Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I don't think it is a coincidence.

If competing with the crowd means starting to wear the 'right' clothes, listen to the 'right' music and hanging out with the popular 'winners', I sure prefer to stay at the geeky niche being myself.

The chess club is open for anyone to come in.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

So you want Maemo to cater to a niche set of users and be developed for by a niche set of developers ?

Go develop for the Zaurus then.

I don't understand what this niche refers to in the case of a phone.
As far as I can tell, its either mainstream or its dead. There's no niche in it. When WinMo was a small market - nobody called it niche. It was a laggard. Now its mainstream.
When Openmoko came out with the phone, nobody called it niche. It was a failure.

Yeah if it was a specialized equipment with a specialized usage then a niche would work. Its a smartphone for God's sake. What's niche about that ?

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I know some very smart/unhip people, and I know some sheep/very hip people. Technology wise, the thing they have the most in common is that they love their Apple products.

I wish I could, but I can't say that about any other technology company.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Why, what's mainstream about the 10% market share the iPhone has ? You people are starting to use the terms 'mainstream' and 'target audience' quite interchangeably...

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I agree with you - it may not be mainstream - but no phone is a niche in the market sense. Its either mainstream (in the sense of a big main player along with others) or behind.

And secondly in US Smartphone sales iPhone is 2nd to RIM - so its mainstream in US.

In global smartphone hardware market they are 3rd place. Whether that's mainstream or not is another debate.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

No, I don't want to restrict anything. I just want to be able to develop freely, without having to "jailbreak" and reverse-engineer stuff. For example, I wouldn't like Nokia to say that people hacking the device are criminals because they will help drug dealers and other criminals to make anonymous calls or whatever (Apple did this recently).

I don't care about how many users there are and how many applications will be available and if other people will be paying for it. I just want to be able to use my pariah software with no restrictions. I don't want to tell anybody what to do, and I don't want to be told what to do.

The chess club is open, but I don't care if the cheerleaders don't come in. I just want to play my chess (I don't even like chess that much, actually.)

As long as I can, for example, carelessly install Mer on it, and the price doesn't increase because of whatever software it comes with, I'll be buying NITs. If Nokia starts to create restrictions, I'll be angry, and will probably just continue to use it breaking these restrictions and wasting time with technological stunts that wouldn't be necessary if I could just use freely the equipment I bought.

Yeah, I might just jump from a cliff also.

I prefer the Nokia hardware. And the Maemo community as it is now is quite attractive to me.

I also invite you to go buy another device if you are not satisfied. Right now I am satisfied.

Me too!

The whole debate orbits this concept. But I think this can be just an illusion.

First, If Maemo and the NITs were so much endangered, would Nokia be releasing a new device right now? Is it still in a "let's put some money and see where this goes" phase?

And how many different devices does Nokia produce today? Are they all "mainstream"? I would love to hear the thoughts of Nokia people about that, if it's really "none or all", or if it is possible to go on selling multiple devices for the different 'niches'. Or better: build a device that is easy to fit for the needs of many different niches, which is the case here. The problem is that some niches require a flexibility that other niches dislike because it makes it easier to make illegal copies of proprietary software.

My question also.

I guess what people mean by 'niche' here is actually 'people who like dealing with Linux guts and also don't mind to have only few and beta-quality software available.' Some kind of electronic BDSM.

Will this 'niche' be unhappy if there are more users out there, and developers selling $.99 apps for this platform? Even if the apps are silly?? Not necessarily. Unless that means making the environment more restrictive. I wouldn't like that, and I guess the same goes for others in this 'niche'.

Myself, I mostly use my devices for im, e-mail, browse the talk.maemo.org page, listen to goth music, read RSS and download pr0n (lots of BDSM). No niche here. I also develop 'cutting edge' ( :cool: ) signal processing software, and I have a feeling the NITs are the products with the best cost-benefit ratio for all these needs of mine.

Let us play chess!! :D

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Thank you :-) In fact, what's "mainstream" about smartphones in general?

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Please encourage the developer of this "iFart" to port it to Maemo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n0052nWets

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

That is one amazing application. I found it very interesting and I would love to use it. “Please mr. developer, make a Maemo version of you software so we can use it! I promess to pay as much as you ask and not make illegal copies.”

That is all true. I liked it, I could buy it. What else can I do to help you? Stop reading the Kama Sutra with my device? Not sure I would go that far...

