Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

What do most people do with their tablet? Browse, Email, Play Games, Remote Login, Podcasts, Videos and Music?

Isn't that what these devices do, in one form or another? iPhone stays connected, iPod hops on Wifi. N810 Wifi/Tether and Nxx0 WiMax stays connected.

They are fighting for the same dollars, with the SDK now released. Easy distribution is definitely the way to go with mobile devices. As long as Apple actually moves with the market this time, I think they have a winner on their hands.

Its just two different means to the same end. One is a mess, and one is with polish and focus.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Meh. I'll get an iPhone or iTouch when it has a physical keyboard. No sooner.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Soooo that would be never....

;-)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Hehe :) The N810 is a sweet design. Once they stuff new hardware in it, I imagine I will have a better opinion of it. The tearing and craziness in the current models just drives me batty. So much potential...

They can improve the keyboard a little, give us better media playback (read: Arm Cortex) and it will be a real contender.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

that and all the drivers that one might want...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I have no mac hardware to install the iphone SDK on, so its of no use to me.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

You're right.
Cocoa stems from NeXT directly and Carbon was just used to help migration from OS 9 to OS X.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

But I still don't think you can fairly compare Maemo team agains the iPhone team based on how many years they worked on their products.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Well the thread creator did want to compare the two devices.
Anyway you're right, two totally different devices that do not compete, in my opinion, at all.
The iPhone is a phone, the IT is not.
The iPod touch is a media player, the IT is not.
This should be enough.

The iPhone is for Mac users, the IT is for the rest of us.

I am both a Mac user and non-Mac user.

So, now, I don't know which one I should love :)

EDIT: oh, texrat already prized you :)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Actually, the OP didn't mention the tablets at all in the first post :) I focused on the SDK for many posts but I got baited into defending the iPhone again!

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I must disagree. Perhaps at the beginning this was the case but Apple Inc. has made it clear that it intends for the iPod Touch to be an "Internet tablet." Think of it as an IT for the rest of us who don't want to fiddle with the OS and install what the Tao considers dumb "useless" apps.

I think it would be a huge mistake to not think of it as competition especially since, as pointed out earlier, Apple is stating that it intends for it to be competition. Currently the Touch's screen is too small. I saw one and that bothered me about it, but it is the size of my current iPhone knock off and I really can't complain to much about it (screen size, the OS is a whole other subject).
Currently the biggest problem with it is:
No Bluetooth (iPhone has that)
NO GPS (Which could be overcome with GPS).
Limited CODEC support (Probably the biggest reason next to lack of Maemomapper that I haven't touched the Touch).

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Grr... Apple is using the "internet in your pocket" slogan. That's Nokia's baby!

I still don't see Apple's stuff as a direct competition because, as has been mentioned, they don't have the same level of codec support as a reasonably open platform like Maemo can give us. (+ More since I don't have to use Maemo, if I feel insane some day). When I was choosing between N800 and iPod (still waiting for the former to arrive), I realized I had plans to use either device for lots of audio / the occasional video. People can say all they want about the iPod being a more streamlined interface, but I don't buy that claim until I can literally drag and drop an audio or video file from my computer to my iPod and expect it to work. With Maemo, that looks reasonably possible, with the major limitation being decompression and resizing. As streamlined as my desktop PC which I use everyday; no need to divide the two into different markets, unless you're a company like Apple which has a true reason to create a distinct split in the available solutions. (That is, to sell double the devices and double the software).

Also, as sondjata mentioned, the screens on their current gadgets are very small. Great screens - particularly the seamless design, which would be perfect for an NIT - but I for one could not use them comfortably. I think they are pushing the multitouch angle a bit too hard, since most of the stuff one can do comfortably on that small of a screen can be emulated in software with a resistive touch screen. That is, pinching stuff... and pulling stuff. Rotating is about the only truly significantly fancy gesture, and that is replacing a total of two small context-sensitive buttons. Most of their "advanced multitouch gestures" are really just done with single contacts, such as kinetic scrolling or double tapping. Granted, they have it working really smoothly, but that is nothing which can't be done here.
What is unique about their screen is not the multitouch part, but the high responsiveness and solid feel, as well as its being made of glass. While we kind of lack those three, I think it's worth considering that they are superficial and most of the iPhone's fancy interface features can be implemented here using a little bit of imagination. (Modify GTK to do kinetic scrolling for scrolled windows, eliminating the scrollbars in all native applications, anyone?)

As for graphics capability: I just remembered (and I'm sure everyone else already knows) that the iPhone / iPod Touch have the same graphics chipset (PowerVR MBX) as the N800 tablets. Thus, I for have no concern about its graphics power being fancier than ours except that the iPhone has a smaller screen resolution (-> that funky bandwidth issue crops up around here, I believe?). Both are theoretically capable of OpenGL ES, unless my understanding of this stuff is about to be flipped on its head. (Likely).

