maemo.org - Talk - Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Maemo 5 / Fremantle (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40)

- - Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32676)

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Someone should sticky this sucka, ideally in apps. :)

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

The problem now is, correct me if I'm wrong, that you can't easily see out of which repo the package in the package manager comes. You have "extras" but are these the safe or the unsafe extras..
A colour will probably help a lot! Don't know if it's possible to modify the package manager though.

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckyduck (Post 345531)

The package manager shows it in the details summary.
But you shouldn't configure extras-devel on your device at all. :)
It's mostly stuff for N8x0 that was just uploaded to the Fremantle autobuilder.

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVee (Post 343686)

The warning should really be phrased positive, e.g. "Feel free to play with this software, but be aware that..." And add the 'Restore factory image' instructions in there, doing so will scare more people away then any warning will. ;)

You raise a good point: we want to encourage testing but warn of possible consequences, so the overall tone should indeed be positive but with very clear caveats. In addition, paths to bug/suggestion reporting should be clearly included.

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

I was reflecting on this today, having volunteered my not-yet-arrived n900 for a few bits of testing already, and wondering how to say what we want to say to people about the test programme without being overly alarming, with a proper disclaimer but also a reassurance.

I came up with something like this (Please note the tech in here is mostly guess!)

Quote:

Welcome to the Developers-extras section of maemo.org.

Please note that all the applications and widgets in this area are still under development. They have been placed here so that volunteers can test them.

As such, these applications cannot be guranteed to be to bug-free, and installing them may cause your device to freeze, crash, or in rare cases become unstable. If you choose to go ahead and encounter problems, your device can usually be restored by a warm reboot (Turn off, turn back on) or a cold reboot (turn off, remove the battery, replace the battery and turn back on). In exceptional cases, it may be necessary to restore your device to the factory settings: this can be done by reinstalling the operating system (known as 'flashing the firmware'). For full details, go here: (Insert link here).

Development of these applications depends on people being willing to try them out and provide feedback. If you do install one of these items, please remember to return here and vote, providing feedback particularly on stability, smoothness, usefulness and user-friendliness.

Thank you, and welcome to the 'Extras-development-testing repository'

This comes with suitable warnings, advice if you have problems, and an invitation to be part of the testing, without the 'You shouldn't be here' bit. I think it might result in more volunteers, yet it still gives due notice of possible problems.

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 350190)

...As such, these applications cannot be guranteed to be to bug-free...

And the other applications can be?

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckyduck (Post 343743)

I made the "mistake" yesterday, I enabled the dev repo and started installing programs, this, that, that, this.... The memory information tool says I have 2GB of memory, so who cares?
Until the moment that my phone froze.. 0 bytes free in root..

This is a real issue - unless maemo intends to limit the number of applications available for download to under 233MB space in root, it is a design problem, as far as I can see.

Since other things besides installed applications can fill up the root tree (though they should not) perhaps the device could watch the filesystem and give a chance to abort writes when near end of space.

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnimS (Post 355091)

So this brings up a question, if root, or rootfs is running as is expected by Maemo architects, how much space is enough? I've got a new n900 that i've installed a few apps, mainly from the 'approved' repositories, and when I run df it shows over 70% in use for 'rootfs'. Is this expected and how much free space is needed before things start to fall apart?

thx

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnimS (Post 355091)

This is a real issue - unless maemo intends to limit the number of applications available for download to under 233MB space in root, it is a design problem, as far as I can see.

Just to clear up a few things - as much as I hate the /opt problem, we're talking about dev repos here. There is no guarantee about anything there - it's the wild west. So yeah, stuff should gravitate to optification, but the chief rule is still caveat emptor.

Quote:

Since other things besides installed applications can fill up the root tree (though they should not) perhaps the device could watch the filesystem and give a chance to abort writes when near end of space.

Since it's a compressed FS this is a bit tricky. There was the idea of the autobuilder inserting a helper field in the debs about the 'real' disk usage of a package (to prevent even considering packages that can't fit), but I don't know what happened to that train of though...

Re: Seriously: don't send users out of Extras without a big warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypoxic (Post 404316)

On a related note, also see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450