Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

EDIT: maybe just being friendlier?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I find some of your posts confusing. With the "my", "we", "our" used differently it seems, perhaps depending on your expected audience.

Your issues about the need for multiple log-ins are valid and ones I agree with. In fact I brought them up not long after I first joined maemo.org. All I wanted to do was report a bug and found I had to join bugzilla with yet another log-in. This forum wasn't a part of maemo.org at the time and I used it to vent I suppose.

When the forum did merge with maemo.org, I and others brought it up again as feed back to the powers that were coming to be. I used some of your same arguments about people not finding the site useful and not returning. A single sign on was proposed and a task initiated >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on
...and to see how this community handles these tasks, here is a meeting transcript... all most volunteers, all moving forward, all with a sense of purpose and conviction. >> http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/sso-m...009-05-27.html

You will also notice that my name is not among them :eek:
I cried the loudest but didn't bother to attend. :rolleyes:

I'm still coming back though because this is the place for accurate and timely Maemo information.

I also learned that some things are easier said then done but that if it is a task this community undertakes, it will get done... and, as many members pointed out to me in subsequent posts, if I don't like the schedule, I should feel free to get involved my own dang self. :)

Also: I can not speak for others but when I went to the site you are referring to here >> I didn't see any posts calling TMO "The .Org" or that sites big brother. Instead I saw posts like this...

...anyway. That's why the confusion. :confused:

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Erm, all moving forward with a sense of purpose and conviction, yes. All volunteers, not so much.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Post edited with the word "most" instead of all...

If this is incorrect let me know and I will remove the reference all together. :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I'm a writer and trained as a journalist now for 17 years, so I'm adept at recognizing intention and deciphering the spirit of most comments. I won't pretend yours were intended to be anything but degrading and nefarious. I'm mean, and I sometimes let my emotions get the better of me, but I'm far from stupid. I know exactly what you intended by saying "If it wasn't blatantly obvious that you're trying to draw people to your maemo site by pointing out how bad this one is." You are totally wrong, and I stand by what I say.

Your "gripe" is unwarranted. You made a false comment about me, based on nothing other than a personal assumption. If I'm wrong, tell me why you feel I'm pointing this out to make my site look good? Anyone that has spent any time in the Symbian, WinMo, or Android communities would tell you that I'm rarely self serving, and always being an advocate for others. I didn't blow your comment out of proportion. You told a lie about me, and it could negatively affect my site, readers, and forums. I take that seriously. To imply I'm bad mouthing any site to poach readers or attract them to an alternative is pretty low, and you'd be offended, too, were the shoe on the other foot. You've just continued the rudeness I'd experienced here in the past, even though I've personally apologized and left that behind, and out of the blue, so I lumped you in with that old group. Just check the sarcasm and rudeness at the door WITH ME, and keep it serious. It causes too much confusion, and its not always funny.

Trying to "spin" your own comments lets me know you didn't think I noticed you put an imagined motive to why I'm making inferences about this site. You can ask a million hypothetical questions,but no one here is stupid. Save the BS for the courtroom. I'm here to talk about making the site more user-friendly. You're a funny guy, but I'm here to make Maemo better, not be entertained as the butt of your not so funny joke. Let's keep it on topic.

Well you're still welcome there, regardless how you treat me. I'll treat you with respect regardless. And EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas. Including our friendliness and willingness to listen and help others. Ignore what I said, and ask yourself how you can help MountainX. I'm sure he has no motive but the right one, with no site to cloud the waters. Why not avoid talking about how smoothly YOUR experience is here, as you're obviously an insider, and focus on making it better for someone else? How can someone with login issues PM a Moderator he doesn't even know, and don't you need to be logged in for that?

