Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

...and I'm usually there, right in the middle of it.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

FYI, that's built in to itT already. If you use the search feature on the main page, it produces a better result, showing different ways to filter them.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

qolling, qolling, qolling...

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Theres one important factor you're not including: tone.

If you deal with customers it is very important to keep a nice tone. This makes a person feel comfortable. You can still tell the person he/she is wrong, and they're more willing to accept this if you assert it in the right way.

Instead of telling someone "you're wrong, idiot" you can say "perhaps if you look at it this and this way you notice". Or, "yes, we might have made a mistake there, but you should have done it right in the first place"; then working towards solving the problem. Another example: "UTFS!" or "Your question has been asked and answered already. Please, use the search".

The sarcasm smiley doesn't help either. The first and last line of a text are best remembered, and if the last part is a sarcasm smiley I guarantee you it doesn't arrive nice. Its often not used in combination with sarcasm, and often used to belittle the person directed at. Where is the respect? Is it that much work just to remember the other persons also have feelings? If you're not able to do that perhaps its better to not reply at all... :)

Google ;)

Seriously, I know people who'd fill in internettablettalk.com in Google search, and then click on the first hit. I can explain once or twice why they're being inefficient, but in the end it doesn't matter that much. Except for lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Besides that, if I search for something and Wikipedia has an entry and this entry is good enough why would I search further?

Here's a lecture by Fravia about searching and finding http://www.archive.org/details/Fravi...without_google his website is http://searchlores.org he's been into this subject for many years (10+) :)

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I don't think anyone here is paid customer support. Last time I checked, everyone that helps volunteers.

Now, I'm not excusing any outright nastiness. But I do understand some of the testiness that arises. Since these are volunteers we're talking about, and this is not Nokia customer service, the "customers" have at least half a stake in this, too. That means doing their part to avoid wasting the time of those stepping up to help. Surely it's easy to see that saves them time, too.

I'm sure someone will throw out the fact that the people asking many of the questions are unsophisticated in the ways of technical devices, and that's why they're here. I don't accept that on face value. I question anyone who purchases an internet tablet without doing a bit of homework first. Heck, that includes almost any purchase. I don't expect anyone to read a few specs and become instant experts, but on the other hand, they should learn enough to think long and hard before making the purchase. Many of those popping in here turned out to have made impulse purchases, and they take their frustration out on forum members trying to help. They also show no interest in wanting to learn but instead want to be spoonfed. That rubs some people the wrong way.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I found this useful post in the Newbie forum about how to use the search.

Our treshold level of nastiness differs, that is for sure.

Based on the observed behaviour here and there its clear to me some people here wouldn't function at a job involving customer support.

As you pointed out, where there is conflict, 2 or more parties are involved. The parties should reflect on how to solve the problem(s) but because we are the party who is perceived as the wise ones (because we serve information), we should also behave in a adolescent manner.

The fact that this isn't paid customer support is related to the issue. If you'd be paid for helping a user there'd be a different set of rules, and perhaps such system might actually work on ItS.

That doesn't mean you should express yourself in the way you want to though. For example, one could ignore a stupid question, or kindly explaining the person the mistake they made, or kindly pointing to a howto which explains how to use the search effectively (or a useful post like the one I pointed at above). If you're not able to do this please don't reply. You're not fit to be in contact with this particular person on this particular subject.

I understand your point of view and am able to relate to it.

Ironically, those are exactly the kind of people who'd pay for customer support :)

There is no reason we have to accept frustration from any party. We should all do our best to limit events involving frustration.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Don't extrapolate people's behavior online to possible job performance. That's a bit like observing somebody drunk at a party and deciding that they wouldn't be a very good employee. It just doesn't follow.

Things work a lot differently when one actually has a reason for babying people. Like, say, getting paid. :)

Hey, ho, welcome to the Ubuntu forums, where nobody gets an answer on anything! :rolleyes: Personally, I'd rather get a snarky remark that points me in a useful direction than no response at all.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I actually think it is probably safe to extrapolate a persons' behavior when drunk to their behaviour when sober. The person tends to be very much themselves, writ large, when drunk. I suspect you could say the same thing about a persons' online behaviour...

I'm doing my small part to make the Ubuntu forums a better place! :D

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Funny. Ever had a business meeting involving alcohol? Now, reflect: do you feel what was being said there holds no value whatsoever? Important decisions are made on alcohol.

As for comparing to drunk. I don't believe anyone here is behaving like a drunk mofo. So the compare itself is a bit extreme.

I'm glad you mentioned the example though. Drugs don't morph one personality into a different personality. They alter someones behaviour. The personality is just the same whereas the output is different therefore you perceive different behaviour. One who's good with psychoanalysis can see through such though.

Strange, I just went to Ubuntu's beginner forum and (not counting stickies) I noticed only 1 post out of 20 with 0 replies.

Besides that, quantity doesn't matter. Quality does.

Snarky remarks lower the signal-to-noise ratio. If a person with a question doesn't get a reply they might get impatient and commit to research themselves. They might even leave (which isn't necessarily bad given you don't want this kind of behaviour).

