Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

danramos, it is actually not fair to expect that your business related questions to Nokia will be answered to you here in maemo.org. If you have any chance it would be in Nokia Conversations, or better as accredited media asking directly to Nokia spokepersons. But you know that, so why still pushing the few Nokia employees (for how long, nobody knows) here?

My maemo.org work consists of bringing the 2012 Device Program to completion and help finding the best transition for the maemo.org infrastructure funding and ownership. My personal opinions about the Nokia stock are manifested in my 401k investments.

And that's all I have to say in this thread. If you want to discuss productively about maemo.org I'll see you at the on-topic threads.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

As a in a way spokeperson for Nokia for this board please elaborate. Your 401k is not public information, most likely private/restricted if we speak about classification. If you wanted to insinuate it is all in Nokia stock there will be many to argue/belittle your decision, I value your optimistic pov, with insider insight makes me even more hopeful. Seems to be the only way for maemo to keep being relevant in the future

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

HA you will never get anything out of him as he was only a front man for Nokia to get everyones hopes up on this community then nothing ever comes of it.

I don't like him i never have because i dislike crap talk and i make no secret of it, he has never done anything real but spout hopes that never happened.

Dan is dreaming i think hahaha but he means well lol.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nope, their pipeline is full of wp8 I guess, no other options in the near term, and the near term is critical.

Well nokia is worth more than its market value, so it makes sense to keep them for now.

I don't think its possible for nokia to introduce anything disruptive independent of MS in the near term anyway, they don't have the resources to back it.

Although I still have faith that nokia could not have been that stupid if they didn't expect a major shakeup in the industry in a few years. Assuming they were sure to survive until then :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Perhaps because I felt it is relevant in this thread. You volunteered the earlier comments to which I had to ask the questions about how they're turning out. It's not fair to pose the points and then quell the questions about them. You know very well that you're effectively directing me to send criticism and questions to /dev/null and it's a subtle way to tell someone to censor themselves. But you know that, right, qgil? So why try so hard to keep the community from asking questions you don't like but that effect them and Maemo's own future? With Nokia grinding on SO HARD with this Microsoft partnership, the dwindling numbers (employees, funding, etc.) will surely effect Maemo.org and other related topics. Questions like "How is that partnership is working out?" seems to be a fair question in this thread. Don't you think so?

Sounds like: closing off ties to the Maemo.org community so they can get stuck with an operating system they can't upgrade against the very open-source that Nokia decided to use. Just the same, good luck. As for the way you worded your sentence about your "personal opinions"--are you implying that your 401K investments are entirely based on Nokia stock? I'm pretty sure you don't want to answer any questions about your personal 401K, so I'm not sure (once again) why you bring it up here as a point of conversation.

I see what you did there with "productively." :) Subjective qualifiers so you can avoid the difficult questions about bad decisions Nokia has made? Nice wordplay, corporate-speak.

Man, I can still remember all the times users here would say, 'I wish it could support xxxxx! Aw well, it's open... Nokia will eventually include support, since Linux supports it!' ...and waiting... and waiting... aaaand then the next device comes out and we're kicked to the curb. :)

As I understood it, he's not a front-man (I'm assuming you meant a PR guy). I thought he was just another techie at Nokia working with Maemo as an open-source evangelist. I think it might be unfair to label him as nefarious--I just think the company puts the Maemo employees into very unfortunate positions--especially if they liked Maemo. Nokia executives and management never seemed to treat that platform and its employees with much respect.

The community that loves Maemo really should be haranguing Nokia itself about it. I, on the other hand, have no dedication to brand and I seek out whatever platform will give me what I want. At one point, it WAS Maemo and I still think it could have the most potential--far more than Windows Phone will turn out to have. Right now, it appears to be Android that satisfies my needs the best but I'll jump that ship to someone else's platform just as easily as I jumped off of Maemo if I see someone else doing a better job. I get the impression that Nokia doesn't care what customers want and instead decided to declare what customers should love just because they are Nokia. Nah.. I'll just sit over here, shaking my head in disappointment over the wasted potential, and just watch to see if anything interesting happens.

But, by qgil's own admission, they do. He kept repeating that nebulous 'future disruptions' phrase and saying something about an abundance of patents. Surely, an abundance of patents is a clear indicator of a company innovating their products. Right?

Surely, Nokia couldn't have been that stupid!

FAITH! You gots it!
http://maxcdn.liewcf.com/blog/wp-con...idetalking.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ok, still one last post here only because you seem to have missed an important detail in this week's announcements:

There goes as well the budget for funding maemo.org and paying the salaries of whoever has still a relationship with this community (Qt Project to follow, although there Nokia still keeps the support for the short term while looking for a way forward like a spin-off or the sale of the Qt asset).

