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-   -   RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30717)

Kypeli 2009-08-13 08:28
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Off topic?

dantonic 2009-08-13 09:57
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epertinez (Post 311436)
... The problem is always the same. Maemo should run in two very diferent devices. One of them is a N97 sized tablet so you can carry it around with all your best software on it. If that has a phone it is ok for me (in fact I prefer that to have a phone). So RX-51 is a great step in that direction.
Then, there is another device, that can be as big as an small kindle, that connects wiressly to the phone and let you make all things you'll do with it but without taking it away from your pocket. That device don't need to have any phone capability (like N810) yet it should extensively use bluetooth to work with the phone so well you simply forget it is not a phone. A little bit like what happens with 3G Internet connection in N810. Once you paired N8X0 with a phone it actually has 3G internet built in. It becomes easy, fast, and transparent as if it had a SIM on it.
That device should have a much bigger screen, loud speakers, nice integrated keyboard, ... Much more portable than a Netbook and usable as a phone, as a PIM and as an Internet Tablet.
...
I would have no problem at all with a device the size of my N800 or even slightly bigger with great video and sound, and also sporting full Phone capabilities.
In fact I would have preferred a bigger screen.

I wouldn't even feel embarrassed placing such device against my ear when making a call. :P

Of course it could always be used hands-free.

The N800 with the paired 3G phone is a bit annoying imo. A fully integrated single device as described above would be ideal for me.

attila77 2009-08-13 13:35
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 311370)
You've pretty much nailed it--what I wanted is a new tablet.. not a cell phone. That's the basis for my disappointment. Here's hoping for a new TABLET to come out sooner than later.
Note that since the phone version addresses a broader market, on a dual phone/tablet setup it has to come first.

timsamoff 2009-08-13 14:14
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmalc (Post 311432)
I've got a contract with Orange UK at the moment, I needed it unlocking so that my missus could use it for a few days while her phone was going for repair. I rang Orange and they unlocked it for about 10GBP, it took about 5 minutes to do - so I don't really see a big issue with "locked" phones, unless it's locked in the iphone kind of way.
That's a great story, but I'll bet it's a rare one -- especially when talking about the "major" wireless carriers. A locked phone with a plan can cost pennies compared with the price of an unlocked phone. (Speaking of new phones here, since I bought an unlocked LG on eBay for $30.) If a major carrier "gives" someone a phone for $9.99 plus a plan, I highly doubt that they would be eager to unlock the phone for the customer when the locked version cost $300 w/out a plan and an unlocked version costs $700 on the free market.

Tim

Cadabena 2009-08-13 15:00
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmalc (Post 311432)
I've got a contract with Orange UK at the moment, I needed it unlocking so that my missus could use it for a few days while her phone was going for repair. I rang Orange and they unlocked it for about 10GBP, it took about 5 minutes to do - so I don't really see a big issue with "locked" phones, unless it's locked in the iphone kind of way.
Lucky you! when I wanted to unlock my Orange PAYG phone, they said I'd have to have £20 of credit on, and it would happen within three months! I ended up getting it unlocked (and, as a bonus, debranded) from one of the little, independent, ever-so-dodgy phone shops you see in every town. Then Orange gave me an awesome contract when I asked for my PUK code... damn you, sod's law! :p

Milhouse 2009-08-13 15:46
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 311483)
That's a great story, but I'll bet it's a rare one -- especially when talking about the "major" wireless carriers. A locked phone with a plan can cost pennies compared with the price of an unlocked phone. (Speaking of new phones here, since I bought an unlocked LG on eBay for $30.) If a major carrier "gives" someone a phone for $9.99 plus a plan, I highly doubt that they would be eager to unlock the phone for the customer when the locked version cost $300 w/out a plan and an unlocked version costs $700 on the free market.

Tim
Pretty standard practice in the UK, actually. During the lifetime of a contract you will be asked to pay a nominal fee (£10-£20 max) to unlock the contract phone, and the network operator will often unlock the phone at no charge once the contract is up (it's now your phone, your property, the operator has no legal right to restrict your usage of that phone any longer).

It's understandable that operators charge different prices for locked and unlocked phones, but once you have signed up for a 12 month+ contract it really makes little difference to the operator what you do with that phone as long as you continue paying the monthly charges. The nominal unlocking fee while in contract is probably intended to act as a disincentive to avoid widespread abuse of the unlocking system, but any operator who refuses to unlock a phone at any time during or after a contract is just taking the p.

Cadabena - not sure about the PAYG market, obviously the economics of PAYG vs. monthly contract are very different. £20 sounds about right, although 3 months is a little excessive (unless they wanted to accrue more income...)

