Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Yes, I am.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Well, yeah. :) I guess I'm just kinda grumpy lately. (Been waiting too long myself for a Sailfish device to appear here in the States. I guess I should really stop thinking about Sailfish and just go do something else for a while...)

^^This. :) Yeah, I think the idea of Indiegogo-based advertising has backfired on them here. The campaign raised a whole lot of publicity for them, but it has also made plain that they were nowhere near as ready to ship the tablet as they thought they were, and yeah, that they are not nearly as adept at managing hardware production as they are at software. :)

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Sucks that they didn't send me that e-mail, but thanks! :)

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

I kinda have the feeling that the process for producing the tablet is quite different from the one used for producing the phone. They ship directly from their Honk Kong Based subsidiary, they seem to get a lot more low level, debugging hardware and supply problems, going quote publicly over more iterations, etc.

Maybe before they basically ordered the whole thing from an OEM and were not satisfied with it so they decided to handle bigger part of the manufacturing themselves ? Or the other way around ? :)

One has to take account that the Jolla Tablet is a crowdfunding campaign where you re expected to provide much bigger insights into product development and production than with a regular commercial product (Jolla Phone). That can definitely also influence the image one gets of the project. :)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Sorry I do not believe they will ship as scheduled. I am a realist.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Delays are always possible. It's not at all rare occurrence even from bigger players. They just don't do it so openly so they don't get that much c*** from it.

Another reason not to cherish openness...

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

That might work for a normal commercial product - in such case you should generally only announce any dates only when you are really sure you can meet them. Or post factum: "Hey, we released X!" :)

On the other hand - we are talking crowdfunding. For crowdfunding such behavior wont do. Anything other than frequent updates and maximal openness won't do - especially when you hit any unexpected delays. Backers will generally be quite okay even with severe delays as long as you regularly keep them up to date. And you risk making them very angry if you keep them in the dark even for small delays.

As the Jolla Tablet crowdfunding campaign was half crowdfunding and half Sailfish OS/Jolla PR then I think they really really can't afford making their backers angry - so maximal openness and frequent updates are IMHO the only way to go now for the Jolla Tablet.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Hmm. I don't really think Jolla has ever intended to base their company off the revenue from the Jolla Tablet (assuming there is any). So I figure it's closer to 100% Sailfish / Jolla PR. (Not that that's a bad thing, mind you.)

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

By your own admission, you have not seen.a Sailfish product yet.
How do you know the software is any good? ;)

I assumed he meant getting it out the door, not necessarily the quality of the product . . .

Software guys do often not grasp the problems shipping hardware the first time around . . .

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Good question! ;) Well, honestly, I do have the SDK, and am enjoying the ability to create Qt-based code with a really slick UI with very little effort. And I can kinda see what Sailfish looks like by running the emulator (even though I still am having constant problems getting the emulator to do what I want). I have hope that I'll be able to quickly and easily get all the code I've written onto the Sailfish platform...

But yeah, I haven't yet seen a physical device running Sailfish, other than in videos. :( It's really getting me down. There's little enjoyment in creating code that only runs on an emulator...

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Just goes to show the difficulties of launching a product... we're probably seeing a lot of the stuff that's usually hidden in other, less open companies.

Dunno about you, but it sorta raises my respect for them. It's still coming, some hiccups, some difficulties, but once delivered it's up to the fans/devs/owners to help build it into something that will be around later.

Wow, I actually sounded like this when the N810 was launched and I loved that device.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

IMO you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you announce targeted delivery time, it will be taken like Gods word to his people and delays will make supporters angry. If there are difficulties and you need to postpone even further you will make supporters even angrier and after that the negativity will be having it's own life that cannot be controlled with any amount of communication. Openness is not one way road, it requires something from the audience also (ie. understanding and good will), otherwise it will only result negativity. This is why I don't believe in openness-ideology anymore. And that's why Sailifish-venture will be my last take on anything community related.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Don't you think we are long past that? If you don't manage to deliver it doesn't matter what you do. Where is the refund option.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

No. Deliveries have already begun, though slowly and most likely because of problems with manufacturer rather than Jolla. So, they will deliver, but very late compared to what was aimed.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

You don't get it, do you. It's like the Pandora's box. Once you've opened it, the daemons have flown out and you have to keep it open so that the good spirits can follow. Open it just a little, see the daemon, then panic and shut it - and you have only the daemons out.

Openness works. So does closeness. What does not work is the hybrid that Jolla is trying to do.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

I just disagree on that as I don't see it as black and white. Openness can work in certain situations but it demands a lot from all parties involved. Will, time and energy to debate and to tolerate poisonous and at times nonconstructive atmosphere is one of them. In case of Jolla, most gripes about communication relate to these two things:

- gripes because information comes out late
- gripes because information contains vague schedules

In reality you can only address one of those. You cannot give anything definite until you have that information yourself, and that may depend on information you need from another parties which may also come in late (while you alone get all the s*** for it). So, if you demand that evrything needs to be "fully open" and communicated earliest time possible, you will have to accept certain amount of vagueness an uncertainty. Well, we all know how well community tolerates such things, so only viable option would be to announce only when you have all the information to have as little vagueness as possible. But then again, there's another storm and complaints that you are not being "open." So, as I said, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't and because the situation impossible to handle in way that pleases everyone, I really cannot find any reason how such openness could ever work in projects like this.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Now we are talking ;)

I may have some news for you. Like gravity, global warming and gun crime, this is not a matter of opinion. It is an observable fact. Unlike individuals, masses are predictable. That is the difference between psychology and sociology. We are not talking about how people should behave. We are talking about how they do.

