
3. Finish the final 2.0 version.
4. Send the tablets with the final version to reviewers.
5. Send the tablets to the rest of the customers.

But it seems that they have been doing this instead:

1. Send the tablets with a preview version to reviewers, testers, and a small group of randomly chosen developers along with non-public SDK release.
2. Push the preview version to all phones and release the SDK to the public.
3. Send the tablets to early backers with the preview OS version.
4. Finish the final 2.0 version.
5. Send the rest of the tablets to customers with the final 2.0 version.

Maybe I'm making too much of it and it was just a mistake, but I think that sending the device to reviewers with a preview version of the OS in a moment when there can't be any 3rd party native apps around, as (some limited number of) developers just got it as well... ...is just a weird decision.

The fact that the developer program wasn't transparent and there were no rules or no way to apply surely didn't help either.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

urghh! i thought we were past those days. :(

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First he opens:

But does that mean this tablet is a refreshing break from the status quo?

Jolla is more interested in following its unique philosophy than reaching the widest possible audience.


Then closes:

"I can already see the appeal for tablet newcomers who have light demands"

"Well, now what?" after using the tablet for only a short while -- I'd already run out of things to do. That's no good for a market where many simply assume that an app exists for whatever they need. "



Question remains, what did you try, what do YOU need exactly?

What do tablet users that are willing to accept "unique philosophy than reaching the widest possible audience" expect from their Jolla and does Jolla at this point deliver or not?

Personally I find an OS not coming from the USA quite the refreshing break from the status quo.


I see two guilty parties for reviewer's perceived status quo:

the one demanding a refreshing break is still assuming that "apps and more apps" will mask the matter that people in general have no ready scenario for putting a tablet to good use (including the reviewer, so it seems)

Maybe it would help admitting a tablet to many is just a limited device which can't even make a call but makes an excellent sofa toy that should behave energy friendly and providing some quick access to information for which the convenience of a full keyboard laptop is not needed?

Beyond that he is unfortunately not offering his own wide experience based usage scenario for a tablet and comparing what he can or cannot do with the Jolla after living with iPad (?) around for several years.

There are several things I can think off that would be interested to be included in a review and Jolla would not necessarily get a beating.

-consuming web content (ok we got this - Engadget web site did not load pictures - maybe it is time to simplify this website a little bit)
-office connectivity and remote access including cloud and web based office productivity
-encyclopedia / dictionary
-media, domotica, drone remote control
-laptop replacement document editing (keyb, mouse connectivity, USB OTG)
-sound editing / playback
-video conferencing
-reading digital books / graphic novels
-photo editing


And of course status quo for the main tablet user will not be broken by Jolla that is recently focusing development on perfecting the Android compatibility of their OS and UI convenience towards Android users instead of "following its unique philosophy rather than reaching the widest possible audience"

The problem is not lack of apps, but the slow pace at which Jolla is working on finishing and integrating the top page of the most voted items on together.jolla.com.

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I found another short review: http://www.techanics.com/mobile/joll...id-app-support

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What kind of a conclusion is that, "a tablet which needs a more suitable home"? :confused:

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Indeed. That "review" is hardly a review at all.

"On paper, the clean, bloatware free slate looks well equipped but in reality, that isn’t how things work out."

Come on, don't let us hanging. How does it work out?

"Jolla does not state a claimed battery life but if you equate that to similarly sized tablet, that should give you enough for a day’s play."

Another one left hanging. What is the battery life? I thought you were writing a review, not a bunch of assumptions!

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But they do with their tablets. 5W ones. ;-)

When Jolla does an e-reader you might have a point.:p

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It needs to be at my home quicker

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"with unique software that needs a more suitable home."

I read it as "the OS needs a more suitable home" and I concur.

EDIT: or rather many more suitable homes than the only 2 devices in officially supported

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Is there any "reviewer" of tablets out there that would not rather be reviewing pet food or vacuum cleaners for a change?

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In the UK I paid $47.60 for the 32Gb tablet and a lastu case, its just 20% of whatever you paid - the current VAT rate

Still hasn't shipped yet though..

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Have to admit that my understanding of the wave concept is incomplete. First done?

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

And to be honest, I believe that this is the center of what Jolla needs to address and has yet to do just that. Address what you can and cannot do with this tablet. It's a piece of mobile computing that addresses no particular crowd yet fully.

The way I use a tablet will invariably be wholly different that most of you guys on this forum. And that's okay. It doesn't make my uses more important than yours, vice versa. In fact, without any hooks into the entertainment industry in one way or another - there's no Jolla Movies & Music, no Jolla Streaming Movies or Jolla Books - folks will dismiss the tablet quickly. It's not a media consumption device like an iOS or Android device.

And that's a good thing...

But it still doesn't explicitly answer what you can/cannot do with this device and sadly if left to our own devices, anybody with any experience with a tablet will invariably want certain things - the ability to read books, listen to music, grab the latest movie from one single point and/or company (read: Apple, Google, Netflix, Amazon).