It's a decision made. The current situation and future trends of the Nokia stock, Lumia & Asha sales etc will have no influence on this decision.

Therefore you can keep discussing about any present and future Nokia business topics if you want. They won't be directly related anymore with the present and future of maemo.org, though.

If you care about maemo.org more than about Nokia then a good use of your time and intelligence could be put in collaborating on a post-Nokia plan for this community. In the meantime myself, together with other Nokia employees, will continue working these days seeing how long can Nokia still fund the server infrastructure sustaining maemo.org.

See you in the Community forum? Otherwise keep having fun here but don't bother asking me anything in this thread. Thank you for your understanding (I expect it and I mean it).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

So I assume Qt plays no role in "future disruptions"? Guess its gonna be a pimped web-browser then. I don't understand those people, throwing away all their assets for something that doesn't sell.

God will not be merciful.

P.S. I think for Qt it will be best to gain independence from nokia. That's probably the reason qgil isn't soo unhappy about recent developments ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

[QUOTE=qgil;1223058]
There goes as well the budget for funding maemo.org and paying the salaries of whoever has still a relationship with this community (Qt Project to follow, although there Nokia still keeps the support for the short term while looking for a way forward like a spin-off or the sale of the Qt asset).

If you care about maemo.org more than about Nokia then a good use of your time and intelligence could be put in collaborating on a post-Nokia plan for this community. In the meantime myself, together with other Nokia employees, will continue working these days seeing how long can Nokia still fund the server infrastructure sustaining maemo.org.


Someone in the forums mentioned that nokia would give the maemo db and website code to the communty for our hosting?

I guest its now or never :(
Id chip in

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I apologize for appearing to have missed the important detail but, in my defense, it really didn't help to read that announcement. As I keep pointing out, it reads to me as more business double-speak where there's a coherent string of grammatically-correct English words but they ultimately can mean anything and nothing, and can be interpreted any number of ways. I think that Nokia's PR department seems to excel at streaming out negative news dressed in ambiguous terms that pretend to dress them up as optimism. After a few years of reading them, I think we started to get good at reading between the lines but it's been hard to believe that we're reading it right. Thank you for making it much clearer.

Yyyyyyyyyyup.

I hope you realize how silly that seems. We can't even compile new kernels or obtain drivers for these Maemo-based devices and now Nokia has divorced itself from the devices, the customers, the platform and the community. It's pretty much a dead-end. It was probably always guaranteed to be a dead-end the moment it was decided somewhere inside Nokia that Maemo should be open-core software crippled with closed-source dependencies and the software surrounding it to keep it broken to everyone despite claims of openness.

It's just my opinion but I've got more interesting, progressive and future-focused things to think about and take an interest in than Maemo, if this is the case. I really had hoped otherwise but it seems every little hope and possibility is being shot-down every time I think there's a chance for something done right.

Thanks anyway. I will, however, be sure to pass along a far sterner message to anyone considering anything Nokia about the company's history of its poor loyalty to customers and communities (Maemo, MeeGo, Symbian, etc.). I'm sure I'm not the first or only one--the blogosphere, sales metrics and valuation seems to indicate to me that many are already acutely aware. I'm sure the executives will somehow manage to weather out this storm but it certainly would behoove management and shareholders to do their jobs and pay attention to established working business methods along with the metrics and tools. It would seem to me that it would indicate that there is a significant problem developing far worse after Elop took over than during the already poor pre-Microsoft-marriage era.

I'm not sure there's much to ask without being rhetorical, as I already pointed out. You effectively confirmed much of what I already expected or couldn't believe. Just the same, I'll keep asking questions and making comments, freely and openly to anyone I choose as long as I'm allowed to. Thanks anyway.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

QGil,

do you have any hard numbers as to what this budget actually amounts to?

Dan,

have to admit your 1st § hits the nail on the head :eek::mad:

on 2nd thought (& thorough read :D) your whole posts makes an awful lot of sense, unambiguously, for once ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

history doesn't repeat itself, it stutters...
it amazing how slow NOKIA is to admit that Flop got fired or got the company he was CEO of acquired :mad:
he isn't a flop, he is failure :(

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It is really interesting to see how words can be read in so many different ways.

As I read qgil words and as I look the latest developments, my understanding is quite opposite to some of the latest postings.

As I got it, qgil currently has no nokia stock, his job is gone or about to be, but he nevertheless is worried and working on finding options for maemo.org. Big thanks 4 that.