Cruelkix 2009-08-13 15:56
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantonic (Post 311450)
The N800 with the paired 3G phone is a bit annoying imo. A fully integrated single device as described above would be ideal for me.
Again, I think this is a perfect example of what the General said. Everyone has different needs. For example:

I have a work phone with no data plan. I dont need or want to carry around another phone, HOWEVER, I do want to carry around a tablet that DOES have 3G for DATA only. Yeah, not eveyone is in that boat.

As far as I'm concerned, put the 3G radio in but dont force people into a plan for it (@danramos, it really doesnt cost that much extra , and if you ever sell the thing the person buying it will PROBABLY want it, so you will at least get a percentage of it back) . Allow a plan for Phone+Data, Data only, or no plan at all. I think we then cover all the bases, assuming it still has the same capabilities for bluetooth pairing that it previously had (which it will at somepoint because someone in this forum will make it happen if it doesnt.)

This model works for both the RX-51 and RX-71.

Nokia offers phones that are not tied to a carrier. Always has (Or at least the interent has, Ebay). So if you are willing to drop the money you can get it that way.

I dont see a flaw in this but I'm sure someone does! Have at me!

SD69 2009-08-13 16:36
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 311483)
That's a great story, but I'll bet it's a rare one -- especially when talking about the "major" wireless carriers. A locked phone with a plan can cost pennies compared with the price of an unlocked phone. (Speaking of new phones here, since I bought an unlocked LG on eBay for $30.) If a major carrier "gives" someone a phone for $9.99 plus a plan, I highly doubt that they would be eager to unlock the phone for the customer when the locked version cost $300 w/out a plan and an unlocked version costs $700 on the free market.

Tim
It's not that unusual, most people just don't know about it. I've done it with Cingular and with T-Mobile in the past, just had to wait several months after getting the subsidized phone. Don't forget that even if the subsidized phone is unlocked and you can use it on another network, you still have that 2 year contract with a hefty ETF.

GeraldKo 2009-08-13 17:40
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantonic (Post 311450)
I would have no problem at all with a device the size of my N800 or even slightly bigger with great video and sound, and also sporting full Phone capabilities.
In fact I would have preferred a bigger screen.

I wouldn't even feel embarrassed placing such device against my ear when making a call. :P

Of course it could always be used hands-free.

The N800 with the paired 3G phone is a bit annoying imo. A fully integrated single device as described above would be ideal for me.
If (and only if) it could work with a pay-as-you-go plan for phone and data, it would be my ideal, too.

qole 2009-08-13 17:47
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 311386)
Not necessarily, but carriers will lock you into a phone (i.e., US carriers typically don't resell unlocked phones, which means if you have an AT&T SIM card, it won't work in a Nokia phone from T-Mobile).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 311438)
SIM locks are only half the story. Subsidised handsets also tend to have useful features crippled (UK example, or google for a seemingly infinite number of stories about crippled bluetooth in the US) if they don't quite match the operators' revenue models.
I'll be very interested to see if the carriers will be able to pull any of those stunts with Maemo phones, especially the useful-features-crippling.

I guess the carrier could butcher the system and then use a special SIM card that checks that you're running the butchered OS (and refusing to work unless you are), otherwise it would be as simple as downloading new firmware from Nokia and flashing your device...

But it seems to me that in an open source OS, even a trick like that will be easy to work around. The 1337 hackers here and elsewhere will quickly identify the carriers' daemon and provide a how-to for getting unlocked devices working with that carriers' SIM cards...

(If the device is a phone) This is going to be an interesting new world, I must say...

GeneralAntilles 2009-08-13 17:48
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 311529)
I'll be very interested to see if the carriers will be able to pull any of those stunts with Maemo phones, especially the useful-features-crippling.
The technical issues involved are interesting, but I really can't see Nokia allowing them to fool around with things like that.

timsamoff 2009-08-13 18:25
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 311529)
I guess the carrier could butcher the system and then use a special SIM card that checks that you're running the butchered OS (and refusing to work unless you are)...
Funny. I would really admire a company you had the resources/time to do this. It would suck for end-users (until the hacks appeared), but for a company to invest in learning/altering Linux like that, well... It would be pretty amazing.

Tim

alex_mayorga 2009-08-13 19:21
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse (Post 311499)
Pretty standard practice in the UK, actually. During the lifetime of a contract you will be asked to pay a nominal fee (£10-£20 max) to unlock the contract phone, and the network operator will often unlock the phone at no charge once the contract is up (it's now your phone, your property, the operator has no legal right to restrict your usage of that phone any longer).
In Mexico it's pretty much impossible to get an unlock code from a carrier. At least I've never been successful when tried. :(

phreighnq 2009-08-13 20:00
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
What I see as being more of a problem is if the radio for 3G only supports the frequencies of T-Mobile's network and not AT&T's then it wont really matter if it can be unlocked because you still won't be able to use the 3G connection with AT&T. Maybe I am not understanding how the radios are designed but if that hardware doesn't work with your provider's network unlocking is irrelevant.