It's hard to explain "freedom" to folks used to being herded into separate camps of thinking - consume media, produce art, social media participation, peruse the web and treat their tablets closer to their phones as gateways to a system that feeds them as opposed to the opposite, where you decide what you want to consume, how it's consumed and above all, how you do things.

Simply stated, Jolla could pick up on how people use their computers and that's how they'll use the tablet. The shift away from using tablets like a bigger version of their phone as opposed to using their tablets as a smaller version of their computer is perhaps key here.

Agree fully... and I say that as an American.

This... speaks to what I'm addressing. I agree with this at a much deeper level than a simple "Thanks" can convey.

Again, this is tablet as extension of phone vs. tablet as extension of computer. Jolla needs to address what they view the use cases should be as opposed to letting the uninformed think of a way through this and fail.

Photo editing? Video conferencing? I think the ease of those in other devices is way different than Jolla. On Android and iOS, you're fed by one point of entry - their stores. You can load up material via other means, but the majority of folks rely on their desktop to feed their tablets.

Jolla doesn't do that; not as far as I can tell. There's no iTunes desktop client or Play Store with web install to device.

Here we disagree. There's no native Facebook client (that I know of), the Twitter clients are half-baked (don't use the newest version of Twitter quote/retweet for instance), there's no office suite (online or offline that I know of that doesn't require a ton of installs that basically bring a true desktop office that's not optimized for touch), there's no drawing tools like any of the Adobe suite or what comes from Evernote that are native either.

There's an app gap that's as wide as Windows Phone - if you do not know about openrepos or have yet to invest time in the alternatives that do exist. But that means that you're now requiring the user to do research, invest time and actually do more than just consume media.

Jolla needs to address that, imho. Loved your post ste-phan. I think it adds to the other side of the fence in a very logical, thoroughly thought out way that should be heard more often than statements that fall very short like the aforementioned review.

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After reading Antti's blog post, what I think happened is that for some reason the factory could not accommodate the whole batch of tablets, therefore Jolla might have requested them to build whatever they can: the 250ish tablets... Just my two cents obviously...
Btw congrats to people who got theirs and keep the feedback and pics flowing, that will help us cope for the wait of our tablet :D

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Just sent a PM to mosen with my contribution details, 25.11.2014, and 17.02.2015, no invite yet, etc... for statistics.

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What homework? Do you expect from him to read a book and finish the online course on how and where to find an applications? Or maybe to learn how to recompile existing apps for phone that available on github?
Simple user just uses the tablet and what it provides. if you need to know how to find a suitable app it means there are only few apps and they are not exactly "click and install" apps =) Jolla targeted for common users and review for common users(fans and geeks do other kind of research before, don't they?).

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Well apparently:
"Jolla is more interested in following its unique philosophy than reaching the widest possible audience"
;)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Wooh tablet arrived today! :-)
Will do unboxing videos tomorrow, don't have any time today to tinker around with it today sadly :-( :P

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I wonder if anyone knows what is this philosophy :)
At the beginning i was expecting more of hack-able device and collaboration with community, but after a while I understood it's more of "sell as much as you can as fast as you can" and thus i think it's more for enduser than geeks(see maemo or meego for reference), so again if you need to explain howto do something more in one sentence, it's not that user friendly :P

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

What about sftp and gpodder?

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It depends on how long the sentence is. :)

(And sorry for gross off-topic. :P)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Good point. I've no point of reference personally; but I'm willing to bet that the reviewer or the layman would have to have those pointed out to them before they become obvious choices.

For instance... if you have an iPad, you automatically will have iTunes. Consumers are conditioned to think that way. I will not argue that's the better way to go about things (personally, I do not think that it is) but it is what it is.

But you're an informed user. Wouldn't it nice if the company that makes the product of your choice inform the other users? That's what Google and Apple have done. Jolla needs to do the same thing. Most people will never find this website in their searches for *"how to get some gosh darn music on this gosh darn Jolla tablet" and find out about gpodder. I don't even trust most management level folks in my organization to know what SFTP means.

*Okay, NOW they might

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http://new1.fjcdn.com/pictures/Troll...2c_1535950.jpg
Not sure if hrabal was trolling or art, zogg on the other hand

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Finally got my tablet today (drove to the airport and got it from DHL cause there was some mix up with customs).

For all phone users: put your backups on the microSD Card, start the tablet and install first all apps like mail, calender etc before you import your accounts. Maybe it was just cause i didn t do it that all my mail settings are gone or it is an bug.

Anyway tablet (after updating) runs 1.1.9.28 slick and fast.
Colours look very good, tablet feels quite fancy. Overall quality: cant complain. All tasks go rather fast and no lags of anyking. Updates went smoth and incredible fast (compared to phone).

What i cant and never will understand is the app situation.I remeber Dec 13 when i got the phone running beta and nowhere apps to be found. I cant believe that it is nearly the same situation with the tablet. Surely the Jolla App Store has the "basic" ones but everything from openrepos incl. warehouse doesnt work. No tweetian, wifi analyser, sailgrande, cooktimer, flowplayer etc.

