maemo.org - Talk - MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)

- - MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78462)

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1103889)

I want to know something i do not understand about meego.

Is meego an OS or is it a UI or GUI ?.

MeeGo *was* everything mixed up in one, and it paid the price for it. That's one of the mistakes we want to avoid.

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1103891)

MeeGo *was* everything mixed up in one, and it paid the price for it. That's one of the mistakes we want to avoid.

Thankyou Woot for being a gentleman and answering me.

OK now i understand fully why meego has never been successful.

If you want to develop meego to be recognised by anyone who will use it then it MUST be capable as an operating system if it is to even run properly.

As a UI/GUI it must be capable of working with the OS it is being used with or it will fall flat on its face.

What has happened is very basically the interaction between the OS as a user interface, this is always where the problem has occured.

IF meego is to be used as an OS then ALL and every driver must be in place within the structure of its BIOS and this is what has never been accomplished.

What has happened is the development has been limited because of driver source and as a UI it is clashing with instead of working with the OS.

IF meego as an OS is to even work then ALL source must be available and here we start with the problem of development for the N900 because for me i still do not understand what the adaption was, ie an OS or a UI/GUI.

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolai (Post 1103875)

So, what would make me a device hacker?
And what is the hardware adaption part. Can
I (or any N9(50) owner) use the mer core, already?
I followed the meego ce wiki page, but I could find
the mentioned bootloader (moslo) for booting th N950
meego ce image.

Device hacker is anyone with a sane amount of knowledge on how a typical OS works and wants to put it on a device. N9/N950 users will have the MOSLO in due time, we had some bureaucracy due to this.

Hardware adaptation is things like: configuration files for hardware, kernel, GLESv2/EGL libraries, modem drivers, etc.

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1103894)

for me i still do not understand what the adaption was, ie an OS or a UI/GUI.

Yes it seems you never really understood what it was, and still ranted so much about it.
In my understanding, MeeGo was a common core:
- entirely open source (like, 100%).
- with reference UI for the targetted platforms. These were never meant to be consumer UI. Just an example of what can be done, and a base framework to test your app in for developpers.

Then, the MeeGo Hardware Adaptation project was adding the Nxxx specific drivers and tuning for having the core booting and running correctly on these devices, without care for the UI.

Finally, the MeeGo CE project (different project but same people) was adding a UI on the Hardware Adaptation project, and bundling some application with the goal of making it "daily use ready". This was at first based on the reference handset UI, but there was discussions at some point to use the tablet UI, and they could have used/devellopped a completely different one in the future.

And after that, there was the abill_uk project, complaining that MeeGo (from netbook to IVI) was failling because the MeeGo CE project was not progressing rapidly enough for him.

In order to stop logicless people from ranting, the Mer project is now without reference UI ;)

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.

What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1103907)

I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.

What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?

As stated many times, in many places:

Mer:

Quote:

To get one thing out in the open: this is just the core OS, a Linux distribution. There is no UI, and hardware adaptations are seperate from that core OS. It's an extremely slim Linux vehicle for making products out of. What you put on top is entirely your business - it's just a tool.

Mer Hardware:

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoku (Post 1103274)

Actually, kernel is a part of Mer's Hardware Adaptation, not Mer's Core.

UI (not Mer):

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1103864)

...so then I go pick a UX project (MeeGo CE or Plasma Active or Cordia or something else),...

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1103907)

I still do not get an answer to my question so i will ask again.

What is this meego to be? is it to be an OS or a UI/GUI ?

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this, but here goes.

Mer is a core. An OS that boots to a display with nothing on it (as I said). No UI, no GUI. You are not expected to run this, it's only of interest to people making devices, or people making UIs.

To get something that you can actually run, put another project, such as Cordia, handset CE, or Plasma Active on top. *They* have a UI.

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1103864)

Okay, so let's say I'm a device hacker. I have $mysterious_device. I want to get rid of $crappy_os and put something nice, open, and hackable on there. I take Mer, I create a "hardware adaptation" repository for $mysterious_device, then I create an image pulling in both Mer and packages for hardware adaptation, and if all goes well, I have an image that will boot, start a display, and not do much else.

I decide that having a black screen is all very interesting but I'd actually like to put something on it, so then I go pick a UX project (MeeGo CE or Plasma Active or Cordia or something else), and drop them into my image building configuration, build a new image, if all goes well - when I install it - I have an image that boots to display and then starts that UX.

Riddle me this though: for a device hacker who already has a Linux "hardware adaptation" for $mysterious_device to place at the bottom and a decent UI to throw on top, what makes Mer the best choice for the bits inbetween instead of some other distribution like say Debian or OpenEmbedded?

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by erendorn (Post 1103906)

Not much of this actually makes sense to me because it seems all self inflicting.

Meego is common core you say but what "core" was it? was it a UI/GUI or was it an OS?.

If it is supposed to be an OS then it must have all source available for the device this OS is to be written for OR are you saying it will be a "common" OS?.

My god you got some work to do if you are to make this a common OS because you then have to incorporate every single driver for every single CPU and component within any device that has been manufactured, the same as Windows is capable of being programmed into any computer as it has all the needed drivers incorperated within its entirety as a multi OS for any device/computer.

"Then, the MeeGo Hardware Adaptation project was adding the Nxxx specific drivers and tuning for having the core booting and running correctly on these devices, without care for the UI."

This is non logical because without care of the UI it cannot be accomplished and this kind of dumfounds me.

"Finally, the MeeGo CE project (different project but same people) was adding a UI on the Hardware Adaptation project, and bundling some application with the goal of making it "daily use ready". This was at first based on the reference handset UI, but there was discussions at some point to use the tablet UI, and they could have used/devellopped a completely different one in the future."

What is the "hardware adaption project" ? is it OS or UI/GUI ?.

What i am trying to esablish here is knowledge of the actual understanding of the meego "build" and just what is it actually meant to be.

Re: MeeGo Reconstructed - a plan of action and direction for MeeGo

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t (Post 1103913)

But but how on earth can an OS be designed around CLOSED components???.

Do you really think that manufacturers will give you all source code to the devices they have put in there particular design? because without this there can not be an OS of any kind.

Or are you going to start from scratch with data sheets of every component?.