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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   General (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   The new QWERTY device project (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99632)

Dave999 2017-07-22 20:24
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabouik (Post 1531121)
But how relevant is it? You should probably not base all your assumptions about the capability of Sailfish handling a landscape keyboard slider... On your experience using Sailfish in landscape without the keyboard.

The tohkbd really helped a lot in all ways, from just handling the device without an awkward uncomfortable grip (since you don't risk touching or obstructing the screen by mistake) to general use with the key input. Things like Alt+Tab or ability to type codes with the hardware keys really change the experience, and Dirkvl and Kimmoli managed to have them very well integrated in Sailfish. Heck, Sailfish even started to support hardware keyboards in the Input section of the settings in a later update.

From my experience with the Jolla+tohkbd, I can tell Sailfish is not bad at all for handling a landscape keyboard slider (I don't even see how Android would do better), and it does not cripple it either. You can still use it in portrait mode with the touchscreen without any sacrifice (which was not the case in Maemo 5, despite all the good things I think about Maemo 5). I think this is what the Lauta is about: a landscape keyboard slider with a modern OS (not something limited to hackers, but compatible with them) and still an everyday "smartphone".

About Harmattan, I'm not sure it's an option. Is it fully open and maintained? Even if it could be ported, we don't want something that is not maintained anymore and will be full of security faults or incompatible with newer protocols and applications.
I thing you read way to much into this discussion.This what I wrote. Nothing more nothing less.

"But sailfish has a long way to be able to handle a landscape qwerty slider."

Not sure what you are on about ;)

Kabouik 2017-07-22 20:39
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
I'll give that to you, I probably shouldn't have gone into such a lengthy message. :D Sorry about that, nothing personal anyway and I meant no offense.

Anyway, long story short, I personally disagree with the statement that Sailfish has a long way to be able to handle a landscape qwerty slider, as a user who has actually used Sailfish with such a keyboard for months. But since this opinion is totally personal, I wanted to know what supported yours. Since you seem not to have used a keyboard with Sailfish (but just landscape mode), I'm a little skeptical about this statement that Sailfish would presumably be less potent than another OS for this.

elros34 2017-07-22 20:58
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp107 (Post 1531093)
For example "sticky keys" function (when I don't need to push Shift + other key nut once but I can click Shift and then other key, of course using both keys at once also do work) is very useable for me on Motorola Droid 4. Sailfish lacks this function.
That's not true. Sailfish support even sticky shift + alt combination.

Feathers McGraw 2017-07-22 20:59
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Kabouik and Wicket, thank you for both of your posts, I wish I could thank you twice! Lots of good points in there.

Chen, I think a lot of this depends on the price point.

If the price point is high, the device has to last a really long time and therefore relying on an Android kernel that will become outdated/unsupported quite quickly becomes a problem. In this situation, a chip with mainline Linux kernel support would be very important.

If the price is lower then people are more likely to buy this device and then replace it with your next product (!) in a few years, so a fixed kernel is less of a problem. If you ship it with Android (LineageOS preferably) and good libhybris support is available (polished community port of SailfishOS) then it would enable other mobile OSes to be ported too (many of them use libhybris) and the community could work on something like sfdroid for Android support.

Have you spoken to Jolla about this, and are you free (contractually) to discuss how much official SFOS support could cost? Presumably this depends on what is included - would be interesting to know what the cost of the following items is:
  • providing "perfect" libhybris support
  • licenses for proprietary libs xt9 and exchange
  • aliendalvik

I expect aliendalvik makes up the biggest chunk of the cost, since it's a big chunk of development work.

Even though I got stung on the Neo900, I'm highly likely to back this project. Careful with polls - you'll probably pick up some noise from people who have no intention of putting their money where their mouth is!

Kabouik 2017-07-22 21:29
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
I agree on that, polls about the direction of a project must be considered very carefully for many reasons, including this one. Same goes for crowdfunding stretch goals by the way. :D

Good point on the obsolescence of the device and the kernel. Since we're probably not going to see such projects very often (even though Chen spoke of the Lauta revival as only the beginning of something on the longer term), I would definitely prefer something long-lived. That, and community ports (either for Sailfish, although again I'd prefer having Aliendalvik included, or other OSes as well) take time, especially with limited ressources and contributors. So many good software/OS projects die before completion just because the target hardware ends up being considered too outdated for people to be interested (even though the hardware is still plenty enough for the said projects), leading to less contributors and slow death of development.

nthn 2017-07-22 22:36
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp107 (Post 1531093)
Unfortunately, I agree.
For example "sticky keys" function (when I don't need to push Shift + other key nut once but I can click Shift and then other key, of course using both keys at once also do work) is very useable for me on Motorola Droid 4. Sailfish lacks this function.
If I remember correctly, this is just a matter of which modifier is mapped to the key, at least I got sticky keys working last time I tried. Could/should be exposed in the interface, but if you're already remapping keys, a different Shift isn't much extra work.

nthn 2017-07-22 22:45
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
By the way, it would be nice if people could stop directly quoting Dave999, because those direct quotes circumvent the ignore list, and I accidentally end up reading nonsense.

kinggo 2017-07-22 23:12
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1531098)
First define a 'commercial success'. How many units need to be sold for what price?
More than 17 of us here that are still hanging here and hoping for some kind of alternative.
Ideally, he needs HW that can run both.

Dave999 2017-07-23 05:48
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
What about Tizen?

https://source.tizen.org

I think we should atleast look at that as a option in this early state.

ibrakalifa 2017-07-23 08:12
Re: The choice of OS of the new QWERTY device project
 
Can we buy harmattan license and bring that beast alive again?


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