I would like to take the chance and make the converse question: How could iPhone developers attract you to their platform? What is holding you here? Is it just something simple as screen resolution? Are you going to give up from Nokia when Apple finally releases the 6 inches iPod?

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Ha ha ha ha ha... Yes, poor Apple... the platform is failing terribly... as is evidenced by the enormous amount of developer attention it is receiving. Nice logic...

No seriously, though, I agree - Nokia should take it nice and slow, with like a 20 year plan... announce a new tablet/Maemo device somewhere around mid-2010, release it in late 2011, and grow/manage/restrain the application catalogue to about 500 "quality" apps by 2015, shoot for 1000 by 2018. Then reassess the market in 2019....

I mean really, after all, we wouldn't want any fart apps on our tablets now would we?!

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Not unless it was a REALLY GOOD one, apparently. ;)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Apple didn't even have a phone 3 years ago. Now they are #3 globally, #2 in the US for smartphones...? Niche indeed...

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

So long as the sound files are Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike and in Ogg Vorbis format, it should be okay.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

We should all campaign for Nokia to release the source of osso-fart immediately! You know they must have written one :)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Point is, people who "poo poo" (pun intended?) Apple's app store by pretending all it is is fart apps are kind of missing the point. There are plenty of good apps in there; sure at first there was a largish collection of junk, and there still is; but as the app store evolves, we now have big companies putting serious effort into making apps and selling them, too...Navigon and Tom Tom are selling high priced navigation apps; there are plenty of well known gaming companies putting out PC-quality games. There are productivity apps, utilities, big news outlets putting out apps... I could go on but there really is no need. You get the point.

The interesting thing about the app store, and to a larger degree, those who denigrate the app store as being "too messy", or too full of fart apps... to me the app store is one of the most democratic, socially driven retail environments I have ever seen. Good apps bubble to the surface; they get word of mouth on blogs and in news reports. Bad apps - same thing. Reviews are right there for the taking. iPhone apps are talked about, shown off, and reported on every day all over the place. Yes some are farts and glow sticks. Most aren't.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

If Nokia's goal is to become a small player in the cell market - a niche player if you will-, shrink it's profits and lay off half of it's workforce, then your analogy-cum-business strategy is sound.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Yes, there are good apps, no doubt about it and no arguments about that. As a developer for the iPhone though, I have to say that the "good apps bubble to the surface" isn't always the case, which is why there's so much hate tossed at fart apps and other apps of similar use/value taking up so many of the top spots.

The one and only way you make money in the app store (as of this moment anyways) is to get and stay in "New and Noteworthy" on the US store for a week or so, it seems. If you aren't there, no one's going to ever even see your app. It might as well not even exist.

And my real problem is that I'm just not sure how to really fix that. (And no, saying "make better apps and more people will use it" isn't really true here.)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Ogg is only good to record farts. :p FLAC is the thing! :cool: If the Rover doesn't come all set up to play FLAC, and open up an EULA each time you play a WMA or MP3 file warning you about the dangers of using proprietary technology, I'll give up Nokia and buy a Meggy Jr RGB!! :mad:

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Dude, I give huge props to Apple for their masterful marketing and generally incredible product design. They know which consumer's buttons to press and in what specific order to do so.

But AppStore = democratic?? :D Get real..
The FCC wouldn't be making a fuss over it if it's 'democratic'. What the (current) AppStore has is just a popularity-based announcement system. I've read they're working hard to implement a better system to overcome the deluge of apps (+70K now???) with tags and such, we'll see what they can come up with.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

The apple app store is great. I have nothing against Nokia making a Maemo store where you can install stuff via the "iapt-get --payment-method=paypal ifart/sid" command. I just don't want what comes in the package: the system has to be "secure", and the company end up owning the device more than we do.

But I'm not sure is right to call democratic a market that has a private unquestionable owner who censors people and can go on saying who can enter and who can not, with no explanations. It's not just about the mature content issues (it seems this problem has ended). You all have seen the recent Google Voice scandal. Is that a democratic market?

The World of Warcraft Auction House, now that is a democratic market!... :D

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Wait, you just called Nokia a "small player in the cell phone market"?

Maybe this decades-old company is being managed only by dumb people, and they should hire you as the one CEO that will save the company from the Apple threat they are so much afraid of!!

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

About half ther apps I have on my phone I heard about in a newspaper/magazine article or on a blog somewhere. Word of mouth for good apps drives their popularity. And by good, I guess I mean - apps that people want, and that are useful in the context of how people use their phones.

I can also say with some amount of confidence that as I sit here perusing the categories in the app store, and looking at the top "paid" and top "free" of each category... most apps that show up are pretty decent overall; maybe some are "just" entertainment... but people like entertainment, too...

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Guys. Mainstream is not a synonym for the largest COMPANY but largest MARKET.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Can you actually read what I wrote, or are you just being argumentative? I said "if Nokia's GOAL IS TO BECOME a small player.."

Of course, AIG, GM and Chrysler are decades old companies, too... they must know what they are doing...

Ah whatever... have a great day, sir.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Jesus... I'm talking about the popularity of apps and you want to argue about Apple's approval policy... well I guess you got me there...

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I did understand, but I found it absurd anyway. I then distorted your words using classic rhetoric techniques to make you look silly and think a bit more about the subject. Sorry!

What is the "cell phone" market anyway? We're in the middle of a mess of media players, ebook readers, gps, cheap phones, expansive netbooks... You really think all of this will converge into the iPhone as the one product that people in general will want to buy?

I still carry my 1100 around. Best phone ever. You believe the iPhone will one day sell as many units? Not a chance. Maybe Apple will win more money selling the future iPhones then Nokia will selling their future 1100s, but still they will not turn into a "small player in the cell phone market".

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Jeeze thanks Socrates... classic rhetoric. More like classic obfuscation.

You must be a real joy at parties.

And while I'm sure Nokia is proud you are still using the 1100... I'm also sure they'd be happy to sell you a new phone as well... that's uh, how they continue to stay in business, in case you didn't know... by selling phones...Mr. Chess club...


Distort my words to make me look silly... indeed... what a jerk.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Yes! :rolleyes:

No... :( I never go out, all I have is this forum.

Indeed! Maybe they'll be victims of their own success in the near future, because the Rover will be so great nobody will want to buy the future tablets. :eek:

Hey, what are they discussing in the forums of all other smartphone platforms out there? How are symbyan fans going to bring more iphone developers to their platform? How is microsoft going to bring more iphone developers to WinMo? How is moblin going to attract more iphone developers? Android? And what plans does Apple have to maintain the current iPhone developers?

Are we going to see dozens of apple app store clones for each platform? And is there any chance a single one of them would manage to conquer the current iphone developers and userbase?

The iPhone war is over, and Apple won it with the iPhone! Nokia should look to what will be "the next iPhone". It's not about attracting iphone developers, but attracting developers to something in the future that we don't even know exactly how is going to be.

I bought my tablet because it does something my 1100 doesn't do. I will only buy a new Nokia product if it is something that neither my phone or tablet do. And if I want iPhone applications, I will go buy iPhone, and not whatever product Nokia did to try to attract iPhone developers. Cut the middle man.

(of course, if I break one of my products, or if I decide to have a hardware upgrade, I'll have to buy something new...)

And sorry for being a jerk! :o

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Alright you two, get a room.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

I just came back from a beer with frinds-of-a-friend. A guy there had an iPhone. Guess what was the application he wanted to show me the most? SCUMMVM!

We (me) also wanted to look at Wikipedia what was the area of Netherlands compared to Portugal. I couldn't see because there was no wifi there. He picked the phone up, but gave up. Either he was not nerd enough, found it too difficult to use, or wanted to save on the Internet consumption.

So, not impressed yet... ;)

(yeah, I know, he was probably just a n00b, but anyway...)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

@nwerneck: Well I think he should be the perfect user for iphone then. That non-too-techy person with the interest to tap into this sort of functionality with the money, but without the time, patience or skill to mess around with linux-y goodness.

I don't get what's so difficult about opening up wikipedia on iPhone's mobile safari though. Or even better with an app called Wiki Tap.

Sounds like he doesn't have a 3G\GPRS data plan or bad coverage from his provider... or you two were too trashed to read? :P

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Get aardict and a dump of wikipedia from http://aarddict.org/t/. All that's missing is a "Don't Panic!" sticker :-)

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

:D The opposite happened to me, since due to the 800x480 resolution the N8x0 is capable of playing CoMI in all its glory.

Re: How can we encourage iPhone developers to develop on Maemo?
 

Hopefully with the efforts to port Qt to iPhone, we'll see cross-platform development for iPhone, Maemo, Symbian, Linux etc