Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

N900 - Unlearn what you have learned

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

An OQO with a paltry 3 hours of battery life - and this will blow the doors off the 900 ?

Do you realize its usability that matters - not just specs.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Actually I'd kill for three hours of battery life. It's sufficient for most meetings, for most airline flights, and for lunch or for smoking a cigar in the evening on the back porch. It's not an all day computer. It's a trade off like any other computer. The iPhone actually underclocks their processor to increase battery life at the expense of processing speed. It's a different answer to the trade off.

My point was that for those times when I need to do computing tasks (like annotating PDF documents) as opposed to smartphone tasks (like browsing the Internet) my computer is better than an N900. If, OTOH, I had to use my computer with Skype as my primary phone, it would fail miserably.

It's all about competing priorities. The ultimate device does not exist and I will predict that it still will not exist in step 5.

My ultimate computer/phone is about the size of the Nokia 2630. Runs a quad core 64 bit CPU at 5GHz or more. Doesn't have a keyboard because it uses voice recognition, eyetracking, and in air gestures for input. Has a flexible, full color, HDMI roll-out display. Is constantly connected via 4G. Runs for a week without a charge. And is free from any phone company. Until then, trade offs are a fact of life.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Yep. Mine is the desire to have a device. I want to run with it to work on the trails around here, take notes in meetings and on the plane (and my plane trips are usually several hours long), review papers and write reviews, write and give presentations, play on it when bored (not often), call home (Skype for preference) when away, and get where i"m going in a different country or part of my country. It should cost less than a grand and fit in my pocket cos I don't want to lug a big box around, and it should weigh no more than 1/2 pound or so (remember, I want to run with it - stopwatch, gps, HRM potentially). Would be great if I could use it for paying for stuff at POS too...

Don't much care for air gestures. I see them every day :p

Above all: 1 device.

Anyone got any suggestions? :D

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Still cant see what Average Joe needs to be able to do that the N900 cant do?

Mike C

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I don't think Joe Average is supposed to understand the N900. From a publisher perspective, N900 feels like the "public beta" for Nokia to build a software library and work out the UX kinks.

As a publisher on OVI, we've been told we can't start submitting Maemo apps until *after* the N900 is released. If this device was really for Joe Average, it would be suicide to release it to a store of empty shelves. I also hear it's a little on the large side.

If Nokia's plan is to grab the attention of developers/publishers and early-adopters/trend-setters though, I think they're accomplishing their goal. I'm thrilled to have a Linux-based device with a Linux-based official SDK. I'm already porting our S60 app to Maemo (which isn't much work, because I did the prototype using SDL+ALSA and I'd made a version for Motorola's Linux phones.)

I think the N900 mini or N901 or N970 or whatever they call it will be the device for Joe Average. They'll have a library of software on OVI and tons of feedback from early adopters.


....now i have to get back to work on moFlashlite and moFart. :p


-Pat

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think your particular trade off will be between the "write and give presentations" and the "no more than 1/2 pound". The Viliv S5 is around 400 gms but it will handle everything else if you can accept the on screen keyboard. The UMID M1 adds back in the keyboard and gets down to almost 300 gms but I understand there are problems hooking it up to an external display.

I can't speak for the N900. I understand it is handling Office files with Documents to Go. Unfortunately, Dataviz has not announced this and while they support editing presentations on some hardware they don't on others. It's also possible OpenOffice or one of its variants will work. Once you've got the presentation, the question would be could the N900 output it to a VGA/DVI/HDMI cable for projection.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I find it amazing that Nokia doesn't want its store stocked and ready to open on day one of the release of this unit!!! They are really telling developers not to release anything till after the unit is out there? Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

There's another thread on "is the N900 yet another user acceptance test device?" I personally, based on absolutely no internal knowledge, suspect that the N910 will be a touch screen only device and that the next device after that will be their real attempt to win over Joe.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32487

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

There is an implication that the iphone is for average Joe, but I didnt see no app store when the iphone came out

Mike C

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

In traveling throughout the United States, I have found WiFi to be the most reliable connection media for communication and the cheapest. In many places where my Verizon signal faded, it was the Motel WiFi access that keep me going. More and more cities, such as where I live, have free WiFi. Therefore, I believe that an updated N810 would have been the perfect device for Joe Average. Until then, I would not trade my N800 for an N900.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

And stay off my porch, ya pesky kids!