Having said that, I for one am also delighted to see such a popular and visible platform using OpenGL, regardless of it being closed or not. The more developers learning that one, the less Windows and DirectX we see out there. The moment the majority of Windows games starts using OpenGL is the moment we have them running happily in Wine... and I think we can all agree that less Microsoft can only be a good thing. (Especially given Apple's heavy reliance on open source software; they are stuck with a certain level of obligation).

Back to the real world: I bet Nokia sees a particularly good reason to fix their graphics systems now.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Pickle:

I don't agree with you on the interface issue. I prefer to use a 'manager" app for moving video and audio. having a product that relies on drag and drop I am really annoyed when I have to use it. Navigate here, drag here, set up file structure here and there. No, the iTunes interface wins hands down. Would I like an option to that kind of stuff manually? Sure, and I've downloaded apps to do just that. They rarely get used.

Let me say this though, I find that a lot of "tech" people such as ourselves really really underestimate the "feel factor" of a product. High end products are priced the way they do because people like how it feels to interact with a product. Where we tech types may see a difficulty as a challenge, the average user says "this is dumb." Look at stick shift usage in the states. Stick shifts are dead because by and large people are too lazy to shift by hand. They prefer to have the ease of a smooth auto transmission that makes their life easier. The iPod touch is the 8 speed auto tranny and the Nokia is the Manual transaxle. People who like to "engage" the machinery and "master" the machine will purchase the appropriate product. Those who "just want it to work" will buy the appropriate product. Don't expect the tablets to get far so long as they are the Manual tranny's of the industry.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Funny... how I feel exactly the opposite: I want to drag and drop my media files to the N8x0 memory card instead of use any extra application to do so... That's the main reason I ditched the iPod nano I got as a gift, since I got so frustrated with the mandatory iTunes software to manage the media files.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Funny how you referred to this auto versus manual... Now I understand your point, since I personally do prefer manual transmission over automatic. The automatic is just plain boring to drive. So with your analogy iPods/iPhone is the "family minivan" and the Nokia tablets are the Ferrari... No wonder I like the Ferrari better... :D (I do not own Ferrari, but I did have Mustang GT with manual tranny few years back.)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Fair enough.

And after you get those media files on the sd card, what do you do to manage them? DO you make playlists there? Do you put them in particular folders?


Now how many of those steps did you do in iTunes before syncing with the NANO?

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Same here. I just hate the itunes syncing. 6 months back my friend wanted some songs from my laptop and i just connected mine to the ipod and to my utter bemusement he told me that i cant add some songs to the ipod since it only syncs with his laptop.

I still dont know how people are living with such ********!!

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

No fair; I use to drive a "family minivan". Dodge Caravan (original short-wheelbase) with 2.2l I4 engine (sad, I wish I had had the 2.5l turbo I4 that was available then) and 5-speed overdrive. If you never had one, you don't know what a family minivan handles like.
You're speaking of the "Mom's minivan"; the new ones, not available with any of: short wheelbase, stick-shift, or small-displacement turbocharged engines, only 3.x v6s. (Or even 4wd, though I didn't have, need, or want that.) And as a result they drive like honking boats.

But I do use that transmission analogy a good deal, regarding Linux/UNIX vs. Windows, Mac, and any other user-friendly slushbox.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I have organized those in my PC to directories based on artist/album. I just then copy the whole directory to SD card as I feel like doing. I do not create playlists, but just play by directory. I'm not a mass consumer of music or videos, but use those once in a while while in airplane etc. If I have internet connection I normally listen Shoutcast stream radio.

I agree with you that the iTunes approach may be more convenient for "general public", but do not make assumptions that everybody wants to work with files the way Mr. Jobs has decided. The requirement to use iTunes etc. to manage the files is very too restrictive. What if I want to exchange music files with my friends? I just can not plug in my iPod to his/her PC and copy files... In order this to work I need to install first the iTunes to his/her PC... and that is way too much hassle for just one time use. In case of the Nokia N8x0, just hook it with the PC and then start drag and dropping!

Syncing with Nano... I don't really know what it did, I asked it to copy my songs to the nano and it did as requested. After that point all my media shown in iTunes become disorganized the way iTunes thinks they should be organized... likely because most of my media files are old and do not support proper ID tags etc... so the iTunes was completely confused. Since that point I lost faith with that system and put the iPod back to its box and it has stayed in there since.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Well as far as i know even if your friend has itunes installed he cannot do that. That is what i learnt from my friend. Please correct me if am wrong. As far as i know the ipod syncs with only one computer at a time. So if you want some of your friends songs and think you can just install itunes and get them ... then forget it, coz the moment u attach the ipod to his computer and sync it will remove all your songs already in the ipod. So you either have your collection or your friend's collection.