Now, lets see what happens of they get a reply. No matter what kind of reply, no matter the content of the reply, they'll use that as input. If it is a snarky reply it lowers the comfort level of the user because he/she feels insulted. They probably don't see how wrong they are themselves (lack of self reflection due to lack of knowledge about netiquette). The insulter got his candy though: he/she gets an ego boost from belittling someone. I don't believe this is the kind of behaviour we want on a open community.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

I've posted once once or twice to tablet scene. I really don't have unlimited time or energy and it's become apparent that it's better to remain silent than give an answer that is not "appropriate" for newbies.

After experiencing the questions and feedback I now believe that another forum was a bad idea. Either the subform of iTT so that technical question can be moved easily or some sort of "Yahoo Answers" style feedback system.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

And how did you determine this? I didn't provide my definition.

His analogy was appropriate in the context used.

As for the old canard that people are their true selves while drunk, it is not always an exaggeration of the self they present to others. It's anecdotal, but one example is my best friend, who is the nicest guy you'd ever meet when sober, but the meaniest, nastiest drunk I've ever encountered. What you see when he's drunk is not his altered or revealed true self, but rather the pain he's hidden away. So, please, let's dispense with overly-simple analyses of personality.

Anyway, you're struggling awfully hard to defend the boorish behavior of questioners while chastising the boorish behavior of answerers. How about a little intellectual honesty instead.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Therefore, what we see here is the hidden pain of intellectuals? ;)

The pain your friend has is part of himself (unsolved emotional wounds) which isn't dealt with. How do you know he's a healthy person? It surely doesn't sound healthy to me that he is carrying a lot of pain while only able to express this when drunk. It surely isn't normal to behave in such manner after drinking alcohol. Maybe he isn't a good example, an exception to the norm.

I don't see the relation between a forum and a drunk person. Are you drunk when you're on this forum? I don't know about your definition of drunk, but mine involves hardly or not being able to type on a keyboard. Perhaps a better analogy is having used a few glasses alcohol. However it appears to me the point is that this is one's leisure time playground where its justified to be mean to a person who asks for help no matter what their question is? Theres a saying: "The only bad question is the one not asked".

Because I can empathise with both groups because I've been in both situations and am in one of these situations almost daily, and given some answerers appear to have this elitist attitude that they feel its right to belittle someone who is asking for help, I find that pretty low and immature. It doesn't reflect the proclaimed wisdom they claim to have; which was my point in my previous post. Just like a parent should show the right example to his/her kids regulars are able to set the right example to newbies. Simple as kissing, I'd say.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

There are about three or four levels of my responses to people asking for help on this forum, and all are modified by my perception of the level of user I may be responding to and their post counts.

Even google here does not always provide a good result.

Particularly aggravating is the poster who writes a they didn't search, just please solve their problem. Perhaps worse is the poster who when told the information is on the forum responds to my post asking me to look it up for them.

Some questions bear repeating, such as what is the cheapest phone/data plan, because they change with time.

I just started using fbreader again and could not deduce how to turn a page at a time (small scroll, 24 lines). I could not find it in the wicki links either. After about 15 minutes of searching I found what I thought was a good summary.

http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/08.../#fbreadertips

and put it in the wicki.

I was looking for a good step by step guide for setting up rsync again. Almost all the threads here had snippets and a search for rsync on the wicki turned up zilch. I explained that and allnameswereout kindly posted me an excellent link.

Posters who do not seem interested enough to do some work should not expect us to do it for them.

Also there should be a link to Tablet Scene on more pages.

I think that the idea of Tablet Scene is worth exploring. I have been following this forum for almost two years and lately I was surprised by nasty answers more than by nasty questions. Hopefully the Tablet Scene will help out the newbies better even if those that are not aware of netiquette. The question is whether users will make the difference. Especially new ones.

Having said that most of the discours (and the same goes for posters) is interesting and civil. Sometimes a little to technical for me, but I do not pretend to be so intelligent.

Regards,
Antonio

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Regarding Wiki, I find it messy.

People read from top to bottom, and the first and the last are best remembered.

Now, I see for example on the main page a list called 'Internet' and then I see half of the entries about web browsing. On top of the Internet list is info about N770 (an EOL device from 2005). Why put that on top? I suggest to merge all useful data to the new wiki and let this wiki indeed die.

Once the new device and OS are out, or right before that, it is a good day to switch.

Before that precautions have to be taken.

On the Data Plans entry I thought of including a transparent map as picture allowing someone to click on the map instead of clicking on their country but I gave up on the idea. Anyway, this list is basically not related to any OS or device but the information is useful. Same abou the ebook list entry. Now, those can be moved to a new wiki with the old pointing to the new, correct? No implications except an extra click.

Or it might be better to tag data entries instead. E.g. "This data applies to OS2006, OS2007, OS2008, N770, N800." The list gets quite long though.

How are we going to manage these big piles of data? This is now a problem and requires infrastructure change. It won't become less of a problem by doing nothing; only worse. And without some kind of structure to change, it won't change in a good manner...

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

Ignore the itT wiki, it's not where new efforts are going.

http://wiki.maemo.org/

Re: Introducing Tablet Scene
 

And regarding "Introducing Tablet Scene" it seems this thread has been hiijacked!