Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Well, there is the SD card that you can remove, right? Uhm... good question: can you remove/insert the SD card while the device is on

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Lotsa ways of doing that.
For example my solution is following; snapping a photo with the device triggers rsync to my cloud, where the uploaded photo is added to my album script and immediately accesible via my web interface.

Simple and elegant, requires no actions whatsoever... take photo, and surf to the page with whatever equipment you have...

On the occasion network is unreacahble, for example if I am in the woods hunting for mushrooms, when I come back to civilized world I just trigger rsync and my taken snaps are processed. :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

sounds just what I need, but a bit above my level. Can you point me to some set up instructions - I'm good at following them, even when I don't know quite what I'm doing:-)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It is easy to remove without turning off the Jolla, as is the Microsim.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Good question. Where does the SD card mount in the device, BTW, and how do you define what of your data should be placed there and what on other drives? :D

I have not yet tried SD-card on the device as I am searching for the least expensive[*] 64G card ATM....

[*] I won't say cheapest here as the damn chips cost a fortune...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I heard from a very good source that Jolla expects you to turn off the phone when removing/inserting SIM cards. Glad to know that it works with the phone on though, but probably best not to overuse the undocumented feature.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

always thought removing Sd cards from a live device without unmounting was a recipe for corrupting them

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

A surprisingly simple setup compared to the overly technical task of plugging a cable into your PC... Rsync is known to be the most downloaded app for each operating system. people just love it. :p

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

rsync is as awesome as it is dangerous. It can be twice as dangerous if you inlcude the --delete parameter.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

You can start by looking at my cloudsync.sh thread :D
It's pretty simple thing, implemented in a shell script and python...

As for the server side thing in my cloud, it is pretty much similar thing, I also have there a python script that gets notified of incoming data and weaves HTML from it.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Experimental design: Drop Jolla phone from approximately 1,4m height to the floor. Record possible physical effects on the phone.

Experiment took place: About 5 minutes ago (unintentionally). The phone was dropped onto a laboratory floor (semi-soft).

Experiment performed by: Rauha.

Report:: No physical damage observed. Other half remained firmly attached to the phone. Lots of short term emotional damage.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Keep calm and enjoy other half

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Can you install ".deb" files on Sailfish?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

What is the alternative?

Using my phone as a USB stick saved me from a lot of stress in many circumstances.

I also use a mobile web server to share stuff between phone and but that works only in places where I have WIFI network access.

Thanks for sharing your creative solutions for the post-mass storage era.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Kindly describe the surface composition of "the floor" and possible point of inpact on the Jolla :p

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Nope, the package format is RPM.
OTOH, you can convert DEB's to RPM, if you really have something you cannot find a native package for.
Of course you have to make sure that all needed dependencies are met.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

If anyone's going to install an android browser get the default AOSP browser and turn on the PIE controls, and similarly I hope its possible to turn on PIE controls within Android applications, gears the OS much more towards gestures, yet will confuses people between two difference OS paradigms

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Wouldn't recommend the cheapest.. I have bad experiences with inconsistent copies of the Sandisk Ultra 64GB
One works perfectly , the other continues to give errors in same PV 808. However I can use the tricky one without errors the PC.
Access times are also pretty bad.
Next time I will try a Samsung branded one.
Keep this in mind when we start comparing 64GB card performances.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Well, for mass storage mode you need to tether the device to your PC by USB cable, right?
So what is keeping you from using NFS mount or SAMBA mount to access the device over USB?
Or if you just quickly need to transfer some files use sftp or scp...
All those protocols work both over WLAN and over USB networking :)

And added bonus with network file systems; with USB mass memory mode you only get access to the partition that is exported, with filesystem access you get all the data on the device to your sticky paws :D
And there's no need to umount the exported FS, which is a real pain...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I can't agree more, especially owning a GoPro Hero 3. I have a Delkin (I think). There is another brand in the US that is quite good (go to gopro.com and search for recommended ones). They are good quality+fast.

Samsung is also there, and it is the cheapest. But I can't trust Samsung. It's a personal thing. SanDisk, sadly, disappointed me.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Support and good tidings aside; how are you guys truly finding the Jolla phone after some real usage and time with it?