It's like "wish lines", the paths trodden diagonally through the grass where two paved footpaths cross at right angles. People should walk on the pavement, but they don't. You can manage one individual or even a small group and direct them around, but try managing a crowd of a few hundred. You have only two options: install a fence to force them around (the "closed" solution) or pave the diagonal path across (the "open" solution). Everything else ends up in a mess.

Absolutely correct. Now here is the crux. You can set some expectations from parties involving one, two, or even a hundred individuals if you are skillful enough. But you cannot set expectations involving masses. You need to change your own behaviour.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Yep. And my take on that would be to abandon the openness as ideological choice as it's impossible to implement "correctly" in project that depends on external parties to quite some extent, for very reasons I mentioned in my previous post. You cannot eat an preserve the cake at the same time, as you cannot communicate early with precise schedules when you don't have such information by yourself, which means you cannot succeed in crowd where openness is defined in ideological extreme with no middle ground. We in the community are not "masses" but small group of technologically oriented people who should at least have some idea what kind of problems may be involved with projects like this. Yet, it doesn't show anywhere in our more or less poisonous communication.

Practically this means that people may say they want choice and something "different" (or "unlike"). In fact they are not ready and willing for what it takes to actually have something done in different way. This can be clearly seen in conflicting demands and extreme negativity when those conflicting wishes cannot be met. If openness in projects is like that, it will never work. Hence, it's easy to come to conclusion that it's better not to try it at all.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

I agree with this but

A progress can only achieved by trying, and trying again if you fail. It might take a Steve Job or two but there might be a way to make it work although we cannot yet see it.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Prod to get this thread back on track? Even if it's silence for now as new tablets aren't being delivered/received...

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Well, given that this is now the "Mega Delay Delivery" thread, I'm not entirely sure what the "track" is supposed to be. Presumably, this is now the thread for people who want to bash Jolla...

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

I'd argue that evidence of delays, people receiving tablets and so on are useful to gauge how Jolla is doing with the tablet. A bit of venting is understandable but pages and pages of philosophical views of Jolla's approach to everything and other things are probably irrelevant and deserve another thread (there are some already out there if you search for them, this isn't the first time Jolla is criticised).

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Hmm. I've actually created other threads involving Jolla's Tablet before, and the moderators immediately combined them into this one. So, I guess I'd wait for a moderator to choose to create a separate thread...

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

If you created a specific thread to discuss Jolla's communication and approach to business and openness (or lack of) and it's been merged into this, I'd contact the moderator to have that undone as the topics are clearly different.

I won't blame you for not digging old threads where all these issues were raised; however, there is a risk getting people tired of following this and reporting on their success or failure at getting the tablet. Not a life or death matter anyway.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

??? This is now the "Mega Delay" thread. Therefore, I would assume it is all about Jolla's approach to business. A thread created for the purpose of merely reporting news on the tablet would presumably have a rather different title... :)

But yeah, I guess I'm just still kinda grumpy here. :) I'll try to hold off on the philosophical rants for a while...

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

I promise I will post here when I get my tablet. Pinkie-swear, even.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Corp please give me the thread title and I change it to your likings. You defend jolla what ever happens. But can't handle a thread name ;) or create a new. Whatever suits you.

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

Openness has nothing to do with saying "we are going to ship next month" - "sorry its not next month its the month after" - "soon" - "sorry, its not that month is the one after" - "soon" "before christmas" - "soon" - "sorry after Christmas" - "soon" continue untill bored .....

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Did you mean Cop? As in Copernicus?

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Yep. Sorry. Cop. Good cop. I'm bad cop.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Oh, you were asking me? :) Hey, at least in my opinion, this is your thread; you should be allowed to name it what you want, and do with it what you want!

In truth, my complaint is that there are all sorts of folks trying to impose their particular constraints on this thread -- moderators merging all sorts of other stuff into it in order to make it one single "omnibus" thread, other members trying to filter out certain types of posts in order to constrain the thread to a particular topic of their choosing.

A question to everybody here: before we start telling Dave999 what he should do (if we really should be doing that in the first place), we really ought to make some things clear:

a) Do we need one single omnibus Tablet thread? (And if so, should Dave's thread be the one? Does he really want this thread to be the one?)

or b), Are we going to allow multiple Tablet-related threads, with the associated risk of overlap? (I personally don't see the harm in overlapping threads myself, but yeah, I'm not an expert on these things.)

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Dude. Forget the mods. Step up and take the decision
Don't be such a nice guy all the time ;)

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Very well. Here is your new thread title:

"Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination"

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

This will happen regardless. The focus of this thread has been expanded with the merge; not sure if it addresses the original scope any longer to be honest as branded/named.

Having an official Jolla Tablet Grievances Thread will attract the most attention; but is that your goal now? I doubt it.

Folks want to see the progress (or lack thereof) of Jolla Tablet shipments, so this should happen here in my humble opinion. Other threads will pop up that discuss communication (or lack thereof) from Jolla, their blog updates and of course their user experience, experiments and other idle talk in other threads.

Rename this thread into a catch all perhaps and let the rest just organically happen. That's my unrequested opinion.

Just noticed that Dave999 added glasses to my moustache avatar. That's cute...

I support this.

Re: Jolla tablet's Mega Delay Delivery Thread[Now With Poll]
 

Man that's deep!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

There is no info to share, when were some shipments — there were a lot of posts with about shipment. Now it's stalled, so what exactly the problem.
P.S. I like the few pages of conversation judging not related info in this thread.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The factory has no time to make it now? So maybe they can manage to build some in next month and then December the rest or something. Jolla is not that important customer for them to delay other customers.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

What's wrong with a tablet being a figment of your imagination? Its the idea that is important not a piece of midrange hardware with some nice software on it that is behind schedule. But now I forget. What was the idea?