On the other hand, nokia never promissed open phones, but nonetheless these are about as open as mainstream devices go (until today).

And this openness was enough for several great things to be done.

I reckon that what is not in the open by now is covered by patents or other trade secrets and will not come into the open. So there will be things we would like to do but will not easily manage to.

I am one of those who love these devices, and therefore I do not like the way nokia has turned its strategy. But I prefer to think that this is not a one man's strategy, that the board and stockholders knew enough to decide what they did.

And as I see it, now they sound very worried about the way things are going.

One thing is certain though: nokia as we knew it is no longer here.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I pretty much know what danramos thinks, and I understand that Qqil cannot commit to a public statement that's not explicitly separate from his employer easily... but I'd love to hear an unofficial account of how these decisions emotionally affect him.

But as it stands, I'm impressed with his commitment to this forum, to Qt and to the developers. Even I have no bad words for him; nothing but the best wishes on all of his endeavors going forward.

Oh... and I know I'll never get that emotional account. That's fine...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

i bought more stock. What is happening at Nokia was predictable and necessary. They are doing what is necessary to be competitive in this world.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/18962001.jpg

You just said two conflicting things:

"What is happening at Nokia was predictable and necessary."
Yes. We ALL knew (those of us who've been here for most of the Maemo era) that they were hooking up with a losing nag in this race the moment Elop was hired... and then we all immediately knew that Nokia effectively sold its soul to Microsoft and committing suicide the moment we saw Balmer on stage with Elop and declared all things Nokia to ONLY be all things Microsoft.

"They are doing what is necessary to be competitive in this world."
Are we still talking about Nokia? The company that chose, as its dedicated platform, the most unsuccessful brand in mobile phone history?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That remains to be seen. They needed to clean the house and it's being done, and to streamline their product line. Microsoft is plenty successful and if u used Lumia devices you would know that they are on the right track. Nokia could never out of the box perfect software.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Actually Elop was brought for that purpose. Maemo could not deliver, because Nokia could not optimize their own work and could not compete with the joneses. Whatever it was , it wasn't working.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's BEING seen. :P Microsoft is plenty UNSUCCESSFUL (Windows Mobile/Phone, Zune, Bob.. heheh).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Lumiaman, in all seriousness, do you realise how many basic features the Lumia line is missing? No mass storage mode, no bluetooth transfer - you can't even use an mp3 as a ringtone (without a lot of hassle)
You're saying this is better than Symbian/Meego? No. The reality is that WP7 is a very immature platform. It needs to DEVELOP. So, it's nowhere near perfect. The fact Meego has a lot of these missing features suggests that Meego was the right OS to pursue

But whatever anyone says - you're not going to agree. Your opinion is your opinion... it's neither right nor wrong. But the fact Tomi Ahonen can BACK UP all his statements leads me to believe that what he is saying has a much higher degree of truth and realism than what you believe to be the case

So perhaps it would be a good idea for you to get some FACTS and FIGURES to show us why you think you're right (i can certainly provide the figures thanks to Tomi). Otherwise, your claims are baseless

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Just playing devil's advocate, but none of the above seems to have stopped a certain fruity competitor ;-)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The Nokia torture

True...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's not what you think, it's what the market thinks. Market spoke clear and loud: Symbian phones are not competitive. Harmattan and Maemo are not competitive. Most people don't care about the above mentioned features. And apple is doing pretty well with its "dumbphone ".

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Get out of my thread!

Please leave the community talk for other threads and let's talk nokia stock? What is this thread doing in Off topic. Who is responsible for the movement? unacceptable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07So_lJQyqw

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The market hey? What's WP's market share, post strategy and after strategy?

Symbian STILL has more market share than WP7!!!!

You're right, the market speaks ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You must be easily deluded. Symbian collapse is what is causing NOKIA downsizing

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

And what caused the collapse in Symbian? ALL industry analysts predicted, before the Burning Platform memo that Symbian would still be the BIGGEST OS in the world for at least the next 2 years.

The funny thing is, after killing Symbian over a year ago - it still has more market share than WP7

Like i said Lumiaman, give me some facts and figures... you can't? Then keep on dreaming

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Check today's Washington Post for an article on how Nokia drove its value low enough to make it a possible takeover target.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I doubt takeover would be possible at the moment. How would any compony find enought shares to buy? I don't thing we have enough sellers...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Why pay for the milk when you can possibly get it for free?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Firstly, nothing comes for free. And what happens if the milk expires And you have to go in and fix stuff like the milkmachine or the cow don't act like you want?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I fear that you don't quite get that colloquialism perhaps. It's often stated when men and women live together and the man benefits from the woman as if she's already his wife, he's yet to make her his wife yet.

