Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Funny is faceshit needs both Microsoft and mobile company to maker longtime profit. my guess is those three companys will soon alians to fight google.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

big warning people did hope Nokia had hit bottom when it was 4Eur too now is around 2....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

that's ridiculous rumor will not happen. Microsoft and possibly Facebook will feed Nokia with more money.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY
MS has the plan.

Re: Let's Talk Nokia Stock!
 

Yes, but - Android is a nice OS, WP is not. The few poor souls that say they like it, say that on pure spite or some brainless stubbornness or whatever.

I purchase maybe 4-5 phones a year. I give some away after a while and some I keep. The Lumia 800 initially feels good, but then after a while, the limitations simply bites you whenever you touch it. It is not only me or any other geek, the limitations bites ordinary people. Simple things like sending attachments with email or using custom ringtones is not available. WP is two years old already, there is no excuse for these limitations. I can't give away my Lumia, because I'm not that bad a person. I know whoever gets it will end up being angry with me.

However, WP has great potential because the basic user experience is nice. Maybe WP8 will change for the better ? For Nokia's sake I hope so.

If Android didn't exist, WP would do fine against iOS. If iOS didn't exist, WP would do somewhat fine as an alternative to Android. Right now it ends up being nothing worth having.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I can see why people on this board would hate WP. The OS is the total opposite of Meego/Maemo. Everything is sandboxed and basic things where Unix/Linux is the underlying OS is inaccessible on WP.

But I believe Microsoft is copying the way Apple did things by trying to find what the best way to implement these missing features on their Metro UI (in my opinion, I think Metro UI has limitations but if MS is basing a desktop OS on it I'm sure they found ways around the limitations). Apple didn't have apps, custom ringtones, MMS and notifications out the door so I'll give Microsoft time. Android on the other hand packed everything in and fixed and refined things one iteration at a time. It's just different development methods.

Plus, Nokia will probably never come back to Meego/Maemo or at least not with enough enthusiasm (which is sad).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Need I once again remind you that Microsoft has had more than a decade with mobile and tablets? Why are you 'giving them time' on mundane things like cut/paste (which they HAD at one point before taking it away again). And for crying out loud... it's just CUT AND PASTE. I don't even want to start on notifications, multitasking, etc.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

+1

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Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Okay guys so I actually have an on topic question. I am CONSIDERING buying stock, but if i do, do i get a stockholders certificate of some sort? Or do i have to buy some sort of minimum amount of stock to get one?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Didn't someone say they're cheap enough to just get out of a snack machine on Wall Street somewhere?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Windows will grow. I guess it will have 1/4 of the market 2015. The question is how big nokia can be in the Windows area. If samsung and htc keep pushing windows phones.

Let's hope Elop is gone at the time. He shall never see another victory in his business life.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Another? When did he have a business victory before?

Quoting this article:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...ore-sense-now/

"What’s more, Microsoft (or another company) can probably pick up Nokia for a bargain. Nokia has seen the value of its stock drop more than 90 percent in the last five years, from a high of $39.72 in October 2008 to a 15-year low of $2.84 on June 4 of this year. (Going back further is even more frightening: Nokia traded for $56.06 back in April of 2000.) In April, ratings agencies began downgrading the rating on Nokia’s bonds to junk status, making it even more difficult for the company to borrow money to continue operations."

Regarding Windows Phone market share in particular... I think it's only IDC that makes that grand prediction and it's looking ridiculous doing it. Here.. have a read:
http://betanews.com/2012/06/06/if-wi...llmers-toilet/

"The newest forecast is flawed in many of the same ways as its predecessors. IDC assumes that Nokia's reach, particularly in emerging markets, will lift Windows Phone shipments. At last, IDC concedes this by placing a big 'exit in the case of emergency' clause in the new forecast by qualifying: 'Assuming Nokia's foothold in emerging markets is maintained.'"

Summarizing the points he makes...

Five factors negate IDC's Windows Phone predictions:

1. Samsung ended Nokia's 14-year handset lead during first quarter
2. IDC's first-quarter data on shipments and Gartner's on sales show Nokia losing momentum in emerging markets
3. IDC forecasts a 10-percent decline in feature phone shipments
4. Samsung accounts for 40 percent of Android sales
5. The smartphone market is consolidating around two major manufacturers -- Apple and Samsung.

