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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96184)

Stskeeps 2015-11-20 20:31
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 1488858)
Another thought: smartphones are dead.

<snip>

I guess that's why Stskeeps was careful in saying "the mobile market", and not the smartphone market.
I think that it'll be very long time until WiFi or 3G/4G connected slabs of different sizes go away though, but they're very rapidly reaching into very-small-$ with minimal margin. That also means they can be used in different circumstances though.

Who says they have to be our primary interaction devices, or primary center of our digital identity, though?

javispedro 2015-11-20 20:32
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1488860)
Hmm. Honestly, it just feels to me like this is asking the question backwards. Whenever you state that you can create mobile device X to serve purpose Y using an OS based on AOSP, I get the feeling that I could already point to an existing mobile device X serving purpose Y that runs Google Play-based Android. Or, at the very least, I could produce such a device. And in doing so, I'd avoid all the costs of creating a new OS, and still be able to sell to users who already have experience (and infrastructure!) running standard Android devices.
I agree there. This entire emphasis on Android, AOSP, even hybris, all look to me "I have a hammer here and everything looks a nail". Everyone can do that, and everyone will do that -- cheap.

Maybe it's not the right tool...

Stskeeps 2015-11-20 20:33
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1488860)
Hmm. Honestly, it just feels to me like this is asking the question backwards. Whenever you state that you can create mobile device X to serve purpose Y using an OS based on AOSP, I get the feeling that I could already point to an existing mobile device X serving purpose Y that runs Google Play-based Android. Or, at the very least, I could produce such a device. And in doing so, I'd avoid all the costs of creating a new OS, and still be able to sell to users who already have experience (and infrastructure!) running standard Android devices.
I think it's too late to do a new OS if you were starting in 2015, or at least, how you would consider a traditional OS of hardware adaptation, middleware, linux kernel, c libraries and stuff. What's left?

Quote:

If, instead, what you are trying to sell is the OS itself, I think you need to look at the concept of the OS in a new way. The Solu guys are a good example here; they are (bizarrely in my opinion) still tying themselves to a specific hardware device, but their OS is instead mostly cloud-based, and allows you to perform tasks that straddle devices (and the internet itself). In short, they do something that iOS and Android don't do (or, at least, don't do well)

<snip>
.
They are (AFAIK) a web runtime on top of a supposedly heavily modified Android.

mardy 2015-11-20 20:33
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1488857)
Yeah, I've heard my share of rumours about it: such as utilizing libmeegotouch ;).
Nooo, we are crazy, but this has never been an option. :) Actually, the first prototypes were using Nux (the library used in Unity7), so indeed we have been wasting some time.

Quote:
But it certainly accelerated matters: allowing Ubuntu Touch to be able to present a quite decent tech demo @ MWC that year.. and then take quite a long time to bring product to market.
Absolutely. :)

szopin 2015-11-20 20:35
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Ok, either YT is hiding those from me (tried quite a few searches, with android models explicitly in the search string, with chroot, no luck), or it hasn't happened (million developers (probably a few million if we assume average developers for an app is >1) did not try it, brag about it, or failed? it is a cow even on desktop so could be that it is possible but just in theory, should be quite easy on fresh libc/x setup). With hwkbds that would be quite a thing to differentiate (most developers have a few phones anyway, buying jolla for that special thing would be a no brainer, add hdmi-out and usbotg and you can plug it to your tv, plug in mouse and the dream is here)

Stskeeps 2015-11-20 20:36
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1488863)
Why didn't sail and Ubuntu work together in this parallel universe of fiction?
I don't know (* Sail as understood as "Maemo-MeeGo people). There's surprisingily little amount of ex-Nokians that ended up at Canonical compared to elsewhere - there's some of course, but not many. Despite the Debian background of Maemo.

Perhaps people had enough of debian packaging? :p

gerbick 2015-11-20 20:52
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fk_lx (Post 1488873)
Well, average engineers with good team skills can often do better than a group of selfish/sailfish rockstars.
What does this even mean? Even Apple has faltered in recent (enough) history. This is perhaps as inflammatory of a response as I'd ever expect from a scorned lover. Simply stated, it could have gone unsaid because it matters none.

Quote:
Regarding the topic, if Jolla wouldn't exist then probably more contributors would stick around Ubuntu Touch and Tizen, boosting development of those platforms or their app ecosystems.
Too bad Tizen has seen a limited release (India, China and Russia so far) and Ubuntu Touch is seen as a hard failure not even delivering an user experience that's consistent with the prior PR and whatever else Shuttleworth has stated. And Tizen would be a failure even if compared to just one of the more recent Samsung Galaxy devices.

So give me an example of a "rockstar" set of 120 or less engineers that's: 1) launched a phone, 2) created a SDK, 3) produced an OS, 4) updated their OS, 5) produced libhybris (used by: Ubuntu Touch, WebOS and others) and 6) got tablets out in the hands of core developers.

Be very specific. I'll wait.

javispedro 2015-11-20 20:57
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1488869)
Ok, either YT is hiding those from me (tried quite a few searches, with android models explicitly in the search string, with chroot, no luck), or it hasn't happened (million developers (probably a few million if we assume average developers for an app is >1) did not try it, brag about it, or failed? it is a cow even on desktop so could be that it is possible but just in theory, should be quite easy on fresh libc/x setup). With hwkbds that would be quite a thing to differentiate (most developers have a few phones anyway, buying jolla for that special thing would be a no brainer, add hdmi-out and usbotg and you can plug it to your tv, plug in mouse and the dream is here)
You can have a "fresh libc/x" chroot on android. Just search for Debian, Ubuntu chroot, etc. If they don't specifically brag about Eclipse I'd bet it has more to do with the way Eclipse looks on a 800x480 window.

szopin 2015-11-20 21:01
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 1488881)
You can have a "fresh libc/x" chroot on android. Just search for Debian, Ubuntu chroot, etc. If they don't specifically brag about Eclipse I'd bet it has more to do with the way Eclipse looks on a 800x480 window.
Thanks, but galaxies have fullHD and some even 4k screens, some with hdmi ports, so the dream of plug tv and mouse/kb should be already here, what's up with that?
edit: bit of ducking (no typo) around, looks like problem with swing and arm and java dropping arm support, so most likely won't work on jolla, wonder if iOS development would or is also x86 limited, still being able to compile/build programs for your mobile platform on the mobile platform itself is differentiating (like flashing n900 with another n900, that was awesome), but if not for the millions of already developers out there, not a big sell, shame

Zeta 2015-11-20 21:03
Re: Alternative history: What if Jolla never existed?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1488802)
tld;r: a group of talented people get together today, in 2015; to disrupt mobile, what should they do?
I can't help, but think of this message you left a few days ago :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1488328)
I'm becoming an entrepreneur again in order to pursue some ideas of my own that are a bit outside the typical thinking
Should any link be seen between them ? ;)

By the way, I wish you all the best for this new project !


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