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-   -   Let's talk Nokia stock! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56370)

Dave999 2012-05-30 05:59
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Cutting R&D is the only way. NOkia can't cover the loses and from a stock perspective and short term its the way to go. Nokia don't have maemo meego and leaving Symbian behind. The R&D at nokia is way to expensive for Nokia's new costume. Add to that the they get the OS from Microsoft and more staff needs to leave. Nokia simply not need that much people since nokia will not be that the big anymore. You can't live in the past when your income and sales generated more money. So from my perspective its the way. Cut hard and fast. And when the company can afford it expand, do it.

danramos 2012-05-30 07:06
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris (Post 1214756)
Cutting R&D is the only way. NOkia can't cover the loses and from a stock perspective and short term its the way to go. Nokia don't have maemo meego and leaving Symbian behind. The R&D at nokia is way to expensive for Nokia's new costume. Add to that the they get the OS from Microsoft and more staff needs to leave. Nokia simply not need that much people since nokia will not be that the big anymore. You can't live in the past when your income and sales generated more money. So from my perspective its the way. Cut hard and fast. And when the company can afford it expand, do it.
Here's another way--don't undercut your existing products even while you still depend on them.

SamGan 2012-05-30 07:16
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Nokia cutting R&D to survive is like General Motors cutting off its ability to develop new car models and selling rebadged Hyundai to survive. Nokia may survive but as a shadow of its former self selling phones designed by others that it has no control over.

Dave999 2012-05-30 07:42
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1214778)
Here's another way--don't undercut your existing products even while you still depend on them.
So how you u hndle the negative result every Q? How would you handle the value of the company?

You know you can't go on with the costs of all the things you have today??

Dared 2012-05-30 07:42
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris (Post 1214756)
Cutting R&D is the only way. NOkia can't cover the loses and from a stock perspective and short term its the way to go. Nokia don't have maemo meego and leaving Symbian behind. The R&D at nokia is way to expensive for Nokia's new costume. Add to that the they get the OS from Microsoft and more staff needs to leave. Nokia simply not need that much people since nokia will not be that the big anymore. You can't live in the past when your income and sales generated more money. So from my perspective its the way. Cut hard and fast. And when the company can afford it expand, do it.
I think you're totally missing the point. Of course, if they don't have their own OS they don't need as much R&D, but that's my point. They aren't using their own OS anymore, so therefore it's going to be harder to innovate - as any innovations they DO develop will need to be written in to WP - but also, because they have cut back on R&D, the innovations will be few and far between

Dave999 2012-05-30 07:49
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dared (Post 1214803)
I think you're totally missing the point. Of course, if they don't have their own OS they don't need as much R&D, but that's my point. They aren't using their own OS anymore, so therefore it's going to be harder to innovate - as any innovations they DO develop will need to be written in to WP - but also, because they have cut back on R&D, the innovations will be few and far between
The decision is already made. Its Windows! Nokia will not run innovation for a few years. Now its back to basics, cuting costs and get the balance in order and eventually the stock prize will slowly grow. When that is done, no matter how small the company is, start from that, and invest in R&D and other areas.

Lumiaman 2012-05-30 10:51
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Nokia is not a software company. They can not compete with more competitive companies. They were fine when nobody cared about Taliban phones, but as soon as money was to be made, big boys came in and whipped Nokia and exposed Nokia for what it is not. Nokia is not a software company.

gosh 2012-05-30 11:15
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1214880)
Nokia is not a software company. They can not compete with more competitive companies. They were fine when nobody cared about Taliban phones, but as soon as money was to be made, big boys came in and whipped Nokia and exposed Nokia for what it is not. Nokia is not a software company.
MeeGo Harmattan is open source

danramos 2012-05-30 11:33
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1214893)
MeeGo Harmattan is open source
No. hehe... just. No, it's not. It is truly open-core: lots of open-source, held hostage by lots of closed-source. You really should read some of the various threads where this was already hashed out.

gosh 2012-05-30 11:51
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1214899)
No. hehe... just. No, it's not. It is truly open-core: lots of open-source, held hostage by lots of closed-source. You really should read some of the various threads where this was already hashed out.
Do you mean that linux is closed source? MeeGo Harmattan is based on linux. And you can't compare operating systems with applications

erendorn 2012-05-30 13:25
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1214909)
Do you mean that linux is closed source? MeeGo Harmattan is based on linux. And you can't compare operating systems with applications
Linux is open source, but then, it's a kernel, and not an operating system.
The complete UI of Harmattan is closed source, not just its apps, and so are many of it's drivers (graphic drivers for sure, and probably battery and cellular drivers). Now without that the N9 is a beautifull (open source) brick.