Negatives outweighed by the positives? Do you agree with the mainstream media and how they're saying the UI is confusing (somehow) to them? Do you feel like it lived up to your expectations?

Just curious since it seems some folks are just far right or far left on how they like/dislike the Jolla phone.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Screen is small next device must have a bigger screen. Screen size is a bit confusing indeed.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Haven't had a look at the script you attached later on but does it include detection of WiFi/cell internet? I have a rather... light... data package of 1GB a month on my main number. Having the script pushing out 8MP photos automagically might not be such a good choice for me :p

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

What photo application are you using on the desktop? Most I've tried support MTP to get images off cameras and phones. IPhoto at least on a Mac does even if the OS itself doesn't support file transfer in general through the Finder with MTP.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Sure, overall I have a very positive feel about the device.
There are negatives, like the browser feels a bit half-baked and lacks the landscape mode, but I tend to forget that as the device feels so pleasing in hand and is joy to use.

If you ever used N9, the UI is very natural to you.
I did the experiment today that I gave my device to somebody who had never used N9 before, and watched for about a minute how he interacted with it. Then I showed him how to open the tutorial and he went throught with that. That was enough for him to grasp how the UI is supposed to be used :D

I'd say same goes for anything new that's launcehd onto people. Some take it with open mind and some have prejudices and tend to hate anything unfamiliar...

@daveDave999, if anything the Jolla device is just a tad too large. N9 ws absolutely the perfect size for onehanded operation, Jolla device requires me to stretch my fingers then I execute the "close device" gesture with one hand...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Yes, on my cloudsync script I have a check for the current connection setup, for the reason that it uses either the local IP address of my server when connected via my home WLAN or the public IP address of my server when I am on 3G or BYOD WLAN of my work place :)

On N9 I have a modification in the ifup scripts that detects when I enter my home WLAN and automatically triggers sync of everything.

I'd say you should for example modify your syncscript so that it bails out if not connected to WLAN, and does the full sync when you enter your lair.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

To be honest haven't tried since I read it wasn't supported:-( When next near my Mac I will experiment with iPhoto, thanks for the heads up

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I appreciate your expert suggestion.
However, what is keeping me is that I just want to plug the phone in any PC, be it girlfriends, colleague's, friend's to transfer a few pictures of movies.
Without installing any client, need for password of Wlan, or local administrator.
What I do need is security to turn USB mass storage off on my phone though.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I was thinking of getting both a Nexus 5 and a Jolla mobile and waiting till Sailfish is on Nexus 5. But it seems that one handed operations on a 5 inch screen may not suit my hands.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

MTP is it? Now that finally explains the annoying window I have to click away whenever I plug my Nokia into OSX ready to browse for my phone for pictures through OSX Finder. ;)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

What would be best regarding mass storage is if I could partition the SD card and define one for it that would live unmounted. Then I could use the device the way ste-phan suggests, use MTP as well. So, best of both worlds.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I've only had it since Tuesday so this is based on rather short time with it.

Lets start with noting that I'm glad that I bought it. One finnish reviewer called it rough & uncut diamond, and I think that is pretty good way of describing it. I think that most people on this forum, who have Maemo/Meego background, would like it as well.

But I don’t think that it’s really yet ready for the wider consumer market. Still too many things that would brake the experience for the (in)famous average consumer. For example, the browser was pretty much on alpha-stage before the latest update. Now its something like semi-usable beta software. The Yandex store app is also very buggy. I still cant get it to work and I know that there are many users with same problem. It would cause lots of trouble to people with no knowledge of how to get apps elsewhere. The Jolla appstore has way too few items for the mass market consumer. I’ve also noticed frustrated questions from users on finnish forums about pretty basic functionality that they just can’t figure out, like how to set an alarm (clock app -> upper menu -> set new alarm).

My personal main gripes are the browser, the way that Android apps ‘break’ the Sailfish UI, lack of LTE, camera and lack of landscape. Most of the great multitasking UI & functionality is wasted at the moment because of having to use Android apps. For example, swiping to close an Android app will close all Android apps. Annoying as hell since I just got used to swiping. Closing Firefox kills my Spotify stream as well. So now I’ve to somehow remember which apps to swipe and which not.

