Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

By releasing the device a sunny day!

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I would say iPhone 4S is the perfect size.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

If it gets released, will you buy it?

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

hahahhahahahhahahahahhahahah
lol!!!!

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I think it’s a bit to early to talk about that. Do we even have device or just some proto mockups?

Value+price+support chen < 999 and i might buy it.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

hahahahaaha
HtheB....
nonono...man
u so funny!
:D

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

About that I couldn't keep my mouth shut :D
I like to watch old movies too. They come with black stripes on top and bottom and - as someone said recently - if there is a duel of two gunmen you might only see the guns but the heroes get cut on the left an right off the screen by the cropping. That's because it has been a film made for cinema 21:9, that got cut down for old tv format 4:3.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

The Nokia N810 wasn't a tiny one either. Would have preferred N900 HW in that case.

Also I don't remember N900 being transflective. If it is, then the touch panel ruins it. When I repaired my N900 I looked through the touch and it is like wearing sunglasses...
What surely is sunlight readable transflective LCD is Nokia N95 8GB or Nokia 6300, but keep in mind that in direct sunlight everything appears in grayscale!!!
So an AMOLED with huge brightness is maybe more desirable afterall.

About the sizes... currently using a Z3 Compact because of small hands and single handed usage. So I understand the concerns.
But for a qwerty I am willing to go bigger instead of a newer Compact Xperia.

But keep in mind that screen to body ratio also counts, and the mentioned iPhone 6 has a horrible screen to body ratio.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I had no problem asking Chen about Sailfish. Chen said he would talk with the engineers.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Yes that's often the case, but not always. Casablanca for example was filmed in 1,33:1. And of course all the old TV-productions, like inspector Morse.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Please read my reply posted further in the thread.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Pardon my ignorance and/or naivety, but would you care to explain what your objections actually... you know... like... ARE?

Are you saying that it is ridiculous to expect a fancy technology like AMOLED in 2019 when everything is made as a cheap rubbish meant to be thrown away after 6 months? And that expecting quality is akin to "living in a cave"? Is that it? I seriously cannot come up with any other interpretation, however hard I try.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

The real sunlight readable smartphones are those with an additional e-ink display like yotaphone2 and 3 which by the way, can be routed. The battery saving on e-ink displays is measured in weeks.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

E-inks are great. I would pay extra for an option to have an e-ink only. No LCD, no OLED, just e-ink. (Or two: one as the screen and one under a transparent keyboard dome sheet for an easily reconfigurable keyboard.)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I think those are only available in tha Russian Federation, right?
So pray tell me how I can get one routed to me?

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I've bought one YotaPhone 2 from GearBest for 120 USD 2 years ago. Now 2 and 3 are availble in Aliexpress at least, but for more money.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Though he wasn't very polite, I understood fully what he was saying (I think...).

He was commenting on the fact that the conversation as a whole was taking issue with the modern components that Chen has chosen to use. Everyone was seemingly asking for "outdated" hardware instead of the "newest and best". So, from his point of view, the desire for "outdated" hardware could only be the direct result of those people living in a cave without the ability for discover newer and "superior" technology.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

That's what I thought he meant. But how is OLED an "outdated" technology? It's not like there is anything better on the market today, is it? (Short of e-ink, that is, but those are slow and not good for video or gaming, applications I could happily live without.)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

No, I think his outburst was in support of AMOLED. It was in response to others complaining about it.

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Yeah, exactly this.
I should have use quote, but I was so frustrated that I just bursted.


Here are a few examples:

I mean, come on... (!!!) What kind of question is this!? N900 is a phone from 2009...! Probably any recent phone out there has a better screen than the N900.
AMOLED is superior to any other (colored) display out there as of writing this. Hell, even Apple finally went using AMOLED screens.


Thank you!


Again, The AMOLED's are superior.


Get out of the cave and look around you!? :confused:


Fanboy much? Take off the horse glasses, see and accept the truth!


First of all, first you say that you don't care much about screen technology, after that, you sau that you miss precise input possibility of the resistive screen. Contradict much!?
Have you EVER used the Note series of Samsung which has CAPACITIVE SCREEN with PRECISE SCREEN INPUT!?