Mer+Meego is open source (almost, their are still redistributable closed binary drivers), mer+cordia or whatever else are too. Harmattan is not. A simple test would be just trying to port it to some other device...

gosh 2012-05-30 13:57
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erendorn (Post 1214950)
Linux is open source, but then, it's a kernel, and not an operating system.
The complete UI of Harmattan is closed source, not just its apps, and so are many of it's drivers (graphic drivers for sure, and probably battery and cellular drivers).
I did check the UI Harmattan code last year, don't remember the link but it was possible to download the source code then

Lumiaman 2012-05-30 14:38
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
NOKIA cant do competitive software these days. They had maemo, that was truly a step in the right direction. And they couldnt optimize it for the masses. It simply shows that they were just outdone by better software guys. Period. Not to say they havent tried. They have. The six or 5 step plan was a good one, but exposed their inability to optimize software in a competitive environment. If it takes you 6 steps to produce Harmattan, buggy, laggy, and missing many of the features of previous steps, you are clearly not good enough to compete with the big boys. Hence, the move to WP. NOKIA tried, tried hard, but it couldnt do it. Its simple as that boys and girls.

SamGan 2012-05-30 15:09
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1214975)
NOKIA cant do competitive software these days. They had maemo, that was truly a step in the right direction. And they couldnt optimize it for the masses. It simply shows that they were just outdone by better software guys. Period. Not to say they havent tried. They have. The six or 5 step plan was a good one, but exposed their inability to optimize software in a competitive environment. If it takes you 6 steps to produce Harmattan, buggy, laggy, and missing many of the features of previous steps, you are clearly not good enough to compete with the big boys. Hence, the move to WP. NOKIA tried, tried hard, but it couldnt do it. Its simple as that boys and girls.
Whatever bugs Harmattan may have it still leaves WP7.5 behind in the dust.

Lumiaman 2012-05-30 15:26
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamGan (Post 1214990)
Whatever bugs Harmattan may have it still leaves WP7.5 behind in the dust.
Not really. For the masses, WP7.5 is smoother and better experience than N9. N9 is more capable but not as attractive for the masses.

Dared 2012-05-30 15:38
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1214994)
Not really. For the masses, WP7.5 is smoother and better experience than N9. N9 is more capable but not as attractive for the masses.
Funny you should say that. Every single one of my friends who have used my N9 have said they want one. None of them have even mentioned windows phone.

It is obvious you think differently. That's fine. But many of us disagree with your thoughts. For instance, there are no lags for me and others, great experience for me and others.

Remember, an opinion is an opinion. It is neither right not wrong. So please respect what we think :)

Lumiaman 2012-05-30 15:44
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dared (Post 1215000)
Funny you should say that. Every single one of my friends who have used my N9 have said they want one. None of them have even mentioned windows phone.

It is obvious you think differently. That's fine. But many of us disagree with you + no lags for me and others, great experience for me and others.

Remember, an opinion is an opinion. It is neither right not wrong. So please respect what we think :)
I respect your opinions. I myself have three N9s, and hope the new firmware will smooth it out. The way it is, however, it doesnt compete with iOS or Android experience, nor WP experience. Just to give you an example: I took N9 and Lumia 800 on trip using NOKIA drive. NOKIA drive worked flawlessly on 800, but took forever to find GPS on N9, and lost signal too many times to render it obsolete for my use. The problem: N9 software is not optimized. And that is the problem with Nokia software, it is not optimized out of the box and can not compete with smoothness and operational agility of other OSs. Your friends may love the flash of swipe, notification screen, and integrated IM and SMS, but I doubt they would love it after months of use.

gosh 2012-05-30 16:17
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1214994)
Not really. For the masses, WP7.5 is smoother and better experience than N9. N9 is more capable but not as attractive for the masses.
You need a very smooth phone if icons are that big. Normal phones don't need that type of scrolling.

