Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

I've been saying this all along :)
I could not do half the stuff I do with my stylus using just my finger.
I like easy to use things but certainly precision has its extremely well deserved place.

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

Yes, I imagine this would mess you up pretty good. Are we confused or is this really where things are going? Or both? Do people in Finland have pointy, oilless fingers. If so, can someone send me a picture. Maybe I'd be willing to sacrifice my right, middle finger to have these characteristics; it usually only gets me in to trouble anyway.

<Megaphone>Hey Nokia, it's a beautiful 800x480 screen. It's a bit more precise than my oily, corn-fed fingers can handle.</Megaphone>

<Dr. Eevil>Throw me a frickin' bone here, people.</Dr. Eevil>

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

I also seem to be in the minority when it comes to stylus use, I much prefer using the stylus to browse the web, text links are ALWAYS easier to hit with a stylus, plus the art programs on maemo are pretty fun. There is simply times when the accuracy of a stylus is good. I do like finger usage for some purposes and I definitely like a big hardware keyboard like on the N810.
The great thing about the N810 is its versatility which sets it apart from devices like the iphone and I hope that is still pushed as a good thing as the platform matures. The pencil and paper paradigm is still a very useful idea, something like liqbase proves this.

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

Yeah, I've decided I have to somehow replace the default stylus text input and fix my screen real estate usage. Does anyone here use two styli simultaneously? I didn't think so. So why then are we using a virtual typewriter keyboard? And don't get me started on the space hogging space bar; I'm also guessing no one here has opposable styli. This relic takes up 1/3 of the screen. Just give me something customizable that's keypad/dictionary-based in the bottom-right corner. But regardless, the last thing I need is a fullscreen thumb keyboard.

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

What a load of ****.

Have a stylus-driven option and a finger-driven option.

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

Well, you could try QwikScript. Somewhat steep learning curve, but it does take up less real estate.

(I don't agree on your anti-Qwerty rant -- for me, it's where I expect the keys to be, regardless of its inherent faults -- but I'm as unhappy as you about the plan to sacrifice the stylus keyboard and have just that awful screen-obliterating thumb keyboard.)

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

Thanks, I'll take a look. What I was alluding to was a T9++ type thing. No learning curve.

Yes, I didn't mean to leap away from qwerty like that. I'm right handed and I'm coming in to tap from the bottom right corner, so imagine a kind of right angle qwerty with f and g close to the bottom right. I like landscape mode and I like to code on the tablet. So, one nice unobstructed column from top to bottom would help with visibility. Having a keyboard pop up and down is a pain in the ***.

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

Agreed.

Most of this wont matter as voice recognition becomes smarter and smaller. :D

What has alway gone against the use of a stylus for me is the need of a second thing in order to accomplish the first thing... Now where did that dang stylus go, LoL.

That concept is as archaic as the need for a can or bottle opener in order to enjoy a six pack of your favorite ice cold beverage on a warm summer day :)

If in fact there will be no more mini keyboard, this sounds like one could easily be the first major, user developed add-on.

The N800 didn't become truly useful for me until I discovered user developed alternatives to the task navigators like Upir's Command Navigator and then fiferboy's Personal Menu. These and Personal Launcher have definitely made life easier.

It is also when I discovered that the NIT's value to me wasn't so much as a data input device as it was a data monitoring device. One that could be easily switched between many different sources.

Edit: Sorry daperl I started my post before your response was posted. ... and it took me that dang long on a dang full sized keyboard :eek: :D

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

There's two parts to UI usability: input and output. For me output usability (eg how much you can see without having to scroll etc) peaked at Bora and has been going downhill since. I put up with it because the underlying system keeps getting better, but really, why all this hostility towards the stylus? I have opposable thumbs and know how to use them!

Re: Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation
 

The whole usability thing would deserve a thread of it's own (yet again), Kate Alhola's Maemo presentation doesn't deserve to get overlooked by all ths stylus vs. finger noise. ;)

Having said that and knowing nobody will care, anyway:
Thanks, lma, for the nice phrasing of "input and output usability". I believe you put into words what many of us feel but couldn't easily express.

I had a discussion recently after the Maemo/Android/Openmoko-presentation I gave; I talked to someone who once owned an iPhone and sold it because of its touchscreen-only UI in favor of some S60 device I can't remember.

We didn't agree on much, but we did agree on the point that the whole concept of a touchscreen as an input device for mobile use is wrong. Mobile use would require haptic feedback and one-finger-use, something a D-pad and a small numeric keyboard with T9 can provide very well, but touchscreens and full QUERTY-keyboards can't.
We both thought of the touchscreen as an ersatz mouse, something you build into a device for situations when a mouse would be adequate, but isn't feasible. A compromise we have to use because we lack a better technology. Also, we found that the use cases that make you want to use a pointing device (mouse/keypad/touchscreen) rather than a plain D-pad are not mobile use cases. You don't surf, chat, work on a spreadsheet while you walk. You may answer a call or maybe even type a short text message. But everything else you do while you sit and have the device in front of you, on a table, on your lap, whereever. So the N8x0 isn't a mobile device in terms of mobile use. It's a mobile device in terms of "carry around, then use when you're no longer moving".

Given this, I think we needn't expect a(ny) touch screen UI to be generally suitable for mobile use (one finger, large UI elements), we should be brave and make the most of it in terms of input and output usability... and therefore use... a stylus. (The one and only valid point against the stylus is that it's not ideal for mobile use.)