Ok, use any dumbphone out there, it's the best for you. I don't know which movies you watch, but NO movie is recorded at 4:3 or 3:2 nowadays... Wtf?!


Ok, then sit in the cave and use your dumbphone with ancient technology.

Limited???!!! LIMITED???!
NEW technology is LIMITED? I don't know if you live in a parallel universe, but here on earth new is indeed most of the times better.

There you go again with "OLD" stuff. Just please stay in the past ok?... Other people out there know that are better stuff in the world.

I really hope you're trolling, otherwise: WTF?! :confused:

Thank you!!

Advice: Use dumbphone.

Yeah, sorry. I really am very frustrated about old people here who are afraid of using new technology, and praising old sh*t as if they are worshiping or something.
This is one of the biggest reasons why there is still no true successor out there for the N900.


For Chen:
Thank you VERY MUCH for making this awesome device that is truly still high end-ish at the time of writing this.
I really love the potention that you have put into this new upcoming device.

For people that wants to stay in their cave:
Get out of the cave, there is MORE space out there in the world than just 1 square feet! I Otherwise: You guys do NOT deserve this true N900 successor.

For all the others:
Hop on board! It's almost time to switch from your current phone :)

/mic drop

/rant

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Hop on what? What kind of board are the so called device built upon?

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Dave, shut up will ya.
At least until the phone has been released ;)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Very rude to question my opinion of a perfect size of a phone. I hold that iPhone 4S is perferct because it fits to pockect easily and has absolutely sufficient screen size for a device I*m willing to carry with. Cause what then would be a perfect screen size and why? It is dependent of to what you use it and what you like. So WTF to my opinion was a statement not in right place.

Or maybe it is just the phone size. There is a bit space left so that the screen could still fit in the frame and that be ok of course, but I am no fan of carrying big and heavy things in my pocket and if you need a bag to carry it... Do not call it a mobile phone anymore. It becomes portable device being able to make phone calls. I would definately like a handheld with keyboard, bigger good screen and fast as roadrunner, but not needing such as a phone and liking to use a smaller phone.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

I'm so sad to see @HtheB going off on a tangent now :(
A moderator should know how to keep cool...

And for the record, [newer != better]

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

May I suggest a poll. Not related to Chen’s work but as a general assumption of our collective awareness of the best screen size which also can be compared some older once to evaluate the sweet spot movement over time.

https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.ph...ht=Screen+size

https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.ph...ht=Screen+size

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Let's not get the tension too high.

I'm fully aware of there being a demand of smaller screen devices, never denied it. Let's put the argument of which one is better aside, just for reality... in order to create a successful project commercially, doing a smaller screen is much much harder than, I say the mainstream size.

As a small company, on some of the parts we are relying on some standard components, not being the same as others but within a certain range of "tweak". For example, for a screen around 5.5", let's say from 5.0" to 6.0", there are plenty of suppliers to choose from, and we can modify the panel slightly to fit the sensors, we can choose the best TP, even with flex edge AMOLED despite being very expensive and hard to get.

On the other hand, if we do this device in 4" or 4.3", as many of you loved, it will be much much more difficult and risky to make it successful. First of all the modern phone has more components inside than 3G phones 10 years ago. More antennas, more sensors, even more cameras. Fitting everything in a small body plus a keyboard will make the device significantly chunkier (In modern standard, I know most people here probably won't care :) ) But this is not the biggest issue. The biggest problem is there is no good suppliers, all the 4" screens you can order or tweak nowadays are very poor TFT and FWVGA at its most. I know most of you probably won't care again compared with N900, but we won't have a chance to be successful if we use such poor quality screen. On the other hand, yes we can customise a new display from scratch, (my wishlist is AMOLED bezel-less and maybe 4.5 inch?) But this will involve a HUGE (I mean HUGE) front investment to make a new display product, and there will be risk of having problem here and there, and cause delays. Moreover, we need a number of shipment to supply this screen production. In general a few hundreds of thousands should be adequate, but how much units we can sell with it? It will be hard to even support this screen production, if there is no one else is using it. Unless we are Samsung or old Nokia, that can sell enough units to support production.

Making a slider phone, especially a slider phone and trying to catch up with a decent specs, quality, camera is very very costly. We have limited resources and it would be wiser we don't spend our resources creating a new screen, but on slider, camera, build quality etc.