Did they really sent out devices to developers? If so why not to people like veskuh to adapt tweetian? Cause it is not in Jolla Store? They consider openrepos as competition?
This really pisses me of...example: Out of the box it is impossible to watch a movie / tv series off the mSD card. What a joke.

P.S.: But i still like the tablet itself

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

OpenRepos first needs x86 executable/build, then probably framework for non-arm binaries (or maybe current target can be repurposed)

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I would really like to know how that developer device program went - I for example don't know about any third party developer actually getting one. There were some theories those hypothetical developers were under some sort of NDA but it rather looks like no third party developers got them.

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A bit off-topic, but asking anyway out of curiosity while waiting for my tablet:

How complete are the libraries and general purpose development tools provided with the tablet (or within reach from accessible repos)?

I mean, can we compile C/C++ and Gtk stuff on the tablet itself to get productivity tools like Inkscape, Libreoffice, Gimp or MyPaint up running on the tablet? Firefox? Thunderbird?

If so, is it possible to attach a mouse and have a cursor for input on the screen and use those programs as on a desktop?

Moreover, has anyone succeeded in making precompiled x86 code running on the tablet? I am thinking along the lines of Skype or Spotify...

Any success with emulators or even better, virtualizers like Virtualbox?

The chipset and hardware should be fairly "standard" to the Linux ecosystem, so my guess is that programs like these should work without too much trouble, given that they can be compiled and put on the tablet, right?

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You really should post this as a feature request on TJC. :rolleyes:


I remember to have read on Jolla's Twitter acc or in the comments of Jolla's blog that Dirkvl got invited to the developer loan program and he also made some pictures with a Tablet for his carbon fiber case campaign so there should be some third party developers who got a Jolla Tablet. :)

______________________________________

Could somone with a Jolla Tablet in his/her hands please test how many apps (with and without active ShitDroid runtime) you are able to run before the first app gets killed/suspended? :D
I hope there are enough apps available for the Tablet yet to be able to test this. :)

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Great question, seeing as XWayland went nowhere with the phone, maybe we lost all talent (seeing the amount of trolling on the board vs contructive criticism, doesn't sound too far fetched). For gkt and all other goodies we probably need weston. Will weston+gtk3(already waylanded supposedly, but again, lipstick vs weston) happen and we can run debian apps straight on the tablet? Remains to be seen, if we manage would be glorious (then again, not good for Jolla's ecosystem, but oh well)

edit: Oh and btw (also for those looking for specific use not handled by others), QtCreator works on jolla phone, so should work on the tablet (and probably useable at that), so yeah, c/c++ is a go (already is), now show me android device running eclipse

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Precompiled libs do work, but I only tested few command line utils like Midnight Commander :)

Most dev libs should be readily available - I managed to install make and pkgconfig by mistake.

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I like how anyone you disagree with is called troll nowdays.

I Asked them over twitter, there is no NDA on telling if they get the tablet, but they told they wouldn't tell because of "privacy of those users".
What I'm pretty sure that those "developer program" tablets were sent for review for bloggers. At least we've seen more of those mentioning those units than any popular dev here or on twitter (and how many popular jolla devs we have, especially that are not from here?). So yeah, community powered tablet but sales driven development :)

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I like your style

edit:
But not reading skills, literally two posts above yours:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1353

Or maybe dirk is not a developer

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Hmm... would you say that Qt based apps should be easier to get going or would that apply only to recent Qt5 code that can render on Wayland? Apart from Skype and Spotify, KDE and Qt apps like Marble, Krita, Clementine, QGIS, Konqueror, Kontact, Gwenview and Digikam would also be fantastic on the tablet.

Sigh, why is it that mobile hardware capable of running standard Linux applications is still such a pipe dream? Multitouch killed the X11 star?

I have been a bit undecided about Gnome 3 but I could see it fit on a tablet like this and actually have a fairly nice in-between interface on a device which would sometimes be used as tablet and sometimes as a laptop with some external peripherals.

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Weston should not be needed - Weston is a reference implementation of a compositor speaking the Wayland protocol - and you don't need that as you already have one such compositor called lipstick. Even in Gnome Shell on Fedora GTK3 work s just fine with Wayland without Weston, using the Gnome Shell Mutter compositor instead.

So what is needed if we want to run GTK3 apps such as Firefox, Virt Manager, Thunderbird, Corebird, etc. is to build GTK3 and all its dependencies.

I have started on this in the Mer OBS but haven't really got time to work on it lately. So anyone is welcome take over from there. :)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Qt is on the device out of the box, hence why you get QtCreator running with simple git clone/make (ok, in chroot, but again, show me eclipse compiling and running on any android, good luck). GTK3 is now wayland compatible, but expecting it to rely on weston. In theory, you should be able to run debian wayland packages without even recompile if we get weston running (x86 hype!), so all those you listed and more