IDC hinges Windows Phone's ascension to Nokia distribution. But as these five points show, Nokia's future success is uncertain.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...YSE:NOK&ntsp=0

It's going all the way, baby.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Well, nothing like firing 10k people to make your stock price go up.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Along with firing 10000 employees, there are also some changes in the management.

There's a Executive VP of Sales and Marketing. Chris Weber, former Head of Markets, North America. You know, the one responsible for Nokias continuing biggest failure, the North American market. A blind man can see where this is heading.

Mary McDowell is out, and Meltemi with her. Customer and Market Operations VP Timo Toikkanen takes over her job. Susan Sheehan is senior vice president of Communications.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's not having that effect though.

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...d8d4e259a3.png

Numbers from Swedish and Finnish stock exchange are not going anywhere... uppy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I was being fully sarcastic.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I chose to ignore that for now. Cutting costs are known to impress investors in given conditions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Destroying the business is known to 'unimpress' the investors

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

NYSE just opened, instant 14% drop... Enjoying that, Lumiaman?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yeah Lumiaman where are you now? You should definitely buy more stock...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Uh, so it really isn't his day... I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Apparently Mr. Weber hasn't sold a phone in his life, or worked in mobile industry. But he used to work for "guess which company?". No points or any other kind of reward for guessing it right.

At least Mcdowell and Savander were finally purged. Half decade or so too late, but better later than never. Elop finally did one thing right.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This is an unfortunate milestone in the history of Nokia. In nearly two years Elop has been their CEO Nokia has seen their stock price plummet more than 70% (going as far as 75% below before rebounding slightly).

Compare this to the three year 74% slump that happened since the arrival of the iPhone, counting from the stock price' high in Nov 2007, around the time the original iPhone took off, to when Elop took charge in Sep 2010. Btw according to Wikipedia he was *compensated* by $6 millon for taking over the job at Nokia in addition to the $1.4 million annual salary...

Just for fun I also checked the stock value loss from Nokia's all time high during the dot com bubble until Elop's arrival, which weighs in at around 80%, which is in the same ball park.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

LOL

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Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I love how well this guy is getting paid to bring Nokia down. 6 million on top of 1.4 million compensation.

The board of directors isn't helping this situation. I might be able to buy the stock and get a certificate before it becomes a penny stock and justify the price.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I wonder how much one could make as a shareholder when parts of nokia get sold in a year or so. The company seems to be getting more and more digestible for potential buyers.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's June of 2012, now. So uh.... how's that partnership working out so far? Have you hit that 'next billion' yet? How much farther into the 'future' do we have to wait for the 'disruptions?' Also... why is that page no longer there so soon already? Is there some kind of deeper meaning to that?

Attachment 26938

This is the Internet where these things CAN sometimes come back to haunt--especially when the CEO is paid so well to publicly, possibly exhibit clinical symptoms of idiocy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

danramos, the page is http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...t-us/about-us/

You have an update on the Nokia strategy at http://press.nokia.com/2012/06/14/no...s-and-outlook/ Same purpose and structure as announced in feb11, focusing in Lumia, Asha and location-based services.

Now, if you don't mind, I'll focus my maemo.org time in things useful to maemo.org.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Current total market cap is about 8,7 billion euros.

-Cash reserves around 4,7 billion (but going down fast)
-Patent portfolio couple billions or so
-50% of Nokia-Siemens Networks worth few billions.

So basicly the parent Nokia's core business is valued to have no value at all. Propably not that crazy evaluation...

Even funnier if you think that just few years ago Nokia paid almost its current value for Navteq, or that Microsoft paid 8 billions for Skype or that Google paid 12 billions for Motorola. My guess is that it depends how seriously Redmond really wants to be in mobile and how many billions they want to waste on trying to beat Google and Apple in mobile tech. Nokia going bankrupt would really be the end of Windows Phone. No one else is taking it seriously. Personally I think its already a lost battle. Google/Android is the Windows of mobile world for the masses and Apple already is the Apple/Mac of mobile for hipsters and high end. No room for anyone else.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

So no more "future disruptions" then.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

By nature that leg of the strategy is more secretive. Nokia keeps filing patents every month and the product portfolio include innovations, but there is little else to comment here.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I just clicked/followed the link YOU provided, Qgil. (Go back to the original post, if you want.)

This really isn't answering my question about how it's been working out so far. It's just a lot of forward-looking aspirations--not the metrics and results of the partnership. So I'm left asking the same questions after reading that page (which, contains information we've already been aware of), "It's June of 2012, now. So uh.... how's that partnership working out so far? Have you hit that 'next billion' yet? How much farther into the 'future' do we have to wait for the 'disruptions?" If you're not qualified to answer them--then at least don't be the one trying to reply without answers--you'd at least be more honest to admit you don't know or that you can't. Would be awesome if someone that COULD, did. That's only fair, right?