I have an N810 that I have with me almost all the time. I don't mind having a separate phone but can understand why some people might. I think a tablet/phone combination is a good idea to have but would prefer a pure tablet with the same or slightly larger screen as my N810.

eiffel 2009-08-13 20:15
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadabena (Post 311491)
Lucky you! when I wanted to unlock my Orange PAYG phone, they said I'd have to have £20 of credit on, and it would happen within three months!
Orange also asked me for £20 to unlock a PAYG phone. They also said I would have to wait three months, even though I'd had the phone with them for two years (because I hadn't actually registered my details with Orange). So, like you, I got mine unlocked at a dodgy (but legal) back-street shop for £12.50.

Regards,
Roger

danramos 2009-08-13 20:32
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsamoff (Post 311533)
Funny. I would really admire a company you had the resources/time to do this. It would suck for end-users (until the hacks appeared), but for a company to invest in learning/altering Linux like that, well... It would be pretty amazing.

Tim
Then you'll LOVE this:
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/08/...your-location/

Wasn't WebOS based on Linux, as I recall? Also.. Isn't the "phone stack" in Maemo 5 supposed to be called 'ofono'? Is that phone stack opened up as open-source? I'll bet it's nooooot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tso (Post 311434)
and thats why i "love" the usa == world that seems to be the norm in this forum...

still, i would love to see a phone-less device myself, as i have a perfectly fine phone already.
My sentiment exactly.

sjgadsby 2009-08-13 20:38
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 311580)
...'ofono'? Is that phone stack opened up as open-source? I'll bet it's nooooot!
http://git.kernel.org/?p=network/ofo...03e06d;hb=HEAD

Team C 2009-08-13 20:43
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
You can't have everything. If I want a Iphone but don't want to switch to AT&T then I have to pay a premium to get it unlocked and if I then want to use it on T-mobile I will be on edge only as the 3g bands are not compatible. This is how it works in the US market so I don't know what people are complaining about. As far as other countries I have no idea. Here the carriers want a exclusive phone to make people want to switch to them. You can pay an extra $50.00 to only have a one year contract with T-mobile and you can get another new phone at full discount in only 11 months. If you keep your phone in good shape you then can sell it on eBay for what you paid for it. That way you can always have the latest and greatest. This assumes the N900 turns out to be a popular phone. People are selling their used year old G1s for $200+ and $200 was the subsidized price. I am just happy that this phone looks like its really coming out. Bring it on!!

epertinez 2009-08-14 07:57
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantonic (Post 311450)
I would have no problem at all with a device the size of my N800 or even slightly bigger with great video and sound, and also sporting full Phone capabilities.
In fact I would have preferred a bigger screen.

I wouldn't even feel embarrassed placing such device against my ear when making a call. :P

Of course it could always be used hands-free.

The N800 with the paired 3G phone is a bit annoying imo. A fully integrated single device as described above would be ideal for me.
I think the annoyance is simply because you are not used to see the paradigm in that way.

If once connected you could put calls on the tablet, reply to calls, edit your S60/RX51 pim entries, use the phone multimedia files in Canola, etc, you'll simply would HAVE two phones in one. The Big one for winter time (the time you wear big pockets ;-) ) or at home, or when you walk around with a bag to put it on. The small for the rest of the day.

This is the paradigm of headsets for cars. Nobody asks for SIM-integrated phones in cars anymore. You pair your car-integrated headsets to your phone in your pocket.

I don't doubt you'll still preffer a bigger all in one machine. But I think most people could preffer the splitted paradigm once it is understood.

And this second paradigm makes nokia sell two devices a person!!

dantonic 2009-08-14 10:26
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epertinez (Post 311668)
I think the annoyance is simply because you are not used to see the paradigm in that way.
...
And this second paradigm makes nokia sell two devices a person!!
No,
The annoyance is because I don't want to have to mess with two devices... a phone which is basically just taking up space, and a tablet to do everything on.

It only makes sense to integrate the phone capability within the tablet itself.

I own an Ericsson TM506 currently, and it is always paired with my N800... even if I could do all my phone calls/sms on my N800, I would still be annoyed because I have to deal with a second device which would basically just be taking up space, has to be charged separately, and is doing nothing except to provide the functionality of the GSM radio.

My only gripe with the tablet coming out is that it seems to be a lot more phone like. I'll pass full judgment when I see it in action, but it appears to be more like an Iphone competitor rather than "The New Tablet with phone capabilities." The latter being what I would have rather seen, and would have used as my sole "bulky" cell phone without thinking twice about it!

