maemo.org - Talk - N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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- Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)

- - N900 - Yes, it sucks. (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35009)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by etuoyo (Post 392914)

- there is no way to edit contact info

May I suggest that you RTFM?

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there is the possibility of corrupted memory;

Whatever it means, "possibility of corrupted memory" is equally possible on any other device :)

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there is no skype video calling;

Is there any other phone that has it?

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RSS seem to have issues;

What issues? Unsmooth scrolling?

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the music player is not very intuitive.

It depends on how good intuition one has :)
Mine apparently serves me well, as I could make a playlist, start playback, pause it, resume it, and then close the player when I got bored with the music. Have I missed something? :)

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I also suspect the music through headphones will not be loud enough for me.

So, you basically grabbed one or two guys' complaints off the net and added some SUSPECTIONS of yours and it made you so deeply disappointed with the device?

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I have heard that the device is completely open and this community can do amazing things with the device and feel in blanks Nokia has left. However, I am not a developer. What if no one can correct any of the issues or no one cares about things that are important to me such as custom ringtones? What if this is as buggy as the N97?

What if a huge comet strikes Earth tomorrow?

Let's be JUST A LITTLE BIT more optimistic :p

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by My-Symbian.com (Post 392833)

I think that the guy might want to consider that the N900 has 800x480 screen which - compared to iPhone's 320x480 - is TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE pixels to process at ANY time. The same hardware (CPU/GPU) gets 2.5 times higher load than on the iPhone. And for such a considerably increased load, I'd say that the result is more than satisfactory, and surely a subject to some further optimizations. This device has been on the market for just DAYS, for God's sake!

Secondly, maybe he should remind himself that the iPhone does NOT support Flash in the browser. It just SKIPS Flash content, which is often quite heavy. And the N900 browser has to deal with it. This also has some influence on less smooth scrolling.

So there are at least two factors that objectively affect performance. When rendering a web page, the N900 simply has A LOT MORE to do than the iPhone.

If that hardly (if at all - for "normal" users) noticeable scrolling jerkiness is the price to pay for 2.5 times higher resolution display and full Flash support in the browser then I am happy to pay the price as the "issues" that annoy him so much actually do not exist for me.

Regarding his complaints about the product not delivering quality and functionality he'd expect, maybe he could answer the following simple questions:

- does Bluetooth (the most crippled in the industry) on the iPhone deliver functionality one might expect from something that's advertised as the 'most powerful mobile platform'?

- does iPhone's 3 Megapixel camera without Flash deliver any usable functionality and quality AT NIGHT? Or is the iPhone supposed to be used in daylight only?

- has he already forgotten that it took Apple *TWO YEARS* and two device generations to implement on the iPhone as basic things as MMS, voice dialing, video recording, copy & paste, allow any GPS navigation to be released for it, etc. If he was patient enough to wait two years for Apple to do it, maybe he should give Nokia at least a couple of months and see what the upcoming firmware updates will bring?

It always puzzles me how iPhone users excuse it for having to wait two years for MMS or video recording, don't mind not having Flash support in the browser or even the simplest LED flashlight for the camera after 2.5 years and three generations of the device, and so on, while they're always the first to complain and throw mud at other devices for as silly and unimportant things as some miliseconds long scrolling unsmoothness I am not even able to see.

Maybe iPhone users should remind themselves how the first iPhone worked, what was it delivering and how long it took to add the most simple things to it. I'm sure we'll see most of the current issues fixed and missing features added in months, and not years like in case of the iPhone whose owners still wait for fully functional Bluetooth or Adobe Flash support, and got things like video recording or copy & paste only in mid-2009, five years after the rest of the world.

Shortly speaking: if you're able to wait YEARS for Apple to fix and add things to the iPhone, kindly consider waiting at least a couple of months for Nokia to fix and add things on Maemo, which only DEBUTED on the smartphone market.

Just my $0.001.

Best regards,
Michal Jerz
My-Symbian.com
My-Maemo.com (in a week or so)

I in part agree, But you must also remember 2 years ago the Apple/ iPhone mobile os and UI was a million miles ahead of what any one else was thinking let alone trying to implement. And while I find the N900 and Maemo5 compelling. Nokia is playing catch up. and when they get to see the mistakes made before them and repeat the same mistakes, ie MMS etc. And see what millions and millions of people want. Like apps. Ovi store is a pitty. The market place and masses have spoken. And Nokia up untill now has failed to react. Example, Nokia's market share going south in a hurry. Give people what they want, and what they expect, and they will return.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Raubtier (Post 389371)

funny...

there is a thread dedicated for new owners and their experiences and you choose to create your own whine-thread..

i guess it just means that you are desperately looking for attention..

