Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

While mobile use & touchscreens are not the primary target for Gnome 3/Gnome Shell (contrary to what some people have been continuously assuming for years ;) ) the Gnome developers do track touch screen support issues so that Gnome Shell can be used on touchscreen devices in the future.

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Is that really so? Thought weston has implementation specific code (libinput?). If lipstick can handle that then even better

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Haha! Got me there :-) Well, given the complexity of getting the graphics stack working and libraries compiled etc under Sailfish OS, would it perhaps even be easier to port Debian to the tablet and dual boot (if at all supported by the boot loader)?

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@MartinK: Ok... just one thing, if we can run weston on jolla phone/tablet as compositor, why even bother with lipstick? Jolla has no extra money to throw at that development, right? And making it feature complete with other compositors seems even more upkeep. What's going on?

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https://cdn-blog.jolla.com/wp-conten...ule_image.jpeg

Wave 2 is only 17 days away. :D that is nothing. Just relax and stay off-topic. You are doing a fine job. Take care.

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Which would infer they aren't obvious choices if someone has to tell you.

I think you're a few years or of date. It's been possible to use an iPad or iPhone without iTunes and without a desktop computer for ages. My partner's iPad has never been connected to her Mac. The previous iPad (an original) was maybe last connected 4 years ago. It's still in occasional use BTW. Both receive content without ever touching iTunes.


Not for a awhile they haven't. It's all cloud based services now. Now if only Jolla had easy to use cloud based accounts setup and an API that 3rd parties could use to add their services instead of having to launch them on OpenRepo and patch the UI.

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It might be because English is not my first language but my reading of gerbick's post was not that Apple forces the users to use iTunes but that it offers it. The users may have a choice but most of them do not bother and take the easy path.

Jolla, OTOH, does not offer a service like that, thus forcing the users to look around. Ergo, Jolla is not for the customers who are used to the default - the company making their phone's OS also providing the services.

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AFAIK even though (someone possibly correct me) libinput started as part of Weston it is now a separate and very successful input handling library that can be even used with the xserver (so Fedora uses it to handle all input on both X and wayland since F22 :) ).

But I'm not sure what the situation is with libinput on Sailfish OS (IIRC Sailfish OS predates libinput and uses some custom code as a result) and if would be needed for GTK3 or other toolkits to work.

AFAIK it is really meant as a reference compositor that is mainly used to test the Wayland protocol and stabilize planed additions before they become part of the stable Wayland protocol, not really something aspiring to be in the same league as major desktop environment compositors.

So that's why most desktop environments are adding Wayland support to their existing compositors rather than just using Weston.

Also I would assume Weston is not really targeted to work in the mobile device environment. Plus one has to take into account when lipstick has been deployed - end of 2013. Weston was certainly far less advanced back then than it is now.

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http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=38
Yup, rewrite lipstick for libinput or hack on lipstick, or wait for 5.5, why not weston again?

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Exactly this. The rest of the rhetoric as to what you can do with or without a computer is not material. It's the fact that it is an option with iOS and Android. No such option exists easily for Jolla for the uninformed... which make unfortunately up the majority.

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Hell no! NO ! NONONONONONONONONONO! :eek::eek::eek:

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Btw, I've tried yesterday running Qemu on the tablet, but I gave up when I saw the GTK3 requirement... :)

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No.

"Another option that has been in place for the Jolla phone for a while now has been OpenRepos. This is a user created and driven set of repositories that contain 3rd party applications for various platforms, including Sailfish. There are currently no applications ported to the tablet hardware on there, but once the tablet starts shipping, it won't be beyond the bounds of credibilty to expect some tablet versions to appear there. For the really adventurous, many of these applications are open source so users could, conceivably compile them on their tablets, themselves. All that said, it still doesn't fully/really address the current lack of native apps."

Any reviewer can have that paragraph free of charge and without attribution - plus I'll allow them to edit (including any typos) it to their needs. :)

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Neither option exists.

There's no desktop sync option.Cabled MTP & PTP support is dire and that's just for media anyway. Sftp requires going in to dev mode and isn't consumer friendly.

If you want to take the service/cloud route then Jolla make it incredibly hard there too with difficult to use account setup, no third party support and no 1st party or 3rd party cloud services. Even if you've the ability to setup your own cloud service using ownCloud, there's no integration there either. Even Apple allows that.

I'm totally puzzled by Jolla. They can't afford to run massive cloud service ecosystems but make it very hard to integrate with existing 3rd party services.

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No. But he could plug Sailfish OS into a search engine and have 30 minutes looking round the current ecosystem. That's how long it would have taken.