I seriously cant understand how apple can get away with that??

I really hate apple and steve jobs. The products are good but it is the company i hate. They are way too restrictive and the frustratiing part is fanboys still make them be like that.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

That's even more restrictive than I could have imagined... You sure there is no way to "scan" the iPod for media and download files into PC, without syncing it first opposite way?

The reason I'm asking... let's assume this situation that your computer HD crashes, gets stolen, or similar that you lose your iTunes database. Then you might have thought that the iPod is nice backup device, but if you can not restore your files from there to PC... wouldn't that suck?

I'm almost positive there must be a way to sync the iTunes database based on the contents of the iPod... No? :confused:

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

There might be a way to put the iPod in HDD mode (well I dunno without rockboxing it).

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

They can intend all they like, but it just isn't there-- yet.

The tablets have their shortcomings, but so do the iPhones, if we're going to be completely objective.

The IT is not a phone.

The iPhone is not a true internet tablet.

yet.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I think you can restore your collection to the pc. But the point here is that you cannot get add a bunch of songs from your friends pc into your ipod collection. You either have your collection or his!!
I mean the moment you connect an ipod to the pc.... it says do you want to sync the ipod with the computer and if you agree to do so you will lose your collection on the ipod and get your friends only.

P.s I have only tried to add songs to my friends ipod only once and the moment i got the above message i really got pissed. So never tried. but i am sure there maybe a third party option?

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

ok, here is a correction then. I connect my iPod with 3 computers, and copy the tracks off them as an when I want - the computers have different tracks on them.
You are right in the sense that the iPod can only sync with one computer, but that itself is obvious, that unless you sync all those computers with each other you cant sync an iPod with them.
However, the bit I suspect you are missing is that you don't have to sync an iPod at all.

I just plug it in and drag files to it. I don't want mine to sync as I don't want the same tracks as any of the computers.


They don't, which is maybe why.

I don't understand why anyone would put effort into hating a company unless they had done anything to them specifically but I guess that is what free choice is for!

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Just to clear up some misinformation.

You can use many free utilities to copy your music on and off of the iPod. Floola is a particularly good one for windows, Senuti is a mac os x one, and Amarok on linux.

Some prefer drag and drop, some prefer syncing. The choices are definitely there... even iTunes lets you choose between "Manually Manage your iPod" or Syncing.

If your iPod is set to sync with your computer, it will ask upon plugging into someone elses computer to erase the contents and sync with the new library. But if you set it to Manually Manage, it will just show up in the iTunes source list (or 3rd party app) and will let you drag and drop whatever you want.

I myself am fond of the syncing, as my iTunes automatically downloads new podcasts and tv shows. Once I pop my iPhone in the dock it can remove shows I've watched to make room for the new stuff, its awesomely convenient.



And whats with "Hating Steve Jobs and Apple"... lol. Thats as absurd as me hating on Ari Jaaksi for not giving me PowerVR support and having no PIM suites. Come on, be reasonable.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I'm still confused as to why we are still discussing this. Like it has been said a bunch of times, "to each his own".

For most people who by a device, they want it to just work. They don't want it to be a part time job to get it to work the way they want it to. I know that some people get a kick out of that but most people don't (and that can be seen by just looking at sales numbers between the two types of devices).

The iTunes model is the best if a person wants a program that allows for easy organization of their media library with the added bonuses of a media store and syncing capabilities.

The restrictive nature of the devices are due to media rights and copyright laws that exist to protect artists and record labels. I'm sure if you were trying to make a living selling your music album, you wouldn't be happy with one person buying it and spreading it easily to all of their friends and family. (but that's a whole other discussion)

Bottom line, to get my n800 to do what I wanted it to do, it took at least 60 hours.

To get my ipod to do what I wanted to do, 2 minutes.

One of my friends was joking around with me and said, "If you want a new part time job, get an n800, if you want something that works so you can focus on other things, get an iphone."

Initially, I disagreed but upon reevaluation, there is some truth in his jest.


Also, Apple does something great that Nokia doesn't. When they sell you their product, they sell you their service as well. If I have any problems with my ipod, I can just make an appointment to receive tech support at my local Apple store. If my device is under warranty, they fix it, parts and labor covered. No shipping costs, no headaches. If the device is completely out of whack, they replace it on the spot. I mean come on, you can't argue that that is not amazing.

Also with the advent of their One to One training programs where customers can come in and get one on one training with creatives in store, Apple has really reinvented what it means to sell a product to a consumer.

Forget about AppleCare...the fact that you can buy a computer and extend the protection for three years and have a local spot to take it to is wild.