I personally have used N810 N900 Jolla N950... I fully understand your feeling on a smaller device. I don't want to raise the argument, but at least it would be worth trying the nowadays mainstream screen size and ratio. Due to the removal of bezels it's not being as big as it sounds, but it does give a lot benefit - I can do so many more things on it than N900. Imaging running some decent part of Maemo on a 5.5" screen, it might not be the best for all (in fact there is nothing that everyone being happy with) but I would strongly advice at least give it a try.

That doesn't mean the dead of smaller screen sliders. We need to do one step at a time. So if this project is proven successful, and we have a slightly bigger scale and better resources, there is certainly a chance of having a 4" slider. But we need to get THIS product being correct first.

Last but not least, if you are disappointed about the size of the screen, and don't want to try the mainstream size, there is nothing wrong. But please regard this as the first step we need to take in order to achieve the product you want. ;)

(And please let's keep calm)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

So? Where I'm going ? And who is the other one... ;)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

yeah sorry about that... I might be a moderator, but I'm also still a human :o

That's why I said "most of the times better" and not "always better" :p

Thanks for the nice explanation!
Good luck on your journey! <3

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

the device isn't out yet and you are already convinced that it is a true successor of the beast.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Dear HtheB,
I think you are willingly misreading and misinterpreting and you are willingly overseeing posts which don't fit in your universe!

I have never written that I want a resistive screen like it was in the N900. I have just written that I want a stylus. The way it is reached is of no matter for me. But I don't understand why there are so few phones around with this possibility. Yes Samsung's Note series do. But as already written my pockets are to small and I can't us it with with just one hand.
And just to be sure, that you don't say it is contradicting using a stylus and using a phone with just one hand: There are situations where you just have one hand free, and situations where you want to make a sketch of something. So the perfect device is ALWAYS just a compromise.
By the way the spen isn't really superior over the N900 stylus: it needs power.

Do I want to have a bigger screen? Yes. best would be something like 27" but unfortunately that is not very mobile anymore.

Coming to a further point: I have already proven, that THERE ARE Movies existing in 4:3 it was in the past a common cinema format. And I have already written, that the very famous movie casablanca was in this aspect ratio (1,33:1 is 4:3 in the cinema world)

But to be honest as a cineast for me personally movies on a phone are anyway ridiculous. I have never seen one on a phone, and I probably never will. In Germany we would call this "Mäusekino" (mouse cinema), and is no joy.

For me pictures are from relevance and here is the most common aspect ration still 3:2 and the 4:3 and 16:9.
2:1 is nonexistent.

But as I already written the screen technology isn't really important for me. It's still a phone and no professional screen I have to work with. So that's not a deal breaker for me. But the over all size is. So i will have to wait and see if I can live with the size of the Fx or not.

By the way, You say AMOLED is superior. Please tell me in what regards?!
I'm a photographer and working with calibrated screens. In my opinion AMOLEDS are a nightmare: The colours are horribly oversaturated and have nothing to do with real colours. Well I now they have also two advantages: One is, having a proper black point. The other is, they need less power when there is dark content, but unfortunately that changes when you have bright content. So in what points are they furthermore superior???? You're just claiming something and that's it? WOW, I'M IMPRESSED!

In your world there seem to exist only black and white, true and false and you of course, you are always right.
Poor boy!!!

And finally to go on with my rant:
You are advising @pichlo (and hereby also others) to use a dumbphone (and that wasn't the only offense). Well to be honest offending people isn't what I would expect from a moderator of a forum. You know, with great power comes great responsibility.

Edit: huh there was some conversation while I've written this post :D

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Enough talking Chen. I said the same here a couple weeks ago just to save your precious time so that you could use it to hand write a love note for me and put in the box of my ReadyFx to ship the next day. But my damn mailbox is empty, don't you realize that you broke my heart? :o

(Just kidding. Great post to clarify priorities. As I said several times, you convincingly demonstrated that this is the right strategy, and this comes from someone who, in an ideal world with unlimited budget, would prefer a smaller but chunkier form factor. I'm still eagerly waiting for the ReadyFx, just hoping that alternative OS will be ported soon after its release.)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Unknown location!
You and me while HtheB cleaning the floor so your question should be directed in the general direction of him.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

While reading all this, I am astounded to see how eagerly some defend exactly the points @HtheB correctly criticised (though in an exaggerated manner).

