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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Competitors (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=86085)

herpderp 2012-08-20 09:32
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1253606)
Or maybe carriers didn't want to sell any of the devices because they where more of a toys rather than viable options with enough of software support behind them even before the burning platform and all?

I would have been hesitant to get Maemo/MeeGo phone as a operator. I can imagine majority of people being disappointed by the lackluster software outside the core UI and lots of returns if the phone would have been pushed to larger audience.

What people want in these kind of forums don't even represent the 0.000001% of the market out there.
There's example a reason why there's no qwerty phones anymore, Samsung and Nokia did actually try to sell them 2-3 years ago, but they are simply not selling even in the kind of volumes that make them viable option anymore in high end.

I doubt even Jolla will be making their phone with a qwerty and i hope they wont. These kind of minorities should not be the ones pushing companies like these in anyway just because they are the most vocal ones in certain niche.
I hope the people in Jolla have also learned that when they where working for Nokia.
Finally, someone who gets it.

I see most users around here have no idea how a company works... They think if they try hard enough, they can give them "advice" and send them their requests and ramblings.

What you're talking about is true, as all market research already demonstrated, and Jolla is probably aware of this too. This market research thing is probably a lot more valuable to them than some kid writing an e-mail about their OSS dreams.

arkanoid 2012-08-20 12:53
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1253606)

...

There's example a reason why there's no qwerty phones anymore, Samsung and Nokia did actually try to sell them 2-3 years ago, but they are simply not selling even in the kind of volumes that make them viable option anymore in high end.
Well, I did not see any efforts that count like "actually try to sell".
And niche position is just ok. That's another management problem: if you are a "phone company" you inevitably compare niche products with bestseller ones. And it just does not work that way. It was stupid to compare sales of Nokia 9110 with sales of Nokia 3210 and make a conclusion that "9110 failed". Actually you do compete to other players in the same niche and should compare to them, not to some other thing that is called by similar name by an accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1253606)
I doubt even Jolla will be making their phone with a qwerty and i hope they wont. These kind of minorities should not be the ones pushing companies like these in anyway just because they are the most vocal ones in certain niche.
I hope the people in Jolla have also learned that when they where working for Nokia.
There is another problem: to get outside of the niche you need to spend ENORMOUS effort on QA and usability. I see it to be almost impossible for a relatively small startup and newly developed product. First iPhone was a niche player as well, don't you remember that? It wasn't really even a smartphone.

Better get a solid position *inside* a niche where you already do have credit, respect and customers willing to pay. *Then* you may walk out of the closet.

arkanoid 2012-08-20 14:31
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
I woudn't overestimate "market research". It can predict almost nothing if your product is really innovative. Well, you can give up with innovations and feel confident with "market research". As you see everyone chose this way.

Helmuth 2012-08-20 14:42
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
I'm just wondering... does anyone know if Jolla (Mer) does also store sensitive data (my contacts, calendar and SMS) inside the tracker database?

So if the tracker indexer stops creating thumbnails I lose in the worst case all my data?

This was the biggest issue I had with Harmattan. Apart from this, the most perfect device out there...

arkanoid 2012-08-20 14:50
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Yes. And it may go ALL WRONG and there is no simple way to repair the tracker database. See famous "merge bug" and all glitches like that.

Lack of crypto support everywhere is what worries me as well.

We have gpg and openssl on the phone, but no encrypted mail, OTR and SRTP. It just sucks. Most other mobile platforms have FDE at least, but for some unknown reason not Maemo/Meego.

Having no option to protect your privacy is plain stupid (though non-issue for most customers :-( )

I also remember good old days when backup was just the filesystem image -> no issues with applications install and data in unexpected places. But it is just incompatible with treacherous computing principle.

Ah, well. Disregard this whole post. Tracker problems are REALLY ruining user experience, while everything else is just geeks whining.

arkanoid 2012-08-24 06:59
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
And yet another crazy thing with harmattan -- state handling:

How is address book sync done in MfE? Once a while, DROP all synced contact and fetch them from a server.

Home screen feeds? Yes, DROP current state and try to update.

Weather update? Yes, FORGET current weeather data and fetch new.

Guys, did you ever have QA at all? Did you have basic mental health check when hiring people? Whoever invented that is completely out of his mind.

Lumiaman 2012-09-01 15:15
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkanoid (Post 1255187)
And yet another crazy thing with harmattan -- state handling:

How is address book sync done in MfE? Once a while, DROP all synced contact and fetch them from a server.

Home screen feeds? Yes, DROP current state and try to update.

Weather update? Yes, FORGET current weeather data and fetch new.

Guys, did you ever have QA at all? Did you have basic mental health check when hiring people? Whoever invented that is completely out of his mind.
You hit the nail on the head. That is why JOLLA will not succeed. If the same leadership is in charge of JOLLA that was in charge of Harmattan.....good luck amigos

mikecomputing 2012-09-02 08:00
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth (Post 1253789)
I'm just wondering... does anyone know if Jolla (Mer) does also store sensitive data (my contacts, calendar and SMS) inside the tracker database?

So if the tracker indexer stops creating thumbnails I lose in the worst case all my data?

This was the biggest issue I had with Harmattan. Apart from this, the most perfect device out there...
isnt tracker an indexer? Why on earth do they indexing password :O

but yes tracker seems to have stupid issues that need to be fixed however tracker is fully opensource

Stskeeps 2012-09-02 08:20
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1259217)
You hit the nail on the head. That is why JOLLA will not succeed. If the same leadership is in charge of JOLLA that was in charge of Harmattan.....good luck amigos
This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way towards your nickname, but many of those who were in charge of Harmattan and partially responsible for many of the shipwrecks (but also some of them successes) in Harmattan - are now responsible for Windows Phone parts at Nokia. Developer relations, program management, marketing..

Go look it up on LinkedIn.

Dave999 2012-09-02 08:36
Re: My letter to Jolla and what was wrong with Harmattan
 
Jolla won't to be a major success. They are trying to survive in the market to release another phone. Add to that that they won't release a high-end device.

No one here can possibly believe that Jolla can compete with android or IOS or even windows phone.

I can tell you right now. If they survive the first release and then get another chance the could grow slightly. But need years to build branding and and consumer base. And one failed release means the end.

Unless they have someone who loves to wasting money like Microsoft pushing windows. That is the muscle jolla needs to live to see another device.

Good luck Jolla. I'm waiting for your low-end phone.

I' will probably buy it, but not as my main phone. I will do becouse I like the idea of Meego and Linux. Not because its a great phone!
Chuck


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