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-   -   JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315)

szymeczek34 2012-09-29 15:07
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Do you even hear yourself? We're hoping for the best and keeping our fingers crossed for a good Jolla phone but we're not saying that it'll be the best. Moreover, we're not even saying that it'll be great. We know that it's probably going to be middle end and it won't be able to compete with other high end phone in terms of camera, specs, we're just hoping for their OS to be open. How is this jSheep? Explain. Using good arguments.

mikecomputing 2012-09-29 16:01
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by szymeczek34 (Post 1273929)
Do you even hear yourself? We're hoping for the best and keeping our fingers crossed for a good Jolla phone but we're not saying that it'll be the best. Moreover, we're not even saying that it'll be great. We know that it's probably going to be middle end and it won't be able to compete with other high end phone in terms of camera, specs, we're just hoping for their OS to be open. How is this jSheep? Explain. Using good arguments.
stop feed the Troll!!!

gerbick 2012-09-29 16:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Because some people are not discussing things in the manner or with the same position as yourself shouldn't mean that they should be excluded form the conversations.

Naysayers exist. Always. But seeing them either justified with their continued attitude or silenced is up to the deliverables from the company, not your fandom.

javispedro 2012-09-29 16:33
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinK (Post 1272720)
But when you want to do some more advanced stuff - games, editors, terminal emulators, painting programs, video players - you either can't (all graphic intensive games on WebOS actually use SDL, not the Enyo or Mojo frameworks) or have to use horrible hacks.
I think that is mostly because of portability reasons, and because you cannot really use WebGL at all on released webOS versions.

But any sane "HTML5" API these days will have both WebGL and one of the FileReader/Streamer/IO APIs. And the FileReader API is a streaming, quite reasonable one; we have been able to read (in JS!) multi-gigabyte files -- containing serialized huge trees -- without the browser running out of memory :).

These days I am not able to find any important difference between a HTML application API and Qt Quick. Even in webOS you could very well just have used a PDL plugin/hybrid application which is more or less the same as having a Qt Quick app use "native" QObjects implemented in C++, without creating a node.js service that reads/serializes the files as you described
(though, people DO prefer not having to code anything in C++).

mikecomputing 2012-09-30 00:25
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1273956)
Because some people are not discussing things in the manner or with the same position as yourself shouldn't mean that they should be excluded form the conversations.

Naysayers exist. Always. But seeing them either justified with their continued attitude or silenced is up to the deliverables from the company, not your fandom.
there is no point "discuss" with Trolls like lumiaman. He is just repeating stuff over and over again and only make people reply even more stupid answers. They shoulf have learned long ago that those offtopic discussions leads nowhere!

Copernicus 2012-09-30 00:36
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 1273961)
(though, people DO prefer not having to code anything in C++).
Hey, BTW, do you see any future portable devices for those of us who do prefer to code everything in C++? The pickings have been getting mighty slim lately...

shmerl 2012-09-30 00:43
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 1273961)
(though, people DO prefer not having to code anything in C++).
On the contrary, I prefer to code the logic in C++. User interface is a different story. Using Qt - it's a good method to use QML for the interface, and C++ for functional logic.

Since C++ has its shortcomings, there are some new languages emerging which try to address them. Out of those I like Rust the most:

http://rust-lang.org

Downside of JavaScript is dynamic types system. Static types are way cleaner and safer to use.

shmerl 2012-09-30 00:55
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1274111)
Hey, BTW, do you see any future portable devices for those of us who do prefer to code everything in C++? The pickings have been getting mighty slim lately...
Sure, the future is not all in JavaScript. It's just hyped, like Java used to be. Compiled languages aren't going anywhere - don't worry. See above about Rust (it's mostly developed by Mozilla now). Google created their Go as well, though I think Rust is more interesting since it doesn't enforce automatic garbage collecting and allows low level coding, not unlike pure C. C++11 is also interesting in its own right.

Also, portable devices now are more constrained in comparison to regular computers. So performance is really important. So compiled languages give an advantage.

Copernicus 2012-09-30 01:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1274114)
Compiled languages aren't going anywhere - don't worry.
Quote:
Also, portable devices now are more constrained in comparison to regular computers. So performance is really important. So compiled languages give an advantage.
Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, most device manufacturers don't seem to agree; at the very least, you get locked into a language of their choosing (Objective C for Apple, Java for Android, and I'm not sure what for WP). Apple originally wanted all iPhone apps to be HTML based. Last I heard, Tizen/Mer were focussing on an HTML5-based environment, much as javispedro is describing.