Actually, that's kind of interesting. Lately, it doesn't feel to me like there's a lot of useful things going on. (Useful being a pretty opinionated, subjective word, though.) What sort of stuff are you focusing on lately on maemo.org? Are they Maemo related or are you following the Nokia strategy instead somehow?

Soooooooooo... patent trolling? Why innovate? Litigate! Right?

I'd like to know what's meant by 'future' (This year? next year? How about back when we first heard that phrase uttered at Nokia? Feels like it was years ago already.)

How about 'disruptions?' Is this technical, innovative, market-capturing and consumer-loving disruptions... or is this now being interpreted as patent trolling and stalling innovation with litigation the way Microsoft's been known to operate? I interpret Qgil's latest replies to not instill confidence in a positive "disruption." Would be nice to have someone qualified to speak on Nokia's behalf to explain things unambiguously or at least in a way that doesn't instill dread in the increasing numbers of consumers who're clearly disenchanted with Nokia and buying everyone else's products (RIM and Palm being the exceptions--not the kind of crowd you want to be grouped with lately).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think nokia management should rewrite the strategy now. It was just a fake strategy during the transition from a software/hardware vendor to a design house for Microsoft 's software.

The market don't believe in it an rightly so. Nokia have canceled almost everything close to disruptive.

ELOP's ecosystem is not a ecosystem since windows 7.5 devices can't be upgraded to windows 8.

So what nokia has managed with this new strategy is nothing. Microsoft provide an OS. Nokia cutting its own OSes, employees, projects,and most importantly its owners, the shareholders.

Idont think nokia is in a position to present a strategy. It would be much more relevant if microsoft presented the nokia strategy instead of of Nokia 2012 itself.

I'm not saying it's the wrong way for nokia, they don't have that much options in the current state. But even so, the information and strategy must be aligned with reality and updated accordingly.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I agree with everything you said except that they don't have many options. There is a WORLD of options they could choose from, even now. They chose the worst of available options, at the worst time, with the worst people, moving to the worst, cheapest locations while choking Nokia's founding homeland and population, with the worst devices (yeah, I said it.. the hardware is getting cheaper, more tacky looking, and more fragile as time has passed), all for what appear to be the worst reasons and results.

Options, they had plenty. I'll say it again: Nokia should have learned from its competitors and from business history about how to provide better products, better support, better physical presence, better customer service and finally, most importantly, listen to the customers to sell them what they are demanding they want to buy. I've seen Nokia's reputation of contempt for customers only getting worse over time.

These blathering, meaningless phrases like 'future disruptions' are so open and fundamentally meaningless that they could mean anything in any context that they might hope to use it in to take credit. "Future disruptions" could also describe the negative effect Nokia is having on their investors and the Finnish economy. There's no clear strategy behind such business double-speak. In my opinion, Elop has a very long way to go to prove that he's anything more than an overly-paid Microsoft mole-man with very few successes, no compelling vision nor any useful talents.

Prove me wrong, Elop! DO IT! DO IT, YOU WIMP!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I found this. support it?
http://www.change.org/petitions/noki...stephen-elop:D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You always putting lots of questions out there, but you never have any answers. Whats done is done and can't be undone. Even if we dont agree with Nokia's decision to cancel all the good stuff and jumping on the microsoft boat with lots of holes in, we can't ignore the fact that we are in the boat. How do you suggest we do to keep the boat above sea level?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Don't really want to fuel any further wp-bashing discussion, but yesterday my ecuadorian friend told me that after 3 yrs with android he is actually looking for WP phone, but he hates Nokia. Must be 0.0001% but still something (or confirmation bias, but really do not remember people being excited by android in chit-chat anytime recently). I showed him Fremantle and as he has some linux exp he was quite impressed (compiling a game while we chatted was the killer), probably one WP device less out there, not sure, but however you guys feel WP IS attractive to some. It's like discussing high-heels sometimes here, some (poor unruly bastards) like the long outstanding wood-pecker(or cowboyish) like ending, normal people do not - lets fight to the death about it. WP8 is coming soon, lets not fight over aesthetic preferences. Google is not going to save us

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Waiting for any company to save us is sheer folly. Case in point, Nokia.