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-   -   Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34120)

marcinw 2009-11-09 20:23
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 370159)
And that's completely irrelevant. You are complaining that there's no community here (which is already quite wrong) and then assuming community means just programmers when it's FAR from the case in ANY community.

Next time, instead of writing up your little rant... how about you put a little research into your claims beforehand, huh?
yes, there is not real community here like in some other Open Source projects at least in this moment.

It was interesting for me, if "zerojay" made some projects and what was/is their ranking. I wanted to estimate, what is his effort. I didn't say, that community means just programmers.

Rauha 2009-11-09 20:24
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370164)
Fact, that big company has got employes in some country, doesn't mean, that they work on Open Source projects. For example Nokia Poland - they seems to sell phones only.
I don't really understand your point. Are you saying that Nokia should offer open source jobs in every country on the planet?

wmarone 2009-11-09 20:27
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370176)
yes, there is not real community here like in some other Open Source projects at least in this moment.

It was interesting for me, if "zerojay" made some projects and what was/is their ranking. I wanted to estimate, what is his effort. I didn't say, that community means just programmers.
What makes you say that there is no community? It seems that there is quite a large one already, and it's growing because of the N900 release. Your "estimation" of his effort by demanding links to projects to see their ranking is poor at best, and outright false at worst.

Comparing the Maemo community to other communities is an invalid, irrelevant metric.

marcinw 2009-11-09 20:31
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 370177)
I don't really understand your point. Are you saying that Nokia should offer open source jobs in every country on the planet?
I started from proving, that Nokia's behaviours related to Open Source are similar than years ago. Somebody notified, that they are giving jobs related to it. I answered, that they're making it in Finland (and somebody added, that in India/California). Nothing more.

Conclusion (after this and other observations): they're not so "open source opened" like they (or some people) say.

JayOnThaBeat 2009-11-09 20:32
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370176)
yes, there is not real community here like in some other Open Source projects at least in this moment.

It was interesting for me, if "zerojay" made some projects and what was/is their ranking. I wanted to estimate, what is his effort. I didn't say, that community means just programmers.
FYI, zerojay was this [---| |---] close to being on the community council. He must be doing something..........

benny1967 2009-11-09 20:35
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
marcinw, do you have any idea how old the Maemo project actually is? How much Nokia struggled in the past to get things right - playing by the rules of an open community, aligning to upstream projects (Maemo isn't a universe of its own, it upstream, upstream and upstream) while still at the same time protecting the commercial interests of their stakeholders? My dear... All the stories and ups and downs we had since they announced the 770.

You know what? No, Nokia is not an open source project. It doesn't even claim to be one. And: Maemo is not something they do because they want to help the free software movement. They do it for business reasons. But: They've learned during the last years that if they want to be commercially successful with a product based on free software, you have to be part of a community, you have to play by the rules, you must earn the trust of other projects.

The community, OTOH, had to learn that some things don't change within a company like Nokia and you can't expect them to - I don't know - give up all their patents, never use DRM again and GPL the last piece of code they find in the vaults of their software archives.

There's 10.000 things about Nokia in general and Maemo in particular that I don't like too much... that drive me nuts, actually.
But I trust them when they say they're serious about being as open as they can. I trust them when they say they would like to be even more open and hope that they can be in the future. And I trust them when they say they're committed to openness.

marcinw 2009-11-09 20:39
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 370182)
What makes you say that there is no community? It seems that there is quite a large one already, and it's growing because of the N900 release. Your "estimation" of his effort by demanding links to projects to see their ranking is poor at best, and outright false at worst.

Comparing the Maemo community to other communities is an invalid, irrelevant metric.
There are many people registered and many people, who are writing a lot of posts. But we can see also, that in the time when the is lack of N900s and some developers are asking for them, some people with discounts are saying - we will maybe use our coupons, maybe not... Is this real community ? Sorry, I don't buy it.

bongo 2009-11-09 20:39
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 369100)
6310i
I loved that one :)

Rauha 2009-11-09 20:49
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370188)
I started from proving, that Nokia's behaviours related to Open Source are similar than years ago. Somebody notified, that they are giving jobs related to it. I answered, that they're making it in Finland (and somebody added, that in India/California). Nothing more.

Conclusion (after this and other observations): they're not so "open source opened" like they (or some people) say.
And what does offering jobs "only" in Finland, California and India have to do with being open sourced?!? I dont see any connection at all.

Again, I don't understand what is the problem? Nokia has spread its R&D very internationally. It seems that yuo wouldn't be happy unless they offered just the kind of jobs you want in just the country you want. There are opportunities in 3 different continents. Offering them in every country in planet would be insanely expensive.

marcinw 2009-11-09 20:50
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 370195)
marcinw, do you have any idea how old the Maemo project actually is? How much Nokia struggled in the past to get things right - playing by the rules of an open community, aligning to upstream projects (Maemo isn't a universe of its own, it upstream, upstream and upstream) while still at the same time protecting the commercial interests of their stakeholders? My dear... All the stories and ups and downs we had since they announced the 770.

You know what? No, Nokia is not an open source project. It doesn't even claim to be one. And: Maemo is not something they do because they want to help the free software movement. They do it for business reasons. But: They've learned during the last years that if they want to be commercially successful with a product based on free software, you have to be part of a community, you have to play by the rules, you must earn the trust of other projects.

The community, OTOH, had to learn that some things don't change within a company like Nokia and you can't expect them to - I don't know - give up all their patents, never use DRM again and GPL the last piece of code they find in the vaults of their software archives.

There's 10.000 things about Nokia in general and Maemo in particular that I don't like too much... that drive me nuts, actually.
But I trust them when they say they're serious about being as open as they can. I trust them when they say they would like to be even more open and hope that they can be in the future. And I trust them when they say they're committed to openness.
Yes ! Generally we think similiary. They're not so "open source friendly" like they're say. What's what this thread is about...

And we differ in one thing: during 10 years they showed, that they're not committed to openness.


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