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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

meatbiscuit 2017-10-09 18:05
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Does any one know which payment forms are going to be accepted for the Sailfish X release?

mrsellout 2017-10-09 18:05
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
If resale is an issue, why not just create a new account just for the license you wish to buy (IF it becomes available for the X Compact), then should you wish to move it on, you give the buyer the account with its software license.

m4r0v3r 2017-10-09 18:43
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536141)
Actually, jenix was right. I am OK with limited time support. What I do not like is that I do not own the license and cannot pass it on as I please..

I see no difference between software and any other product. Bread, a brick, a car or, perhaps the best analogy, a book. Once I buy a book, I can do whatever I damn please with it. I can keep it on the shelf and never open it. I can read it every day. I can sell it or give it away if I no longer like it. And finally, I can lend it to a friend. If I do, then I can no longer read it until I get it back.

Software used to be like that too. That is, until Microsoft came along and changed all that. Now you no longer buy software, you buy "the right" to use it.



No, they don't. J K Rowling does not need to keep track of who bought her book. It is not something Jolla needs to do, it is something they want to do.

There are a million ways of how to provide software anonymously, yet provide updates and guarantee that it is at least difficult, if not impossible to copy. Software companies have sorted that out decades ago. Each copy could come with a unique identifier and an activation code. They can still track each installation to their heart content but the crucial point is, it does not have to be linked to you, the user.



I do not need AD and I would never allow my Jolla spoiled with Android. But, sadly, I need Exchange for work. I would be perfectly happy to pay for the license.
okay how else do they stop you distributing it like a pirate?

Dave999 2017-10-09 18:56
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
They used our money to build sailfish and a loan for years so we are free to share it as far as Im concerned. I would personally not do it but I wouldn't judge any tablet backer using it.

m4r0v3r 2017-10-09 20:06
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1536147)
They used our money to build sailfish and a loan for years so we are free to share it as far as Im concerned. I would personally not do it but I wouldn't judge any tablet backer using it.
legally thats still pirating :P

Dave999 2017-10-09 20:18
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4r0v3r (Post 1536154)
legally thats still pirating :P
What law and in what jurisdiction?

m4r0v3r 2017-10-09 20:43
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1536156)
What law and in what jurisdiction?
Your effectively claiming that Jolla "stole" tablets money, while it was made abundantly clear that it was a donation and not payment.

And in the UK it would go under the computer misuse act.

Dave999 2017-10-09 21:13
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4r0v3r (Post 1536157)
Your effectively claiming that Jolla "stole" tablets money, while it was made abundantly clear that it was a donation and not payment.

And in the UK it would go under the computer misuse act.
They didn't stole the money. That's for sure.

But they indeed mislead the backers, misused the funds, lied to the backers. Most of it probably not intentionally, but still.

The good part is. They know it and they are working hard to pay it back.

m4r0v3r 2017-10-09 22:06
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1536160)
They didn't stole the money. That's for sure.

But they indeed mislead the backers, misused the funds, lied to the backers. Most of it probably not intentionally, but still.

The good part is. They know it and they are working hard to pay it back.
good to see you acknowledge that

pichlo 2017-10-09 22:27
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4r0v3r (Post 1536145)
okay how else do they stop you distributing it like a pirate?
Eh? What do you mean? You just quoted my post where I suggested one way. There could be others:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536141)
There are a million ways of how to provide software anonymously, yet provide updates and guarantee that it is at least difficult, if not impossible to copy. Software companies have sorted that out decades ago. Each copy could come with a unique identifier and an activation code. They can still track each installation to their heart content but the crucial point is, it does not have to be linked to you, the user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1536143)
If resale is an issue, why not just create a new account just for the license you wish to buy (IF it becomes available for the X Compact), then should you wish to move it on, you give the buyer the account with its software license.
Indeed, it has occurred to me too and indeed that might have to be the way to go.

But I do not like the principle. Linux is supposed to be about FREEDOM, right? As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between being tracked by one company and another. If I am to be tracked by Jolla, I may as well go the full way and be tracked by Google and get something in return (millions of apps, a full range of services...). What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

ste-phan 2017-10-10 06:56
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536167)
What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

A possibility to not have to buy a USA based OS just like in the old days with Symbian still around.
USA have been dominating our area culturally and economically since WOII marshall plan .. Even the cultural diversity you find in several European countries is being reduced compared to decades ago in trade of Starbuckification where every urban place looks the same with people using the same software consuming the same food.
As long as all of our data belongs to them, they will remain able to predict the future and remain one step ahead.