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Yes, the display thing is an issue but I've done it before with TV out and it works okay. As for editing, the n810 does a great job with openoffice, so I'm hoping n900 will too (I recall qole mentioning someplace he wanted to see if it could be sped up).

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

You're correct. There wasn't even an SDK when the iPhone first went on sale. The App Store didn't get going for a year.

Unfortunately for Nokia/Maemo (and Android, WebOS, WinMo, and Moblin), this isn't 2007 and they aren't competing against the original iPhone. An App Store is now considered part of what makes a smart phone smart.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think what we forget is this thing might sell a couple million units in it's first year with or without Joe. And I'm sure there will be more than a few iPhone developers willing to jump ship just to be in a market where their apps get noticed, not just one of a zillion iPhone Apps.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Or where they can make an app and sell it themselves on their own website with no one's approval necessary.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

This argument works for me. I feel much more tempted to invest hours in development for a platform where I can control the application access myself if I want to.

However, with all these app stores popping up like mosquito bites on a pale nerd on an involuntary forest hike, I think maybe that freedom can't be taken for granted in the long run. There's a lot of money in controlling the app access. They don't replace software repositories and software pages like http://maemo.org/downloads/ with aPp stores because it's a better service. They replace it because aPple makes a whole bunch on moneyses on theirs.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

And a word onbhalf of Joe Average Teddy Bear: If I'm going to fork out a fiver for an app because it is neat, easy and will do exactly what I want I'd far, far, far rather hand that over direct to the developer who put in the time and effort, than see him/her get 50p and the rest go to some great technology giant.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

If it sells a million units this thread is superfluous.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Previous tablets have already sold well over a million units (based on sales numbers from 2007, I might add). A million isn't going to be an issue for the N900. ;)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Who is this Joe and why is he getting so much publicity?:D

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Then I don't think there will be a problem. 1,000,000 units in the first year would make it one of the top selling smartphones and if it is one of the top selling smartphones then software development companies will move Maemo up their priority list.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

But we have had maemo garage for three years, its easy to use, and all the apps are free.
And now you have n900 app store as well
http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/...ons/:rolleyes:

Mike C

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Maemo Select is well done and impressive in many ways except for the fact that there are only two pages.

The Maemo garage is easy if you are used to SourceForge. If, OTOH, you are used to other app stores, you will be intimidated, frustrated, and lost in short order. Even as an advanced open source user, I have no idea if I've gotten to all the projects that I am interested in. For example, if I go to Project Cloud and select Tablet OS Version, it returns the following options: All OS, OS2006, OS2007, Web Based Software. There are 184 OS2008 projects that won't show up under any of those categories and no Maemo 5 projects show up (which I assume is incorrect).

Also here is the description of latest "news" (it should really say release) right now:

mafw-lastfm 0.0.1
Claudio Saavedra - 2009-10-05 11:16 - mafw-lastfm
mafw-lastfm is a last.fm scrobbler for maemo devices using the Media Application Framework, like the N900. This is its the initial release. It basically works: it sets your playing-now status and it scrobbles.

That's not the most new user friendly description in the world (and I don't mean to pick on this project - I've used last.fm and I understand what he's talking about - the million new N900 users may not be as knowledgeable). Furthermore, while I recognize that "it basically works" combined with "0.0.1" means it's an alpha release not too far removed from the first clean compile, Joe Average may not.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

If Joe Average is not clued in enough to google last.fm and able to figure out what it does then .... oh you see where I am going with this.

I think the old adage of "Every time I think I have made something idiot proof, they build a better idiot" applies. Eventually the user is going to have to use some actual brain power, regardless of how average he is. Nothing is idiot proof.

The store is brand new and has two pages because its not actually open yet.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think the store is great and I hope it will have many more polished apps available by the time the N900 starts shipping. And I said that before.

The garage is a somewhat disorganized, somewhat grimy garage. I would not even tell a new user it existed. For community projects I'd point them at maemo.org's Downloads section.

Joe Average isn't an idiot any more than Jim Developer, although both can act like it at times. I fully understand, as some do not, that the only thing that really needs to be printed on the N900 (or any other) retail box is a bar code and that I can Google my way from there. I prefer a bit more information a bit better organized. If you are going to label that anything, label it laziness. And remember that we are all lazy in our own way.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Right, the device hasn't been released yet. Most developers just got their hands on one today. . . .