I know the topic is supposed to be for technical solutions, but the attitude issues will have to be addressed sooner or later. I'm getting so sick of the childishness and crass behavior. This is OUR site, and everyone should be welcome, not just insiders. This will boil over again and again without some sort of intervention and governance.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

@ YoDude,
I don't just participate in the Maemo-related forums here and on my site, but various mobile sites. I'm regularly in conversation with most of the top tech bloggers on the web, and Maemo is the biggest topic amongst them all. So not everything I talk about is on the MF (not THAT MF, jokers...) forums. Not all parts of the MF forums are open to the public, either. We have private areas for beta testing, software design challenges, and the like, and the site administration has its own private area. So many posts won't ever be seen by those with less access. We are a laid back group, and close like family, and many of our forum threads are personal conversations where we speak our minds and talk about things going on in our lives, like most families do.

The "my, we and our" issue requires you to read them in context, and since I wasn't talking directly to you, you may become confused. That comment wasn't meant for you, so pay it little attention. But if you're so eager to see any reference to "The .Org", check this recent one out:
http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/mis...-i-told-you-so

But to clear things a bit, Maemo.org is MY community, just like the rest of the guys here, and I'm proud to be part of it. I am also part of the MF community, which is, by default, also part of the Maemo community as well. We are part of an alliance, not competitors, but cooperating groups that depend upon each other, just as we've done with SF and Symbian.org.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

One can only speak for themselves, and let each individual do so. In the case one is assuming a (self-proclaimed) ambassador role references are useful, and one should not feel insulted or surprised when someone takes the we with a grain of salt. Ie. the reason Maemo community council is a respected authority on t.m.o is because they are elected.

Hypothetic example: one can say diagonal mode is in high demand yet without some kind of statistic research such is unclear for both outsiders as well as developers (both Nokia and non-Nokia). Therefore, the quantity of arguments is of less value than the quality of arguments.

A way to work around such is by developing a barrier. You can ask for the interested party to put some effort into their feedback. Therefore, you make sure only those who care to get through that process are going to reply. I like such barrier. I don't like it when someone puts a half effort in their feedback. In a way, the lack of SSO is such a barrier. Same for Brainstorm.

Now, the quality of arguments is lacking in this discussion about SSO and is instead here:

I don't know the exact technical limitations of SSO but I know from experience SSO is complex to implement, and because authentication is involved needs a lot of sanity checks. Therefore, I notice and respect that Maemo community members who are into SSO put effort in solving the issue, and demand myself patience. Any kind of complaining here will not make the situation better.

Can we please put the drama and felonies (JOKE) in a seperate thread... :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

The same happens here on maemo.org. So how is a "gated community" userfriendly while a community where you can access *everything* even without having a login in need of more friendliness?

And please don't tell me "your family" doesn't have it quibbles at some times.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Chris, that was very convenient of you to take credit for portrait support after so many posts about it before you and which we later on found out it's already in the development roadmap anyway.

Community = More us, less me.
This is the main point of contention in all of arguments on this board that you've gotten yourself involved in, if I may say so.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

speaking of user friendliness of the site's application, I can't figure out how to unsubscribe from a thread. When I go to my subscriptions page, I do not have check boxes on the right of each thread, so I cannot select an individual thread to unsubscribe from.

EDIT: Oh, I see. I have to make a new post and then I can change my thread subscription when I submit a new post. That's something that could be changed to improve user friendliness. But it is obviously of minor importance.

P.S. The thread I want to unsubscribe from is this one. It doesn't feel very friendly to watch everyone berating each other.

This is a good time to plug one of my favorite books:
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life by Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell (Paperback - Dec 23, 2003)

In personal relationships, defense is the first act of war. Any time you catch yourself defending your statements or defending yourself against someone else's statements about you, recognize that your defensiveness is the beginning or continuation of hostilities.

Outside observers who read back and forth stuff like this don't usually care about the details of who is right or wrong. But they recognize that individuals who continue to argue are perpetuating something that could easily be dropped -- if not for the need to defend one's ego. (The word "ego" is not being used in the sense of egotistical. Rather it more closely means "concept of individual self".)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

@MountainX: Hmm yeah, it seems the default skin omits the checkbox somehow.