If you can't get off Facebook and Google, Jolla indeed has little to offer but it is a start and most importantly a statement, never mind the details.

Reading above about the OS license linked to the Jolla account not the device it is installed on I had to swallow a few times considering that I figured giving away a 2nd voucher would be easy enough and a good way to promote Sailfish to friends or family.
Is the voucher already locked to one's Jolla acount?

m4r0v3r 2017-10-10 09:45
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536167)
Eh? What do you mean? You just quoted my post where I suggested one way. There could be others:





Indeed, it has occurred to me too and indeed that might have to be the way to go.

But I do not like the principle. Linux is supposed to be about FREEDOM, right? As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between being tracked by one company and another. If I am to be tracked by Jolla, I may as well go the full way and be tracked by Google and get something in return (millions of apps, a full range of services...). What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?
Fair enough other ways seems plausible.

But what are they tracking exactly? That you own SFOS?

As far as your concerned you seem to ignore the subtle nuances of being tracked 24/7 by going and just having a SFOS license vs your account.

benny1967 2017-10-10 10:20
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536167)
when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?
I share your concerns about SailfishOS as a whole not being redistributable.

However, I never considered anonymity the main selling point. It might be for you, personally, but each of us is different.

Feathers McGraw 2017-10-10 10:42
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536167)
Linux is supposed to be about FREEDOM, right? As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between being tracked by one company and another. If I am to be tracked by Jolla, I may as well go the full way and be tracked by Google and get something in return (millions of apps, a full range of services...). What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?
I hope you are joking - implementing authentication on downloads of some proprietary software that you don't even have to use is not the same as having a company stick a bunch of telemetry on top of everything and scan all of your communications in order to build a profile on you so they can serve you targeted adverts.

Also it's worth remembering that some of the money given to jolla is to support the development of a polished open source hardware adaptation, which can be used anonymously by anyone.

pexi 2017-10-10 11:12
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw (Post 1536199)
I hope you are joking - implementing authentication on downloads of some proprietary software that you don't even have to use is not the same as having a company stick a bunch of telemetry on top of everything and scan all of your communications in order to build a profile on you so they can serve you targeted adverts.

Also it's worth remembering that some of the money given to jolla is to support the development of a polished open source hardware adaptation, which can be used anonymously by anyone.
Yep some android software like twitter even record you gyro data among just about everything else.

pichlo 2017-10-10 11:26
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4r0v3r (Post 1536196)
As far as your concerned you seem to ignore the subtle nuances of being tracked 24/7 by going and just having a SFOS license vs your account.
OK, let's say that on a scale from 0 to 100, Google's tracking is 100 and Jolla's is 1. You may see only those absolute values. I say that there is a bigger difference between 0 and 1 than there is between 1 and 100. 100 is only 100 times more than 1 but 1 is an infinity times more than 0.

Or look at it this way. There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge. I do not accuse them of choosing their way deliberately with any evil intent. It was probably the first thing that came to their mind and it seemed "good enough". But it seems that they did not even stop to consider alternatives, which to me gives a clear indication of what their attitude to freedom is.

I do not wish to prolong this discussion more than necessary. You either get my drift or you don't. Either way is fine with me.

kinggo 2017-10-10 12:10
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
IMO, you are overreacting. A LOT. Because last year I was in UK and in most stores people were asking me for address when I was buying some tools. :confused::confused::confused: Promotional stuff, this that, whatever...... But way worse than this Jolla thingy.

jenix 2017-10-10 13:05
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536201)
Or look at it this way. There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge. I do not accuse them of choosing their way deliberately with any evil intent. It was probably the first thing that came to their mind and it seemed "good enough". But it seems that they did not even stop to consider alternatives, which to me gives a clear indication of what their attitude to freedom is.
Please do keep in mind that Jolla is a small company with very limited resources. Maybe they choose to bind the licence to the Jolla account because it is much easier to implement than any alternative which requires a whole new system? I guess Jolla don't have the resources to assign such task to 4-5 people, giving them a week to come up with a solution - There are probably more important tasks to solve.

I still don't see what the problem is with checking the eligibility to use SFOS X during the install / first boot by logging into the (most likely used anyway) account and then "unlocking" the system. That's about everything that needs to be done to authorize the device, as long as the Jolla account is still connected. I guess you have to trust Jolla to not use that setup to "spy" on you (or collect data). But then again, if they want to do this they probably hide such "features" in the OS itself, independent of the account.
So if you don't trust Jolla to use the account to only validate your SFOS licence, you probably have a hard time using SFOS itself since you can't be certain of its behaviour.