Garage isn't intended as an application catalog, it's for project management. You want Downloads.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I understand that some developers are just getting started. Others, every one that's in the app store now, got it a long time ago. I think Nokia may have made a mistake by not releasing it to more developers until today. That's my opinion for what it's worth. We shall see.

As far as Downloads, yes, I know it's there. I was responding to mike c's comment "But we have had maemo garage for three years, its easy to use, and all the apps are free." The first and last statements are true, the second is not. So as not to pick too much on mafw-lastfm, let's go to the second news item, pidgen, which never mentions (for the benefit of those who were using AIM or Yahoo Messenger or Trillian, etc) that it's a chat program.

As it stands now, maemo.org is not customer oriented, it is developer oriented, and that is not a bad thing as long as maemo.org recognizes that and wants that. And I have suggested elsewhere that the customers might be better served if they were walled off and maybe even exiled to Tablet101.

If on the other hand, maemo.org wants to become more customer oriented then there needs to be more recognition that customers may not recognize things that developer recognize. Furthermore, if maemo.org wants to become more customer oriented then it's the developers who will need to change.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I concur. I had no idea the tablets sold that well. It does mean this thread is, while interesting, superfluous.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Does that mean using it is going to be torture?:p

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I believe the N900 has the same TV out cable as the N82, which I've used on my 37" LCD TV, and on my father's 50" Plasma TV with no problems. I have also used it on my PC monitor via a VGA box. The 3 inputs go in the back and the box comes with a VGA cable to go to the computer monitor. My VGA box has 4 inputs so I was playing Playstation and my Xvid DVD player on the monitor as well at one point. I'm sure a direct convertor for just one source can be found easily.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Average Joe wants to show off and tell iPhone users that they have the cooler phone... and prove it with eye-catching games and applications.

Like it or not, iPhone is what Average Joe sees as the pinnacle of "smartphones" :(

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Here's a take from an outsider at the Maemo Summit (and note that Chippy is in no way an Average Joe):

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/10/what-is-the-n900/

He doesn't see it as a consumer product, nor does he think Nokia sees it as a consumer product. As he says:

"The N900 is a technology showcase designed to stimulate a wide range of development activity that can be used to refine the products that will appear with the next, final, phase of Maemo. The real consumer-focused products."

Still, it is not a negative review. His conclusion is:

"The N900 is a catalyst and it just so happens that it’s good, is going to get better and is available to all of us who enjoy the ultra mobile computing experience. It’s another great option and as a converged, pocketable, voice-capable device, the best I’ve ever used. It’s a great catalyst!"

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Thor
hmm

so let see, here are some simple things that iphone users don't have without getting into technicalities.

-Can you stick an sd card in it ....nope
-Can I carry a spare battery ....nope
-How is the picture quality ....hmm not so good
-Does it take videos ...only if you have the latest iteration.
-need a keyboard ....oh here is real one as well as touch one
-how much memory have you got ...oh only 8GB cause the 32GB is an option and costs loads
-Screen resolution ...oh thats lots of pinching and poping

Lets put this iPhone in perspective guys, its for ordinary Joe cause thats what ordinary Joe's want.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

avg consumers dont care about resolution
most people dont use a spare battery
most people dont use a keyboard in fact most hate it
memory depends on users..

cant force this phone on everyone but i love it

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Hi,

I fully support this conclusion. To me this device is clearly not targeted at the average user. In my opinion, it's targeted at developers and tech-lovers. Hence, I feel the purpose of this device is to get a foot in the market and to support the development of the customer-oriented devices by creating the necessary infrastructure (apps, ovi, community base, experience, ...). - Joe wouldn't want such a work-in-progress device I guess - I do however ;)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

The osx as an OS / Platform was not able to meet the needs of users at day one, it took a year and billions in marketing $$ to get it to take off and become what the end consumer needed (not wanted). N900 and Maemo are playing a catch up game.

More and more it appears nokia is doing the right thing, get the phone out at a good price, get carriers to pick it up, and inspire developers to create cool things on it.

But I guess this would take away some of the geek factor. It wont be as geek sheik if soccer moms are using it will it. so lets all tell the world:

"naw don't get it there will be a better one in a year or 2... this one, its only meant for people who know c^ or Java. It doesn't even have 1000 apps to make fart noises... why would you consider it. Go get an i-phone, it 'just works' and is meant for everyone unlike the n900... which you really shouldn't buy, cos you won't get it, its way too complex"