I just pick this post as an nice example (there are others by others):
Do you realise, that others might read your posts the same way?
Additionally they show a lack of economic and technical understanding why things are done today, the way they are done.

For example:
Obviously.
The reason is: Because they do not have a resistive screen!
Details (pointing precision etc.) and technical background (what materials do interact with an capacitive touchscreen) can be easily found in the WWW, e.g. on Wikipedia.

So you "have proven" (not really, but thats another point) that your point is irrelevant. ;)
Seriously: Wish for and "prove"/"disprove" (which is all just an expression of your opinion) what you like, but accept the technical and economical realities @chen depicted (and in general).

Do you realise, that this s just a matter of color calibration and deliberately done by the phone manufactures (not the AMOLED display manufacturers), what you call a "not really important nightmare"?

If you take this statement as a mantra for a meditation, it may provide great insights by self-reflection.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

... and I thought because they have no digitizer. What a technical idiot I am... :rolleyes:

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Hep

Hold Your Horses!

Let's just wait a little longer... Chen will come and tell us more about that new precious...

It is almost Christmas time... So peace and wait for your presents... ;)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Chen is bizzy cheering @ Fulham. So it’s up to Santa to deliver this year.

1. What do you wish for this year?
2. Have you been noughty or nice?

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Do you call that a constructive response?

FWIW, I was dead serious. For the vast majority of applications, an e-ink is entirely adequate. With the very few exceptions (such as video or games), all that a mobile phone - or indeed any computing device - displays is a static screen with no fast changing areas. On a battery powered portable device, the power saving and sunlight readability of an e-ink would vastly outweigh anything else.

I do realize that some people may like watching videos on a mobile phone and for them it might not be the best choice which is why I said I would pay extra for the option.

But the entire discussion is purely academic anyway since Chen lost my custom the moment he said he was going for a large screen and refused to budge. There is absolutely no way I am buying anything above 5". I want a portable device. One that fits comfortably in the hand and pocket. Not one that I need to carry in a backpack. I already have a few of those.

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone
 

Off topic - I decided to weigh-in when I constantly see it mentioned - as from my experience of real use, your comment will cause mis-lead of some understanding of e-ink screen.

I assume your "vast majority of application" are the applications built for capacitive touch screens, not for keyboard quipped devices that mainly using keyboard to input, like traditional PC, Symbian non touch phones etc.?

If you mean the modern touch screen apps, the answer is close to impossible. For the current e-ink touch screen, the frame rate and responsive time is much much slower than any of the touch screens, far behind. It will be difficult even to perform basic functions, like scroll, zoom picture etc. Not saying it's impossible, but it won't give the same user experience as you expect as a touch screen.

This is the main reason e-ink as a secondary screen, or even as a primary screen, does not give a great user experience on mobile phones. Because customers "expect" the same experience as touch screen, or thought they are the same, but in fact they are not.

As far as I know the industry have not solved this problem yet. I don't want to go to far but I am happy to discuss if interested. However the main reason I decided to write this reply is that you seemed not used this before, your statement is based on IMAGINATION.

And I really think those are the reasons some people will get frustrated.

Like you mentioned anything above 5" you regard as "big" and could not put in pocket. I am not sure how you define your 5" screen, will it be a 18:9 (in fact that will probably be the size of 4.5" in your experience), a 16:9, or a 4:3? Will it be bezel-less 18:9, 16:9 or 4:3? They can vast a lot on actual size. And clearly you don't seem to really giving a clear definition, because if there is a 5" with 18:9 screen I don't think it won't fit in your pocket. I remember you are still using the Jolla 1, a 5" 18:9 will very very likely being physically smaller.

I want to make it clear that I am not asking you to back up our project nor buy the product, but wanted to state again that you need to try it before conducting any conclusion - statement like 5" being too big, or AMOLED being over saturated are the same as "Chinese (or insert a nation) food is awful" because they do have different variation.

And remember, even the definition of "pocket" can vary because I have no issues fitting a 18:9 6" product in any of my trousers, and it seem to be the case for our team members. It might be a little bit special on yours? ;)

Re: Are you Ready? Fx HW Keyboard Phone