This isn't a simple user, it's a review.

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Basic qemu doesn't need gtk3 support. I use qemu on my desktop and don't have gtk3 installed. It was probably some management application that needs it.

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I used to review mountain bikes and parts for a magazine on which I was also the owner/publisher. I've sub-edited many a review also. I've also made whopping mistakes in reviews and written quick filler reviews for products that weren't important, according to our preconceptions anyway.

IME, a product gets a badly written review often because the company sending the product has made the reviewer work too hard. If you're going to send a product in for review with no charger, no covering documentation extolling it's virtues or what makes your product special then you'll quite possibly get a poor review because the reviewer has other products to review that did make their life easy. They've got pages to fill and 3000 words to write by Friday.

Not all publications are like that of course but you don't need to make it hard. A review is possibly the best and cheapest way of advertising a product. It's amazing how differently the big companies with media experience approach journalists than those new to the game.

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That's like telling to Android users that they can install things from other sources than Google Play. Sure they can, but
a) Why should they have to bother? And...
b) If Jolla wanted them to use OpenRepos, then they should tell them about it. As far as I know, OpenRepos are not supported by Jolla and should not be part of an official review in the same way that alternative Android sources should not be a part of a review of an Android device.

Now you are really straying into the land of fiction. Include that in a review and you have lost all but about 4 potential customers.

Good. So you are not entirely detached from reality ;)

I tried that. OpenRepos did not come up anywhere in the first 4 or 5 pages. (Interestingly, what did come up were links to ports to Sony and OnePlus devices. I did not know that, TMO only discusses the Nexus port.)

I then tried a search for "Sailfish apps". Again, nothing about OpenRepos. There were two links somewhere on the second page of results mentioning "unofficial third party open source apps". One was a wishlist and the other a GitHub link. None of that really helpful. And that assuming the word "unofficial" did not scare you off and you actually bothered to look.

Exactly. If a company supplying a product for a review cannot be bothered to provide the reviewer with a full set of details, including additional sources of apps, then the company gets what it deserves from that review.

Edit:
BTW, neither Jolla nor Sailfis OS Wikipedia articles mention OpenRepos either.

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I'm puzzled, too. I don't want Jolla to build a so-called "cloud" service; the reason they don't have one of their own (which translates to: they cannot try to shove the damn thing down my throat) is a huge plus compared to Apple or Google. It's a part of the freedom I expect.

On the other hand, this freedom includes freedom of choice... And freedom of choice just requires an easy way to plug into all sorts of 3rd party services, no matter if its PIM services (calendar/contacts), chat services and social networks, image sharing services, file backup etc etc etc. ("easy" meaning easy for the developer: the OS should provide generic APIs and UI elements so that nobody needs to re-invent the wheel and everyone can share URLs from the browser or pictures from the gallery via their application.)

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Bingo! It is just another example of how poor the Jolla's PR is. They actually believe their product is so fantastic it will sell itself.

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Search results are a gateway into the ecosystem. That's what the reviews need to look at - it's a new OS.

Anyway, I know, I admit it, I was wrong to expect a review to mention Openrepos, or much useful, really. I don't normally bother with professional reviews (or specialist magazines or websites). The vast majority of them are worthless (partly for the reasons you give). I only clicked through on these as I curious about what device they had been given. I'll go back to ignoring them, again. Life's too short to read them or get into pointless discussions about them. ;)

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And, once again, I just have to ask: why would Jolla actually want to sell phones/tablets? They aren't making any money off them. Their core product is Sailfish, and that is now starting to be licensed by customers that can provide Jolla with a sustainable income...

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I did not say the product is the hardware. I did not read all the reviews but those that I did read also did not put the main focus on the hardware, suggesting that the reviewers get it too (either that or they grokked very quickly that the hardware is nothing special and they focused on the one aspect that was different from anyone else).

But look at it this way. You are a new rock/pop/jazz band. The product you want to sell is the music, not the medium. Does that mean the medium on which you send the demo to the critics/publishers does not matter?

About the licensing - you do not know what is going on behind the scene. Let us see how that pans out.

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Exactly, he is developer. Not developers, but single dev. Maybe there 2-3 that we might not even know about. but there are about 5-10 well known maemo and now Jolla devs and most them asking the same question — who are devs who got devices. And now compare it to "dev" units Jolla sent to reviewers.
So again it's about what is more important: to support devs to port/create apps (even not talking about proper payments on official store app) or about sending units for reviews? :P

But yes, I do not know to read and jumping to assumptions too quick :P

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Well, yeah, except maybe not. ;) If you're Apple or Google, you're trying to get customers to buy a product that you've built yourself, that you maintain yourself, and over which you essentially have total control. (Google was originally fiddling with some fairly open concepts, but lately they've been making moves to enhance their control over Android.)