We can bash them all we want. They are definitely doing things the right way.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Actually, I am not thinking about the interface at all. My point about being able to simply drag and drop the media is regarding how a platform like Maemo makes those files completely transparent; I don't really have to concern myself with what kind of audio they are, since they will probably work. I can thus export them from any app under the sun (drag and drop being a really nice way to do it, for an inter-process communication fan like myself) and expect them to work.

With an iPod, on the other hand, you don't just happen to use a manager app; you are stuck with that manager app! Yes, you can still do things in mass storage mode, but getting files to play when transfering them like that is another story, since they have to be just the right format. Inter-process communication is all about interoperability, where applications can easily integrate with each other on the idea that they share a common ground for how they work: files. With drag and drop simply carrying URIs as information, we can end up with an incredibly rich and flexible environment built simply on that simple concept, where if somebody wants something somewhere else he need only drag it there. (Unfortunately, while DnD is one of the most powerful, easy to implement and useful integration technologies we have, it requires a very strict and demanding movement, giving it a bad name and making it unfavourable for a lot of people -- particularly those with lower mouse sensitivity. We need drag and drop without the drag!).

The success of that system assumes that they all use the same system to access the media (gstreamer, for example), so that things actually work reliably when received. Otherwise, dropped media would often not be picked up, which would not be very nice!
When it does work, the advantage to DnD is that the weird concepts of actual files and their formats are made very transparent to the "end users", allowing people to use specialized managers as opposed to generic file managers wherever they please. Integration's cousin is choice, which is being able to drop in any software solution wherever one pleases without losing functionality. I, for one, like using my file manager for programming projects but I prefer F-Spot for photos and I would rather not think about how F-Spot makes a mess of my file hierarchy. Since both systems implement drag and drop very predictably, I can do that and easily switch between the two with ease.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

i didn't read this whole thread, so someone may have mentioned this already. i read in another thread that the iphone/touch can run only on app at a time. is this true? i always have skype running in the background, as my main phone. i also switch between my email, rss reader, and browser.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

OK, time for my $0.02.

Actually, I don't have so much to say as I have a couple of questions to ask:

1) What languages does the SDK support? Last I checked, most Mac dev was done in Objective C, which is decidedly NOT C++. Are there really that many people willing to write Objective C, or are there some language options I missed?

2) Is it really true that the Touch can't multitask? Several people have told me that apps shut down when you switch away and start from scratch when you switch back. That sounds like Palm OS. (Speaking of which, why is everyone excited about Exchange syncing? Again, a Palm OS device can do that.)

3) Why are all these obviously clueless n00bs going ga-ga over an SDK? They aren't going to be writing apps! Isn't this just the Jobs RDF/Apple hype machine going into hyperdrive?

I'm somewhat impressed that Apple will allow devs to make apps available via iTunes. Other than that, I really just don't care. I've got a Mac, and I use iTunes, but my N800 can work with them or independently. I can do so many things on the tablet w/o my main computers. Why would I want to tie myself to my desktop again?

(The Nseries Tablets do need some interface work though.)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I read that too but I also read that it was a mis-statement. The poster opposing the idea mentioned how AIM was demo'd at the SDK event and that that application will run in the background. I'm not sure how that works. I do know that on an Iphone right now, you can have a playlist playing while you surf the web. Remains to be seen how it will work when multiple 3rd party apps are run.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Kaboom! Thus falleth the infallible reputation of the vaunted iPhone-- unless, of course, Apple exerts very tight control. :D

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I believe Apple will only be allowing background processes on a case by case basis. I guess its good and bad. Keeps it stable, but makes it a pain for the developer that wants to run something in the background.

Its likely that devs who just do it willy-nilly will get denied when they try to distribute via the AppStore.

For me, I don't mind this as its my phone, and I don't want the instability of my past Windows Mobile phones (after a few app installs). So I suppose that a benefit of having a separate device, you can have unstable apps.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I see you studiously avoided answering the questions I posed.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Yes, it is stated that the SDK apps will be allowed to run only one at the time (AIM is not a SDK app, but from Apple) and if switched from will be forcefully shut down (when you receive a call for instance). However Apple can choose if an application can be allowed to run as a background process. Also the apps will be allowed to make snapshots of their userspace to be restored later or something like that.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

100,000 SDK downloads in 6 days.
http://gizmodo.com/366784/100000-app...nloaded-so-far
Does that equate to 100,000 potential developers?

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Hmm. "yet" applies to IT or iPhone? :)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

could be, or it could just be curious eyes...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Pretty much :-)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

No, that equates to 100,000 people with Macs :)
Also this article leads us to a thought that maybe some of the people are getting the SDK for the new beta 2.0(1.2) firmware...