She cooks, she cleans, she loves him. He benefits yet doesn't have to make that final commitment.

In this case... Nokia builds new applications, they manufacturer new hardware, they even advertise on behalf of WP7 in countries that don't care about WP7 in the least bit. Nokia licenses WP7 from Microsoft for each phone sold and all Microsoft had to do was give them some money and no real commitment beyond that.

Why pay for the milk when they get the cow for free - that's the whole statement more or less.

Nothing's for truly free, I agree. But just like the man, Microsoft is enjoying Nokia for next to nothing right now... no real commitment that doesn't benefit Microsoft.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh thx. I thought we were talking milk.

But you can't be sure what the deal is. We might not know the whole story. We don't have the signed contract and audio files from the negotiations behind closed doors?

Microsoft Corporation could have a deal to buy nokia for a fixed price with the board and all major share holders(not likely). There could also be that Nokia needs more money to survive and ms must buy nokia for almost the same amount.

EDIT: BALLMER just showed a Microsoft tablet called surface. Why do they need nokia?
http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-l...-announcement/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Microsoft just announced their own Windows 8 tablet. Nokia gets a slap in the face, and would have to compete with their "partner" Microsoft if they were going to make a Nokia tablet.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/m...ement-livelog/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Microsoft going behind the back of their partners? Imposibiru!

Watch Nokia stock lose what little has it gained after the massive drop last week...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm not sure if this was expected by the market or not. But it was a certenly not the best guarded secret since microsoft was sending out invitations. It could also be seen as a strength for the Windows ecosystem and push nokia. Let's see.

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They don't need Nokia. Problem is, Nokia need Microsoft now.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I beg to differ. MS need Nokia, otherwise Windows Phone would be even more weak/dead than it already is. No other OEM cares for WP as much as Nokia blindly does. I would even go as far as to say Nokia doesn't benefit as much from the partnership as MS does.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Microsoft just announced their own tablet today. Intel was there in the announcement as well. But where was Nokia?

Placing a GSM radio into one is just one part order away. They can more than likely make their own handset if they decided to, if they already haven't.

Needless to say, past Microsoft strategic mobile partners would probably have something to say about how well they were treated by Microsoft.

Nokia has gone full into WP7 and perhaps WP8. Let's see if this benefits them in the far future, so far it hasn't at all recently.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

GSM is not just an order away. Do you honestly believe that? Though they can release their own phone with help, in fact they have already, it was called the KIN (That thing which they do a great job of hiding, pretending it didn't exist as part of their hardware line). They did so with the help of Sharp. I'm sure I don't need to tell you it failed. If they actually thought they were on to a winner with their own phone hardware they would have continued dumping money on it.

Without Nokia they would need to license a whole host of standard essential patents related to wireless communication standards, as well as pay for Navteq maps (which they currently do anyway).
Why do that when you can get Nokia to make your phones almost exclusively and pay you for a WP license too? Recouping some of that loss yet dictating what they can make. Seeing as their strategy now also includes low-end WP in a bid for market share (the race to the bottom which Nokia initially said it wanted to avoid) it would make sense. I guess they are fed up of paying studios to bring their apps to WP low install base.

Nokia were stupid/brave enough to take all the risk and gain very little from it. I don't know that many more phone manufacturers that would be willing to back WP like Nokia. So I think MS need Nokia now, though I'm sure that if it does fail like it seems to be then MS will try alternative agreements with other companies promising billions in transactions. That by no means is guaranteed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes. I do believe that. Do you believe that they would not have already thought about GSM in their tablets to compete with the other GSM enabled tablets?

Didn't stop Samsung. Didn't stop Motorola. I'm quite sure that Microsoft might have thought about it too...

And Sharp was brought to the table by that small company they purchased, Danger. They've had enough deals/dealings with hardware that they honestly could (by now) create their own handset.

I mean... they just created/produced their own tablet.

Internal politics were deadly around KIN and Courier. Sucks, honestly. Both could have been contenders for this North American market.

Licensing is cheaper than buying them... unless the company that holds the patents is in trouble or a strategic partner.

Because they've outlived their usefulness. Ballmer is a right bastard and dealing with him, the deal with the Devil is probably a kinder deal.

Exactly. And Microsoft has shown they can do hardware now...

If they made their own tablet, they might do their own phone. That's my point.

Makes for good speculation though, doesn't it?