For the time being, you can unsubscribe (manually) by going to the thread, and using the 'unsubscribe' option from the 'thread tool' pull down menu just above the first post on the page.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

That's a known bug in the default Talk theme, and one that will be fixed soon, I hope. Until then, you'll need to switch to another theme temporarily to unsubscribe from threads, I'm sorry to say.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

JUST QUIT THE STUPID ARGUING
the last 2 weeks or so everyone seemed to be getting on better, i have even started to feel part of here now and feel excepted but the last couple days everyone seems to have gone crazy again with arguing and immature behavior
few examples
balloon boy thread
this one
Dev discount
did you device ship
these 4 threads really show us in a bad light,
ppl with disputes should sort it in private, making fun of maybe dead kids should be never allowed and sexual talk and profanity should not be allowed.
we need to act more professional as people will come here from all walks of life and our aim should be to help each other and others here for the first time, good first impressions are critical when wanting to get new people on board

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

A short document worth reading:

GNOME Code Of Conduct

Clarification can be asked via PM. Did you mean to offend me by saying [...]

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Wow, you never listed "psychic" in your long list of skills.

Oh ya, and you are wrong. You read what you want to.

Wow, isn't that what you just did to me in the previous quote? Nice.

LMFAO, everything you say is self-serving... You originated the call for portrait mode / ASR, right?

|||EDIT The funniest article ever |||

Sorry, that prospect doesn't bother me in the least.

What lie did I tell? That you are trying to gain traffic? Your signature alone proves that to be true.

[broken.record]Draw traffic != poaching.[/broken.record]

Any Maemo forum where I am in the top-5 of Maemo knowledge is not one that I want to be a part of.

An insider? I'm a guy who bought a tablet. If that makes me an insider, then apparently [almost] everyone here is an insider as well.

Either you're trying to spin something, or you need to re-read. PM'ing a moderator on tmo only requires you to be logged in to tmo, which apparently he is, or else he couldn't post.

Playing dumb does not become you.

Nice Us-vs-them propaganda.

Hey everybody, I'm an insider! What does that even mean?

LOL.

Have you noticed that YOU are central in all these recent types of arguments?

Maybe it's just you.

(All my fellow insiders will agree ;))

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I've conferred with my fellow insiders, and we have determined that this has gone far enough.

I've said what I need to say, and shall say no more on the subject.

Tally, ho!

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

After conferring with my fellow sociopaths, we concur. :)

... lets move on.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I didn't want credit, but in a roundabout way, I became the face of those wanting rotation. I could be reading about anything Portrait or ASR related, and my name would come up. It was amazing, to be honest. The ensuing ruckus wasn't my intent, but after having been told how the N900 wasn't meant for ASR, would be useless, and so on, it felt good to see my insight into what the smartphone community wants was dead on. No one will say I was right, but I was, and ya should've listened when I said it. But we're on something else now...

And Jay, you're the ONLY member of this forum I genuinely LIKE alot. Let's keep it that way. All is dead and over. Peace, my fellow musician.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I didn't get the memo. Must've been asleep. :p

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Is this site for real?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

That's an awfully small group! :D

Of course it makes sense that ultimately, of everyone trying to get the last word (wait for it)...

There can be only one!

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

i understand.
I think that was amazing too.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Ah yes, the power of crossposting is amazing...


Here ya go, "The Memo"...

...after completing the survey you can see your responses in copy-and-pasteable format.

I know we all decided to "move on" but since you missed the memo and in a "roundabout way" you have become the "face" of those who do not recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible...

Feel free to copy then paste your results in as many forums as you like. I think you will also be amazed how often your name will come up. :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Enough. I'd hate to have to close a potentially useful thread on the "user friendliness" of the site due to petty sniping.

Move on. Use this thread for constructive site criticism and ideas.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I know MF isn't nearly the size of Maemo.org, but we've managed to merge our two communities. What is the limitation keeping this one from having a single login?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Size matters not. Ie. whether you merge 100 or 1000 or 10.000 users you'd automate the process anyway in case of LDAP with ldif & some scripts.