The positives do however definitely weigh more than negatives in my case. But I think it turns out to be a good thing that Jolla has only one retail partner in one small market. They get time to even out the kinks and hopefully it will be ready for wider audiences when/if they get more distribution deals.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It is mounted all the time when it is in its place, so it is risky to remove it when the phone is powered on.

If the phone happens to be writing to the card (applications writing, updating metadata, updating access times) when removing it, there is a real risk of corrupting the file system or the flash itself.

So I wouldn't do it live, but if you want to live on the edge :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

whats wrong with sftp/bt transfers?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Device is /dev/mmcblk1p1 and it is mounted as /run/user/100000/media/sdcard as VFAT with codepage cp437 and charset ISO 8859-1, at least with FAT formated cards.

Apps don't offer possibility to write to the microSD card at the moment. Hopefully in the future. Tracker is following the card so stuff that you put there is available to all apps that utilize the tracker data.

I have made a symlink from nemo user's home directory to microSD card so that I can access the card with the MTP PC connectivity:

ln -s /run/user/100000/media/sdcard /home/nemo/sdcard


Good quality 64G cards are so expensive that I didn't see any reason to buy one. I bought 32G Kingston with SD adapter so that I could connect the same card with my laptop computer without the phone if needed.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Many PCs just don't have bluetooth at all.

SFTP is out of this world for the average consumer. Have you ever seen anyone who's not a nerd use it?

My use case is quite simple: I want to transfer just any file (text, image, audio, windows executable, spreadsheet, powerpoint...) to my phone from a PC or laptop and retrieve it later from another PC. I was not prepared for the situation, so I didn't set up any application on the phone to support me. Also, I have no control over the 2 PCs in question, nor can I be sure that I can join the same network they are in.

That's the good old USB-stick use case. Only that I never carry a USB stick because all of my phones support at least USB mass storage. I don't see any other way than USB mass storage for this typical use case.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

pkcon search doesn't seem to find any NFS or SAMBA related packages (standard+mer-tools) so it might be that Jolla doesn't support those without somebody else compiling and packaging those for Jolla.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Got a Transcend 64GB for 35 euros on Amazon.fr... Let see if it's a good one...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Slow (SFTP) and very slow (BT). :rolleyes:

That being said, I connect my N9 in mass-storage mode only if I have to transfer >10GB of data.

Apart from speed, mass-storage is still very useful when you need to use your phone as a USB flash memory, especially with devices that have no idea of what MTP (which is also far slower than direct USB transfer) is like many 'smart'-TVs and such.

I don't understand the mounting argument - I mean I understand it, I worked on a custom FS so I have pretty good understanding on what's going on beneath - I'm just saying it's not an argument. Most modern file systems (and storage devices) support journaling with transactions, advanced queuing and smart cache so the argument 'you need to unmount a partition to make it available to other systems' is pretty moot. There is pretty much no reason to limit file access to one host only these days - FFS, databases have been going at it for decades now - so why not have it both ways?

Well, apart from legacy reasons and "don't fix it if it ain't broken" mentality (and it is broken in this particular instance). Sure thing, allowing such thing won't make the above mass-storage problem (legacy) solved, but there is no real reason why ext4 cannot be extended (it just needs a bit smarter journaling) to allow mounting by multiple hosts. Then you can stick an ext4<->FAT translation layer on top of it for legacy purposes and be done with it.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I have been happy. There has been some challenges, bugs and missing features but I like the natural touchscreen UI, visuals, speed, terminal access. No show stoppers yet. It has been a good adventure.

The most annoying thing for me has been that the SMTP sending doesn't work for my service provider. I have temporarily worked around this by using Gmail account to send all my emails out. The next after that is that I cannot select the regional settings like in N900/N9. I have selected English as a language so I'm getting the UK units which I don't want. After that I think the next one would be missing landscape option in the browser.

Other bugs and missing features have been more minor problems for me.