Yeah that's really helpful.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daperl (Post 392852)

I'm sorry you're not enjoying your experience as much as you hoped, but you have a premier device in your hand. You probably don't want to hear this but I'm gonna spew anyway.

These Maemo devices wouldn't exist if Nokia went it alone. And partnering with the upper tier of FOSS has been the Maemo creed from the beginning. It's a great thing, but it's a rocky path to the blissful green pastures. Everything's relative, so for a geek like me I'm already on the doorstep of the promise land. The pluses are so big that I'll even put up with a worthless hardware keyboard hangin' off of my device. :)

I know you're expecting something closer to perfection, but you're in the middle of a process, and Nokia has been embarrassingly upfront about it. But here is a high level question that makes my decisions easy: Where is everyone going? Take your pick: Google, Apple, Sony... They're control freaks. All of them. And they partner with control freaks. If their products are excellent and people want them, who am I to say anything. But where can they go? Only towards more control. I say let them fight it out; they're still going to have to adhere to standards and such, so let them try and cram their visions down my throat. And even though I like and use some of their products, I have my own dreams and visions; we all do, and Nokia has given us a great playground such that I have done things in the last two years that were just fantasy for me before the n800. But these devices have been proven to be much more than just playthings.

Anyway, again, it's a bummer about your new toy, Nokia seems to have a gun to their head and I'm not here to make excuses for them. And trust me, I'm not in good favor with their presence here, but Maemo and all that that implies is still the best thing going as far I'm concerned. So as I see it, you have three choices:

- Hang in there, learn about all the Maemo offerings, and watch things evolve and improve. Maybe even participate.
- Return the device; get something else or not. All the while monitoring this board for the progress you're looking for.
- or, return the device and find the gadget and community that suits you better.

Regardless, don't think this community takes things standing down; I think you already know that from this thread, but I'm talking about from Nokia also. We are all trying to push high standards, but knowing how to do that in this environment is challenging. I'm still learning.

And as far as how I spend my development time, I never know how that's gonna go till I wake up in the morning. :) Welcome to the wild frontier of maemo.org!

The voice of reason. Thank you

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f pickels (Post 392937)

Don't get me wrong but I really do not think that iPhone OS 2 years ago was anywhere near being "what anyone else was thinking let alone trying to implement".

Please remind yourself that iPhone wasn't even meant to allow any 3rd party software. Apple changed this, quite unwillingly, in the last moment. Multitasking known from 9210 Communicator in 2001 hasn't reached the iPhone even by now. AppStore? Yes, it is a commercial success. But I get nightmares when I think that the same communist "approval/disapproval" processes could be applied to Maemo software. 100.000 applications? According to the recently published metrics, the 1000th "most popular" app in the AppStore only has 1.8% downloads and the 2000th one has 0.5% or so. So people only download some 1-2 thousand apps and the remaining 98.000 (i.e. 98%) are unloved and unused. And so on.

Apple indeed introduced a very nice and intuitive UI and great technological innovation (multitouch). But that's IT. Two years ago the iPhone actually had NOTHING but that, not even 3G, or Bluetooth, or usable camera, or video recording, or GPS, or millions of things everyone else had. Add to it that awful policy of serious limitations, locking the OS from the user, blocking lots of important features (apparently mainly to have something "new" for the next model), pushy and not very honest advertising methods, and you get what DETERED me from getting the iPhone for myself for good, even though I liked Apple and their computers VERY MUCH in '80s and '90s.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by My-Symbian.com (Post 392916)

But "random reboots" is not on that list.

Search. There's a few posts/threads about it.

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I must be very lucky then.

Yes, you are.

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The N900 isn't perfect, and so isn't the iPhone. Nothing is.

Whomever has said that?

I mean, for one moment, point to me where anybody with an ounce of credibility has ever said that the iPhone is perfect? I mean, this level of fanaticism on these boards - or any board for that matter, I despise fanboys with a passion because they're largely unrealistic and not honestly able to see facts stated to them as they are exactly stated. Instead it becomes some hyperbole that in the long-run will actually decrease how serious people are going regard whatever is said around here.