That being said, I honor your beliefs in open systems and the critic that arises from it. Sadly, theoretical principles are not that easy to implement in the real world.

And now, back to the topic and the official SFOS build that we hopefully can download ind install tomorrow.

r0kk3rz 2017-10-10 13:50
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenix (Post 1536214)
Please do keep in mind that Jolla is a small company with very limited resources.
One of these days that excuse is going to wear thin, if they want to play with the big boys then excuses like that won't serve them.

jameson 2017-10-10 13:53
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asa (Post 1536071)
I'm clearly no expert here so what I'm doing wrong:

08/039/2017 12:39:09 - INFO - Flashtool Version 0.9.23.1 built on 11-01-2017 15:12:00
08/039/2017 12:39:09 - INFO - Executing search strategies to find proxy selector
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - No proxy found for IE. Trying next one
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Strategy firefox failed trying next one : No Firefox installation found
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - No proxy found for java. Trying next one
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Syncing devices from github
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Opening devices repository.
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Scanning devices folder for changes.
08/039/2017 12:39:19 - INFO - Pulling changes from github.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Quietly closing devices repository.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Devices sync finished.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Loading devices database
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Loaded 98 devices
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Starting phone detection
08/039/2017 12:39:25 - INFO - Device disconnected
08/040/2017 12:40:02 - INFO - Device connected with USB debugging on
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Connected device : Sony Xperia X
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Installed version of busybox : N/A
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Android version : 7.1.1 / kernel version : 3.10.84-perf-gcb77bab-03149-gfe8d4a8 / Platform : 64bits / Build number : 34.3.A.0.217
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Root access denied
08/040/2017 12:40:16 - INFO - Selected Bundle for Sony Xperia X(F5121). FW release : 34.0.A.2.301. Customization : NCB
08/040/2017 12:40:16 - INFO - Preparing files for flashing
08/041/2017 12:41:25 - INFO - Please connect your device into flashmode.
08/041/2017 12:41:58 - INFO - Device disconnected
08/042/2017 12:42:19 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Opening device for R/W
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Reading device information
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Unable to read from phone after having opened it.
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - trying to continue anyway
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Phone ready for flashmode operations.
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Opening TA partition 2
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Start Flashing
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - No loader in the bundle. Searching for one
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - INFO - No matching loader found
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - WARN - No loader found or set manually. Skipping loader
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - INFO - Ending flash session
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - ERROR - null
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - ERROR - Error flashing. Aborted
08/042/2017 12:42:35 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode

:confused:
Connect the device, switched off and pressing the volume down button, before starting flashing and it will go on. Then possibly it will behave as it did to me, aborting flashing because a flash script was missing.

Feathers McGraw 2017-10-10 14:03
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536201)
There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge.
I think I understand what you are saying (even though this post gives a very different impression to your previous post IMO).

However, I don't even think it's something new!

Unless I'm mistaken, you already need an account to use the Jolla store, and they have just re-used the same authentication method for this HW adaptation repo.

Also, remember that they aren't stopping you from downloading the open parts of SFOS + hw adaptation at all, and that this authentication is for people who are using the proprietary libraries...

...and once you're using the proprietary stuff you have no guarantee that you're not being tracked or otherwise bent over a barrel anyway.

pasko 2017-10-10 16:56
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Hi.

OK. I have done a factory reset of my Xperia X just to realize that it won't go back to Marshmallow.
Instead, it will reboot into the latest update I had already installed.
So, if you're planning to backup your DRM keys you better not update anything when buy a new device or you'll have to do an extra flashing (I'm guessing here).

Regards.

m4r0v3r 2017-10-10 17:57
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1536201)
OK, let's say that on a scale from 0 to 100, Google's tracking is 100 and Jolla's is 1. You may see only those absolute values. I say that there is a bigger difference between 0 and 1 than there is between 1 and 100. 100 is only 100 times more than 1 but 1 is an infinity times more than 0.

Or look at it this way. There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge. I do not accuse them of choosing their way deliberately with any evil intent. It was probably the first thing that came to their mind and it seemed "good enough". But it seems that they did not even stop to consider alternatives, which to me gives a clear indication of what their attitude to freedom is.

I do not wish to prolong this discussion more than necessary. You either get my drift or you don't. Either way is fine with me.
I see your point of view tbh. Am just willing to make a concession on the account

lantern 2017-10-10 17:59
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Big day ahead!

UninvitedGuest 2017-10-10 18:03
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasko (Post 1536230)
Hi.

OK. I have done a factory reset of my Xperia X just to realize that it won't go back to Marshmallow.
Instead, it will reboot into the latest update I had already installed.
So, if you're planning to backup your DRM keys you better not update anything when buy a new device or you'll have to do an extra flashing (I'm guessing here).