Currently used software matters (hence comparing between sites is both useless and very complex, and not necessary or productive). There are several software platforms which are 'unaware' of each other which is precisely what SSO solves (on authentication layer, that is). Question is if it is possible to implement SSO [and which SSO framework] in each software platform. Meanwhile, every framework has their pros and cons. If that is not already complex enough, imagine you're gonna end up developing code which must be tested very well because SSO is related to authentication which makes it a potential weak chain in security framework. Add to that, the developers who'd implement are professionals with limited time available.

You can read the discussions here:

http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on
http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/sso-m...009-05-27.html

Write less, read more, thank you.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Just to add the perspectives of a new user. I appreciate single sign on isn't that easy to achieve, but having a consistent header across the top of the different sections of the site, containing what appears to be a single login prompt and registration button makes it really unclear what's going on and it's not obvious that there is more than one thing here to log in to.

Therefore if we can't have single sign on then it needs to be clearer to new users where the boundaries between the areas that need different accounts are. Alternatively a bit of extra information in the following places might have helped eplain what was going after I'd registered but still couldn't get into the forum:

- welcome mail from the garage should say that you'll need to register for the forum separately

- the "you have used x number of your 5 logins to the forum" message should say something about garage logins not being valid here and you must register separately

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Wow. I was only wondering what the bottlenecks to SSO were, and I got more than I bargained for. Lots of reading, indeed. I'd have never found that info on my own in a timely fashion, either, so thanks. I am just a new guy, and all the reading in the world won't replace the veterans that know the path to the right info. So asking beats reading when you don't know where to start.

And for every hour I spend writing, 6 is spent reading. My personal rule. But thanks for the advice.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

600 posts is nothing for a big mouth like me. :) I posted over 3k posts on SF via my mobile only in record time.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Oh, I merely got those URLs from a post on page 16 (default settings) in this very thread: voila... :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I've tried to skim through the many posts of these threads looking for problems of user friendliness of talk.maemo.org would rely.

Am I missing something or single sign-on is the only measurable problem beyond human psychology reported here?

If so, there two tasks committed to the maemo.org October sprint:

9.10-03 Implement SSO backend Must indeyets 0%
9.09-10 Implement SSO sync-API endpoint for garage Could danielwilms 0%

No talk.maemo.org login integration in this sprint. If you want to help on this then you can offer your hand directly to the people in the works, or at least you can help creating/improving/promoting a wiki page explaining the status of logins in maemo.org that could be e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_sign-on

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

It has been a couple days since I set up my MO account. I believe I linked appropriately to my TMO account, but my karma is still showing as 0.

Is my karma reallly zero? Or is there some other problem?

Under "talk.maemo.org account url", I put:
http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=XXXXX

Is that correct?

I guess that SSO will eliminate the need for things like this, which will help a lot.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Besides SSO, maybe a better labelling system and categorization of the forum topics, and maybe once some sort of fix or answer is devised, maybe posting it in a separate locked thread as a guide to avoid having to read through 50+ pages of posts looking for an answer.

Honestly, things are already moving in the right direction, and only need time to figure out. It gets better the more acclimated we all become, and the more friendly we act as guides. Human touch is well known to overcome technical difficulties.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Not if you really put, "XXXXX." It needs your Talk user ID.

Tim

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

It resolved itself apparently -- unless some admin did something and didn't tell me. I didn't change anything and it suddenly updated today, so I know my karma finally. (Now I'm not sure what good it does me to know my karma, but when I didn't know it, it seemed important to know...)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

LOL. :D

The site needs a progress bar that counts down in days instead of seconds. (Just don't implement one like microsoft -- it would jump from "almost done" to 4305978 days left, at random.)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Well, I put forth the issue of bumping & topic starter/first post quality before. Quoting myself:

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Worth considering. My experience is that this first point is what has put Ubuntu on top.

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...more-human.ars

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I'm just waiting for something concrete so I can link talk.maemo.org to any existing/being worked on solution. The last thing I did was to add talk's member database structure on this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_si...stored_in_ldap

I have not heard of any updates.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

So many questions about Single Sign-On here and there...

Task:Single sign-on for maemo.org
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28800

danielwilms is the one in charge knowing everything. You and anybody else wondering: pull his tongue please. :)