I really liked the fact that I could write C++ apps for my N900 without having to root it and dump/replace layers and layers of constrictive UI stuff. I really want a portable computer, not a Steve Jobs style portable media player... :)

shmerl 2012-09-30 01:20
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Objective C is a compiled language though. But I don't get its appeal vs regular C++. If one wants something different, Rust is way more interesting than Objective C.

Android is a constrained system. Google thought that Java hype will attract many developers to Android. But in result even they allowed using C/C++ there, with native compilation. Windows Phone in contrast doesn't allow it (or to be precise they allow it to the "privileged" and don't allow to everyone else). It's really dumb in my opinion. They mostly promote C# obviously, since it's MS creation.

Mer based systems which are normal Linux, and not some constrained Android should be most interesting for developers IMO.

Tizen seems to go a similar path.

Dave999 2012-09-30 06:15
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Tizen and jolla must be your choice. Or same underground skunk work pad.

Compiled language will stay for many years. When computer speed and network speed isn't limitations the html5 can be great for platform independent but until th
en its more of a hype.

But if the developer is very skilled, great thinks can be done in html5, just not trying to mimic native application too much. Many examples reaching uncanny valley.

I think too many don't like Html5 becouse of what they seen and not what great developers can do with it.

Hurrian 2012-09-30 07:39
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1274195)
Compiled language will stay for many years. When computer speed and network speed isn't limitations the html5 can be great for platform independent but until th
en its more of a hype.

But if the developer is very skilled, great thinks can be done in html5, just not trying to mimic native application too much. Many examples reaching uncanny valley.
This. It's actually possible to make a fully functional, well designed app in HTML5+CSS3+crazy JS libraries.

However, your limiting factor is performance. Interpreting HTML, CSS and any number of JS libraries takes a lot of time on a mobile device. There simply isn't enough horsepower to magically make them smooth and responsive as butter.

See: Facebook's HTML5-based app.

shmerl 2012-09-30 15:56
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Not every type of application is reasonable to make in JavaScript. Try to make a browser in it with JIT compiler for JavaScript itself ;)

lma 2012-09-30 16:59
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1274207)
There simply isn't enough horsepower to magically make them smooth and responsive as butter.
I have to ask: how responsive exactly is butter? ;-)

Fuzzillogic 2012-09-30 17:08
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1274195)
Tizen and jolla must be your choice. Or same underground skunk work pad.

Compiled language will stay for many years. When computer speed and network speed isn't limitations the html5 can be great for platform independent but until then its more of a hype.
No, even with plenty of processing power and network speed HTML5 would still suck for writing applications. Its only advantage is that it looks like it's more platform independent than the rest, but even at the best of times that's not an easy, straightforward and consistent path.

fw190 2012-09-30 18:13
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1274409)
I have to ask: how responsive exactly is butter? ;-)
Depends of the butter temprrature ;)

Dave999 2012-09-30 19:26
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
What most seems to forget is that you still almost always have other ways to create applications. Don't really understand why everyone must attack html5 all the time, if you don't like it just don't code html and js and stuff and leave that to the devs that like it.

lma 2012-09-30 19:42
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fw190 (Post 1274451)
Depends of the butter temprrature ;)
Ah, of course, that's why overclocking makes it more responsive!

Fuzzillogic 2012-09-30 20:04
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1274468)
What most seems to forget is that you still almost always have other ways to create applications. Don't really understand why everyone must attack html5 all the time, if you don't like it just don't code html and js and stuff and leave that to the devs that like it.
The "problem" is that Jolla seems quite positive about HTML5, and I'm afraid they will actively promote it over better alternatives which leads to a real problem: mediocre apps.

I'm also afraid many developers simply lack the knowledge to make an well-considered decision to use HTML5 - they simply use what they know and even think it's always the best choice, because of the hype.

Indeed, better a HTML5 app than no app, But but with 10+ years of webtech-experience I can't help to be disappointed by it, seeing the slow pace, wrong turns and general amateur appearance of the platform. I think it's a good idea to show that not everybody thinks HTML5 is all heavenly bliss and The One Tool For Everything. So I know, I'm overreacting again and again, but I simply can't find a lot of good in HTML5 for apps, so everytime someone mentions it as if it was, it makes me sad.