Regards.
My Xperia X came with Nougat out of the box. I'd assume that's the case for most Xperia Xs bought recently.

mariusmssj 2017-10-11 06:23
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Big day today, of course if there are no more delays!

lantern 2017-10-11 07:53
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsRUfh99ncA

pacman 2017-10-11 08:34
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasko (Post 1536230)
Hi.

OK. I have done a factory reset of my Xperia X just to realize that it won't go back to Marshmallow.
Instead, it will reboot into the latest update I had already installed.
So, if you're planning to backup your DRM keys you better not update anything when buy a new device or you'll have to do an extra flashing (I'm guessing here).

Regards.
I may have misunderstood what you mean, but you need to do more than a factory reset to go back to Marshmallow: you need to download and flash a Marshmallow image. See elsewhere in this thread for more details, but in outline the best source of suitable images seems to be to use Xperifirm and download either the shopfront or journalist/press images. You can then back up the DRM keys.

pasko 2017-10-11 08:40
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Hi.

You're right: I thought it would go back to MM with the reset but it didn't.

However, and being lazy as I am, I will wait for the official announcement and probably skip this DRM backup process....:D:D

Regards.

pasko 2017-10-11 08:44
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantern (Post 1536284)
Hi.

:D:D

Regards.

mosen 2017-10-11 09:03
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantern (Post 1536284)
maaan, where is my rickroll?

clovis86 2017-10-11 09:06
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
http://reho.st/http://www.popsticker...s-simpsons.jpg
SailfishX available for all

Dave999 2017-10-11 09:14
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clovis86 (Post 1536297)
Finally!!!!

mariusmssj 2017-10-11 09:15
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clovis86 (Post 1536297)
And I fell for it!

peperjohnny 2017-10-11 09:47
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clovis86 (Post 1536297)
Thanks to C'thulu I'm in Germany and this content is not available ;)

Dave999 2017-10-11 10:14
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Half Jolla working day gone. Still nothing. Anyone wants to place some bets on delay?

mosen 2017-10-11 10:26
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1536302)
Half Jolla working day gone. Still nothing. Anyone wants to place some bets on delay?
James has heard you :D
again in FB Group:
Sepehr Noori at 10:21UTC:
Quote:
As a petrolhead, that Abarth key got my attention pretty damn fast! :D
About Sailfish X, we are working hard and putting the last pieces of the puzzle together. the gates should open in a few hours if everything goes as planned.

DrYak 2017-10-11 10:31
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Someone should post a video (or a gif) of RickRoll playing on their actual Sailfish X-flashed Sony Xperia X device.

asa 2017-10-11 11:44
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
I'm still having problems downgrading Nougat. This is what I get now:

11/034/2017 14:34:14 - INFO - Device connected with USB debugging on
11/034/2017 14:34:14 - INFO - Connected device : Sony Xperia X
11/034/2017 14:34:14 - INFO - Installed version of busybox : N/A
11/034/2017 14:34:14 - INFO - Android version : 7.1.1 / kernel version : 3.10.84-perf-gcb77bab-03149-gfe8d4a8 / Platform : 64bits / Build number : 34.3.A.0.217
11/034/2017 14:34:14 - INFO - Root access denied
11/034/2017 14:34:28 - INFO - Selected Bundle for Sony Xperia X(F5121). FW release : 34.0.A.1.264. Customization : Commercial and Journalists
11/034/2017 14:34:28 - INFO - Preparing files for flashing
11/035/2017 14:35:40 - INFO - Please connect your device into flashmode.
11/035/2017 14:35:45 - INFO - Device disconnected
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Opening device for R/W
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Reading device information
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Unable to read from phone after having opened it.
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - trying to continue anyway
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Phone ready for flashmode operations.
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Opening TA partition 2
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - Start Flashing
11/036/2017 14:36:03 - INFO - No loader in the bundle. Searching for one
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - INFO - No matching loader found
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - WARN - No loader found or set manually. Skipping loader
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - INFO - Ending flash session
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - ERROR - null
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - ERROR - Error flashing. Aborted
11/036/2017 14:36:18 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode
11/036/2017 14:36:31 - INFO - Device disconnected

What's loader?

Flashtool Version 0.9.23.2. Unknown sources allowed on phone. USB debugging on.

Would be nice to backup the DRM-keys.

Dave999 2017-10-11 11:47
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1536304)

WazzUp! If they have to do work now to be able to push it, wait a day or two would be the obvious choice.


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