I really hope that the RX-51 at least captures the spirit of the N800/N810, because if it captures the spirit of the Iphone instead, I might not buy it at all.

mrojas 2009-08-14 22:07
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Also from Engadget:HTC Files Patent for capacitive stylus with resistive accuracy

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/14/h...tive-accuracy/

anidel 2009-08-20 13:29
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 311580)
Then you'll LOVE this:
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/08/...your-location/

Wasn't WebOS based on Linux, as I recall? Also.. Isn't the "phone stack" in Maemo 5 supposed to be called 'ofono'? Is that phone stack opened up as open-source? I'll bet it's nooooot!



My sentiment exactly.
That statement on the Pre is not a Palm one, but a Google one as that VERY SAME statement is being asked on my Android phone as soon as I start it up for the first time.

anidel 2009-08-20 13:31
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wert613 (Post 310157)
^ I am also disturbed by the direction this device is headed, the attraction of the NIT's to me was the *lack* of gsm radio. I just wanted a wifi enabled PDA equivalent. The PDA is a dying species.
The GSM capabilities made the tablet smaller. No one would ever buy a 4" phone. May be Apple ones...

nilchak 2009-08-20 13:48
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Talking about unlocking, I have had my phone (GSM) unlocked by he carrier (T-Mobile) while under a contract here in the USA.

I travel abroad to my home country (india) and I just had to tell T-Mobile that I wanted my phone unlocked to use internationally. First they try to offer you International Roaming but of course who is such a fool ?

They pretty readily agreed to unlock it and they did so in a day.
As long as you can show a valid reason for unlocking, I think they will have to.

Also if the N900 supports tri band or quad band, then I think it will wok on any of the major carriers.
I am thing such a high-end phone should be a quad-band support phone.
Do we know anything about the bands it supports on the cellular radio ?

SD69 2009-08-20 13:55
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilchak (Post 313605)
Talking about unlocking, I have had my phone (GSM) unlocked by he carrier (T-Mobile) while under a contract here in the USA.

I travel abroad to my home country (india) and I just had to tell T-Mobile that I wanted my phone unlocked to use internationally. First they try to offer you International Roaming but of course who is such a fool ?

They pretty readily agreed to unlock it and they did so in a day.
As long as you can show a valid reason for unlocking, I think they will have to.

Also if the N900 supports tri band or quad band, then I think it will wok on any of the major carriers.
I am thing such a high-end phone should be a quad-band support phone.
Do we know anything about the bands it supports on the cellular radio ?
It will have quad-band EDGE. It's the 3G bands that we are unsure about.

nilchak 2009-08-20 15:22
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 313609)
It will have quad-band EDGE. It's the 3G bands that we are unsure about.
Aha, thanks for clarifying that - didn't think about the 3G part - true.

TenSpeed 2009-08-20 15:41
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
According to the FCC filing, the device will support 3G on 900/1700/2100. GSM/EDGE support covers 850/900/1800/1900.

Assuming, of course, that there aren't different versions for different markets...

dantonic 2009-08-20 21:03
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilchak (Post 313605)
Talking about unlocking, I have had my phone (GSM) unlocked by he carrier (T-Mobile) while under a contract here in the USA.

I travel abroad to my home country (india) and I just had to tell T-Mobile that I wanted my phone unlocked to use internationally. First they try to offer you International Roaming but of course who is such a fool ?

They pretty readily agreed to unlock it and they did so in a day.
As long as you can show a valid reason for unlocking, I think they will have to.

Also if the N900 supports tri band or quad band, then I think it will wok on any of the major carriers.
I am thing such a high-end phone should be a quad-band support phone.
Do we know anything about the bands it supports on the cellular radio ?
I've been a Tmobile customer for a while. In my past experience, Tmobile will unlock any phone free of charge after the first 3 or 6 months from purchase. Cant remember exactly but it's one of those.

@anidel
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 313600)
The GSM capabilities made the tablet smaller. No one would ever buy a 4" phone. May be Apple ones...
I'm not so sure about that. In my personal experience, I have lots of friends and family members who when they see my tablet they make comments like: "Wow is that phone?" then I explain what it is and show them it browsing the internet and other fun stuff... and all I get from people is comments about how they wish their phone had a bigger screen.

If I had to guess, for those to whom data capabilities are most important in a phone, a phone tablet with a 4" screen would be a dream come true.
But that's just a guess. :)

danramos 2009-08-20 21:38
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 313599)
That statement on the Pre is not a Palm one, but a Google one as that VERY SAME statement is being asked on my Android phone as soon as I start it up for the first time.
The problem is: On Android, you were asked; On the Pre, you are not asked.

Texrat 2009-08-21 00:57
Re: RX-51 Tablet picture released at Engadget
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwerneck (Post 311085)
What is this strange and bad looking font that is being used in Fremantle anyway? Where is the marvelous Nokia font? I am a big fan of the Nokia font, I love it that many applications use it in Maemo... The xterm, for example, uses it in the toolbox. What is this skinny thing they are trying to make us swallow??
I like that font. :p


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