Browsing the web needs to be smooth, other types of applications (except games) isn't that advanced.

ibrakalifa 2012-05-30 16:45
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
he hates it, but hold 3 of them, amazing, sensational, :D

thedead1440 2012-05-30 16:49
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
who here believes Lumiaman when he says he has 3 N9s?
He trolls all the time...never uses a single N9 tweak/mod...talks nonsense about the GPS which works flawlessly regardless of firmware or mods.

switch-hitter 2012-05-30 17:09
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1214994)
Not really. For the masses, WP7.5 is smoother and better experience than N9. N9 is more capable but not as attractive for the masses.
The sales figures suggest the 'masses' don't find WP7 very 'attractive' at all.

Despite NOKIA loading WP7 on by far the best looking hardware currently available on the market (imo) it just wont sell.

The problem's clearly the software, it doesn't matter which manufacturer's tried it WP7 has failed to sell in any quantity.

Hell, even putting Series 40 with the swipe UI on these things would be a big step forward, at least we'd have full bluetooth connectivity, USB MS, etc...

qgil 2012-05-30 17:14
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Just a reminder for the R&D discussion: the partnership with Microsoft is an important part of the Nokia strategy but there is more. See http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...t-us/about-us/

Dave999 2012-05-30 17:20
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 1215026)
Just a reminder for the R&D discussion: the partnership with Microsoft is an important part of the Nokia strategy but there is more. See http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...t-us/about-us/
Good stuff, but totally lost it here...

"And MeeGo?

To make sure we get ahead of the game on industry innovation evolution, our MeeGo efforts will transition into an ongoing long-term market exploration of the next generation of devices, platforms and user experiences.
"

qgil 2012-05-30 17:30
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
It's nothing else than the Nokia Strategy as explained after feb11: Nokia Windows Phone, Next Billion, Future Disruptions.

zwer 2012-05-30 17:32
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 1215026)
Just a reminder for the R&D discussion: the partnership with Microsoft is an important part of the Nokia strategy but there is more. See http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...t-us/about-us/
From the very same page (and stated as a key goal):

Quote:
Regaining leadership in the smartphone space

To help us achieve our mission, Nokia has formed a strategic partnership with Microsoft that will, we hope, see us regain lost ground in the smartphone market. Together, we intend to build a global ecosystem that surpasses anything currently in existence. The Nokia-Microsoft ecosystem will deliver differentiated and innovative products with unrivalled scale in terms of product breadth, geographical reach and brand identity.
So, they've partnered with Microsoft to regain their leadership in the smartphone space - the very same leadership they've lost after the partnership was announced and signed. Boy, this Elop is not only a genius, but clearly also a clairvoyant sage. Nokia is truly lucky to have him. Next Feb'11 he should gift each and every employee of Nokia, if there are some left by then, THIS book to celebrate his immense visionary decisions. Maybe he'll serve as an example in the 3rd edition...

Dave999 2012-05-30 17:35
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
I'm not sure I believe in this future disruptions thing. only time will tell...

qgil 2012-05-30 17:43
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
I'm not discussing beliefs, only reminding that Nokia has R&D teams working to make that strategy successful in all fronts.

zimon 2012-05-30 17:46
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
We haven't seen the contract between Nokia and Microsoft, it is not published, but there won't be any real "future disruptions" as long the contract is in effect. And there won't be any 3rd MS+Nokia ecosystem, it has already failed, but eventually that is only a good thing for the world.

shinogami 2012-05-30 17:53
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
I'm pretty sure Elop will sell everything MeeGo related away just to be absolutely sure that there's no going back. He probably did this already..