In such an environment, you've gotta sell this product as the best thing since sliced bread, because your customers sure as heck ain't gonna have any ability to modify it themselves.

Jolla, on the other hand, is offering a product that gives you a much finer degree of control. Sure, it doesn't come complete with all the bells and whistles of iOS or Android; but then, you yourself can make up the difference with your own software.

Maybe we now live in a world where only one or two companies can write their own software, and everyone else has to just live with the results. But if not, then Jolla is acting rationally -- the point is not to show that they have a full-blown iOS / Android level OS that already serves every need of the end-user, but rather that they've got a customizable system available that has already done all of the hard GUI work for you. You only need to install your own middleware into the system, and poof, your mobile device is ready to ship.

Anyway, that's my theory. :)

tl;dr: Jolla doesn't need to show that they themselves have produced the next iPhone. It's enough to show that they've got a pleasing and usable GUI, that licensees can enhance to turn into their own custom iPhone.

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Another thing that occurred to me regarding this "Sailfish as a product" idea. If you want to showcase how fantastic your new OS is, would it not be better to demonstrate it by proving that you do not need a custom HW to go with it? In other words, take a well-known existing device, load your OS onto it and show how much better it is than the OS the device originally came with. Making your own HW just sends mixed messages.

If that is the plan, then I hope it will come quickly (note that I am deliberately avoiding the 4-letter s-word that Jolla users have learned to treat as profanity). As far as I know, all ports to other HW so far have been the results of a community effort and none of them are officially supported.

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I see it as a direct result of what is happening in chinese phone and tablet markets. If you buy Android phone or tablet in China it is very likely there won't be any Google apps and services installed or available for the device because they have been removed by the vendor.

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There may be legal restrictions how you can use other manufacturers devices to promote your own. Also, doing it would send a message that you can install Sailfish OS on existing devices (which is partially true) and if it's reviewed like that, general public interprets it like supported way, which it is not. N9 and N950 were used as developer devices for Sailfish, but for legal reasons Jolla could not officially support Sailfish on those devices. So, having those "spearhead devices" seems to be the only sensible option to have at least something supported shipping, until there are manufacturers willing to license and launch devices using Sailfish. Maybe this will clear out once the split between HW and SW companies is finished.

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Another update available @ Jolla Blog:

https://blog.jolla.com/tablet_faq/

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Absolutely. I don't want them too either but then...

Bingo. And that's what I loved about the N9 and N900. You plugged in services not apps and it became a part of the phone. Somewhere along the way that unique experience has been lost.

I appreciate that today some of those companies are even more precious about their APIs than before and Jolla isn't Nokia so their influence or ability to licence is not in the same league but we've enough creative people in the community that could unofficially hack an API if only there was somewhere to plumb it in to. That's the disappointing thing with Sailfish 2.0. We're no closer to what we had in the N9 4 years ago.

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IIRC that was because they would have had to ship binary blobs of copyrighted software that belonged to Nokia and they didn't have a licence to do that. It wasn't because of trade dress restrictions.

It's not the case when they're bunging their software with libhybris over a Cyanogen/AOSP base.

(as an aside - Sony just released Marshmallow AOSP for the as yet to ship Z5 & Z5 compact. Now that would be a cool device to see with Sailfish)

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Now, this is a nice lengthy and balanced review by Deborah Campbell for argyllfreepress.com

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Got my Tablet today :D

Unfortunately I have problems with the battery, it charges to 100% but when I disconnect the charger it says immediately 49%. Battery resistance test fails also :(

Anyone with similar Problems?

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This is why you should include charger ;)

Im sorry to hear that.

try another charger/Usb cable source?

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gPodder has been there from the beginning as a Python-only app that runs on any architecture. gPodder is not missing on the tablet.

And sftp/scp is available on the command line. :)

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The requirement is in the qemu-system-i386 binary from the openSUSE repos.

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Aint needed.
I build qemu for Sailfish, works good (but og course, slow)

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If they need to bundle binary blobs needed for the HW to work, they would need to license that also. It has been restrictive even with Jolla phone (hence, no flashable images).

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Made an unboxing video :P ( self promotion hehe )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQz77aLaY

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You are a rock! Thank you.

Edit: man, that background sound. I can't really handle that in my ears. Just want to turn it off. Love the video, though.