Dave999 2012-09-30 20:06
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Open mobile with Jussi Hurmola. Grab a cup of coffee and watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7vozx-pqN8

javispedro 2012-10-01 01:17
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1274111)
Hey, BTW, do you see any future portable devices for those of us who do prefer to code everything in C++? The pickings have been getting mighty slim lately...
Both Android and iOS allow C++. Neither as the "first-class" language though.

MartinK 2012-10-01 02:15
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1274468)
Don't really understand why everyone must attack html5 all the time, if you don't like it just don't code html and js and stuff and leave that to the devs that like it.
HTML5 is not a problem. HTML5 only platforms (such as Firefox OS or Tizen) without proper support for native development are. :)

Dave999 2012-10-01 05:37
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinK (Post 1274575)
HTML5 is not a problem. HTML5 only platforms (such as Firefox OS or Tizen) without proper support for native development are. :)
Oh, ok. I thought we were talking jolla in this thread. My bad...

switch-hitter 2012-10-01 07:42
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Does anybody know if Jolla, Tizen and Firefox OS are all implementing the same api for HTML5 apps?

mariusmssj 2012-10-01 07:46
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is interesting :

rm42 2012-10-01 15:08
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1274656)
This is interesting :
One thing is to "consider", another is to decide to implement. Seems to me that, at this point, few things are out of the table for consideration. As implementation progresses, some things will have to be discarded.

mariusmssj 2012-10-01 15:20
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 1274875)
One thing is to "consider", another is to decide to implement. Seems to me that, at this point, few things are out of the table for consideration. As implementation progresses, some things will have to be discarded.
In previous previous page Dave999 shared a video, in which the CEO of Jolla also talks about importance of 4G/LTE

mikecomputing 2012-10-02 08:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Polltime, hwkbd or vkb?

http://wp.me/p2A9Zt-3T

Dave999 2012-10-02 10:33
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
sv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1275194)
Polltime, hwkbd or vkb?

http://wp.me/p2A9Zt-3T
Nice with a poll but it should be obvious to everyone and especially jolla that keyboard is the way to go...

delmar 2012-10-02 10:33
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1275194)
Polltime, hwkbd or vkb?

http://wp.me/p2A9Zt-3T
both (slide out qwerty) :D

thedead1440 2012-10-02 10:35
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
The poll is slightly disappointing...While its from a "fan site" I find it strange that Jolla re-tweeted it and now if the most-voted result isn't what appears in the final product, many people will get disappointed...

Flapzapninja 2012-10-02 12:59
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
http://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/fi...medium=twitter

Souds interesting.

NokiaFanatic 2012-10-02 13:17
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
It doesn't sound like Jolla are even going to try and compete in the hardware space.

Dave999 2012-10-02 13:20
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1275237)
The poll is slightly disappointing...While its from a "fan site" I find it strange that Jolla re-tweeted it and now if the most-voted result isn't what appears in the final product, many people will get disappointed...
Won't happen... Why do you thing they re twitter... ed?

Free slide out keyboard to everyone! :D

By the way.. The latest about jolla!
http://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/fi...+kong/a2148399

Jolla's OS named sailfish. Is this a work name or will they copy Google style and give versions different names related to the sea. Let's see :)

NokiaFanatic 2012-10-02 13:21
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...748969228.html
Quote:
"There has been a lot of interest in what we're doing and it has been a busy few months," Mr. Hurmola said.

The investor consortium is made up of an array of mobile industry players—including at least one telecom operator, chip set maker, as well as device and component manufacturers. Mr. Hurmola, a former Nokia veteran, also said his company is putting €10 million of its own money into the plan, as well.

........

"We're also looking into mobile advertising models as a potential source of revenue," he said. Mr. Hurmola plans to show off the first working MeeGo phone by Jolla in November, and Jolla will distribute its version of MeeGo free of charge to device makers.
Only 1 month, or 2 to go :cool:

Stskeeps 2012-10-02 14:05
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
http://jollatides.com/2012/10/02/jol...ober-2nd-2012/

Dave999 2012-10-02 14:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1275307)
Way to slow. I have already revealed the announcment and sailfish. I thought you had connections and inside information ;)

diogotrc 2012-10-02 14:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Bye bye Nokia!
Hey Elop! ,,|,

jalyst 2012-10-02 15:45
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Story from Engadget, source article already posted I think, not sure of accuracy of all the content/claims within
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/02/j...to-show-off-n/

thedead1440 2012-10-02 15:47
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1275348)
Story from Engadget, source article already posted I think, not sure of accuracy of all the content/claims within
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/02/j...to-show-off-n/
Posted 2-3 pages here from the horse's mouth instead of engadget :p


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