Dave999 2012-05-30 18:13
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
As shareholder I want to see products and roadmaps, but I don't see anything like that, when do you think nokia announce the next generation of lumias? is that windows 8 at the end of this year? with release 2013?

zwer 2012-05-30 18:20
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 1215040)
I'm not discussing beliefs, only reminding that Nokia has R&D teams working to make that strategy successful in all fronts.
Yeah, but the sad thing is that R&D is getting gutted each day, and what little of it has left is sent out to the ring to fight with a heavyweight champion while having one arm tied behind its back. How much can they really do when Microsoft dictates most of the shots? I, as many here have stated, don't believe in the `future disruptions` PR bullcrap anymore, don't think I ever did - even if they invest in that heavily, by the time it could bear any fruit Nokia will, sadly, be a goner or so deeply tied with Microsoft that they won't be able to milk on that.

They just can't continue for much longer like this, yet they give no indication of even getting in how deep of a ditch they are in and that they have to change at least something from their blind belief that all is going to be fine. None. For them it's all sun n' roses while Nokia sinks faster than even the skeptic and pessimist in me couldn't have predicted on the fateful Feb'11 day.

Disclaimer: When I say `Nokia` and `they`, I don't mean on honestly working people there, I mean the utterly incompetent and completely vision and tactics deprived managerial staff, so perfectly presented in the short: `Our plan B is for the plan A to work` statement.

Lumiaman 2012-05-30 19:02
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1215018)
who here believes Lumiaman when he says he has 3 N9s?
He trolls all the time...never uses a single N9 tweak/mod...talks nonsense about the GPS which works flawlessly regardless of firmware or mods.
How much? I send you a pic with white, black and blue N9. What is the bet hombre? No less than 200 good US greens

Dave999 2012-05-30 19:15
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1215114)
How much? I send you a pic with white, black and blue N9. What is the bet hombre? No less than 200 good US greens
I don't believe you.

switch-hitter 2012-05-30 19:45
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1215114)
How much? I send you a pic with white, black and blue N9. What is the bet hombre? No less than 200 good US greens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1215121)
I don't believe you.
I don't believe him either.

His use of English also makes me doubt that he's really American.

mikecomputing 2012-05-30 20:03
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1215141)
I don't believe him either.

His use of English also makes me doubt that he's really American.
Lumiaman is Elops Son

switch-hitter 2012-05-30 20:21
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 1215035)
It's nothing else than the Nokia Strategy as explained after feb11: Nokia Windows Phone, Next Billion, Future Disruptions.
How autonomous is NOKIA's feature phone division?

It seems to me if NOKIA is to be saved now this is where it's going to happen.

I rather imagine Elop will artificially limit the functionality of NOKIA's feature phones lest they should embarrass his WP7 phones though, either that or he'll restrict the markets they're available in to developing countries for fear they'd further diminish M$ sales in developed countries.

I'd like to be wrong about that but everything he's done so far makes me believe that's the way it would go down if the feature phone division did come up with something of real interest.

elemental 2012-05-30 20:25
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 1215040)
I'm not discussing beliefs, only reminding that Nokia has R&D teams working to make that strategy successful in all fronts.
I hope to see Qt5+Linux enabled phones ASAP. I know Qt5 and QtQuick 2.0 is not in mature state yet. But I hope I will get my hands on some fully supported phone (also by CEO) in late summer which has Qt5 on board. If it has Swipe UI too I think I will be with Nokia forever.

gerbick 2012-05-30 21:04
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1214909)
Do you mean that linux is closed source? MeeGo Harmattan is based on linux. And you can't compare operating systems with applications
I'd suggest that you go back and understand what Linux is. It's not an operating system, it's a kernel. It's open source.

Harmattan is an UI on top of that open source kernel. Parts of Harmattan are open source, sourced from parties outside of Nokia. But the browser, the Swipe UI and a few other parts - telephony stack, drivers and other parts - are definitely not open source. There are no downloads for that stuff.

If that's the case, link us to that please.

gerbick 2012-05-30 21:10
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1215141)
His use of English also makes me doubt that he's really American.
Wait... what have you picked up that I haven't? He seems North American in the least. His love for the Lumia 800 is the only indicator to me that he's likely not American. Those things are rather rare whereas the Lumia 900 isn't.

Zoxir 2012-05-30 21:18
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1215189)
Wait... what have you picked up that I haven't? He seems North American in the least. His love for the Lumia 800 is the only indicator to me that he's likely not American. Those things are rather rare whereas the Lumia 900 isn't.
Plus as was stated above he is Elops son or Elop himself so he is at least Canadian.


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