Nobody has ever said the iPhone is perfect. I've had a couple of rants against the very phone I own. And yet, I'm realistic enough to know that I do not want to re-enter a situation where I have a phone that does not act and behave beyond what I already have. I refuse to go from buggy (iPhone) back to buggy (N900).

And thanks for selectively quoting me.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

P.S.

Even if what Apple introduced 2 years ago really was a miracle, what does it have to do with N900's slower scrolling than the iPhone, probably because of its 2.5 times higher screen resolution that (the same as on the iPhone) CPU has to handle and Flash support in the browser?

I don't see much connections.

One can't blame 1600x1200 on PC in Quake Arena giving lower frame rate than 640x480. Everyone knows it's a price to pay for better resolution and more details.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 392960)

Search. There's a few posts/threads about it.

Do you want me to search for WHAT? For that *I* (I mean me, myself) have not experienced any reboots over THREE MONTHS of using the device? I didn't. Believe it or not, at your preference.

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Whomever has said that?

I said that.
Am I allowed to express my opinions?

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I mean, for one moment, point to me where anybody with an ounce of credibility has ever said that the iPhone is perfect?

Did I ever say that anyone said so?
It was me who said that neither the N900, nor the iPhone, nor anything else is perfect.

What is that you don't understand, or accept, about it?

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I mean, this level of fanaticism on these boards - or any board for that matter, I despise fanboys with a passion because they're largely unrealistic and not honestly able to see facts stated

I don't like being a judge in my own case, so please visit my website - My-Symbian.com - which I've been running for 10 years now, and ask any of our 130.000 registered users if over all those years I gave anyone any reasons to consider me a fanatic or a fanboy and therefore if anyone considers me as such.

Then let me know what they said.

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Nobody has ever said the iPhone is perfect.

Broken record, huh?

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I refuse to go from buggy (iPhone) back to buggy (N900).

And you consider it buggy based on WHAT? Have you ever even just touched it?

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And thanks for selectively quoting me.

Definitely not worse than how you twisted the "iPhone isn't perfect" sentence of mine.... Mutuality is a virtue.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

My-Symbian, no offense but you have made no valid points so far. The video you posted on youtube did not address any of my original concerns and even tried to hide some:

- you used my-symbian.com to demonstrate (very light site) instead of engadget
- you scrolled pages at a very low zoom level so there is basically almost nothing to scroll
- the RSS reader had 2 text entries you were scrolling which was addressed in my RSS video
- you did not address the issues about the music widget I brought up at all but instead used media player.

etc etc.

Then, the posts you made here are about the iPhone alone. Why? Why are we comparing it to the iPhone when I posted several videos that clearly showed how crappy the scrolling is. Who cares if the iPhone is smooth or not? We are talking about the N900 here.

Why are we bringing up the age of the device? THIS IS MAEMO 5, not 1, 2, 3, or 4. What are you saying?

Why are we trying to compare things to 2-3 years ago when the iPhone was out? THIS IS NOT 3 YEARS AGO.

I still get accusations of how petty my problems are. Really...Let's see, In under a week I have owned the device here are some problems to get you thinking:

1. Browser has some sort of performance degradation issues. The longer the phone is on, the slower it seems to get.
2. The browser crashes randomly. (at least once a day so far)
3. Device was not accepting any calls even though it was running perfectly. A friend called me on my other phone and I rebooted the N900 bringing it back to normal. Obviously the phone part somehow crashed with no indication what so ever.
4. Device was stuck in portrait mode just tonight. I had to reboot the device to make it switch back to landscape again.

This barely scrapes the surface. You want to talk about GPUs and graphics performance? How about the fact that the phone can't scroll 5 images without noticeable deformation and tearing of the images? This is poor design and programming.

Stop making excuses for this device and Nokia. They have no excuses left after the slew of crappy phones they put out in the past few years (which I own quite a few of). This is not the same market anymore where they can simply rename their phone to a mobile computer and explain all missing features as intentional. EVERY SMARTPHONE OUT THERE IS A MOBILE COMPUTER.

Nokia is not the measuring stick anymore and has not been for some time. Learn from your mistakes and improve your products or go die a lonely death. There are so many other options out there that nobody will care Nokia...really.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Megacrazy (Post 392972)

EVERY SMARTPHONE OUT THERE IS A MOBILE COMPUTER.

I disagree with that, but whatever. :rolleyes: