Re: Ask the Council!
 

Okay.
Just rename MeEgo to maemo and all problems are solved! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

they should of told all the council imo.
b/c i leaked the news hours before the event any way atleast they would not of had a shock and worried

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As much as it frustrates me, I just don't see any other way two large companies like Intel and Nokia could really have gone about this. In the end, money talks and a big PR move like this brings a lot more interest than having a pow-wow with your community.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I totally agree

At a minimum they could have sent us a heads up prior to posting it on their blog.

Thats all I'm saying

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I believe no entity except maemo.org itself can kill council.

I hope we don't have complete dissolution - some projects remain and some find a home at MeeGo.

Thank you for your work.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

So, a very simple question then, to the Council:

- can you ask the following question from Nokia (and via them Intel/Linux Foundation):

-- Can maemo community decide to move over to meego and will Nokia help implement such move, if the decision is yes?

(I thought about a 3rd cascaded question, but it is still morning ;-) )

This would clarify the possibilities. If the answer from Nokia is "No", then we are on our own and can decide to keep maemo community as it is, or rename it to meegocommunity.org or ... If the answer is "yes" from Nokia, then we can pick to move to meego.com, too.

So, the council could help perform the first 2 steps:
- check for constraints from N/I/LF ;)
- poll the maemo community for direction

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'd like that question to be very specific. Nokia said a while ago that it was committed to the community being comprised of developers, enthusiasts and end users. I'd like to see some sort of commitment that end users are still wanted, since they don't seem to feature in the moblin landscape at all.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Good point, in my head all things (news/planet, end user/power user/community member/community champion/council/developer, bug, brainstorm, testing squad, forum) is part of the community.

Very good point to clarify the meaning of community for Nokia too. Thanks.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Produce a quote as a community member and developer about the merge.

I think that was the initial idea, but got dismissed not sure why, probably to avoid leaks. Afaik even people working at Maemo devices and close to Nokia didn't knew about this merge, of course that's all about marketing.
Telling a community guy about the merge worth nothing for the community in general, but that action showed at least that they trust the people inside the community.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

IMHO the end users is what makes our community unique, they provide very valuable input(a lot of noise also :D), it's a shame that some people don't see things that way.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'm trying really hard not to take that as an insult.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Far from my intention, sorry if insulted someone, but if you only disclose some info with just one person the odds of a leak are smaller than telling 10 persons, don't you agree ?

I also agree that would be better to tell the entire council.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I don't mean an insult from you, Valerio, sorry. I mean IF that was the reason behind the decision. Given that I was specifically asked not to speculate (as is my tendency, I realize) it makes me wonder.

But I would not have leaked anything.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I also don't know the reasons, but I know some marketing guys in other big companies and leaks are one of their worst nightmares because 'these' can ruin all their work in big announcements, on the other hand leaks are good marketing for some products :). Seems that the marketing part went well, there's news about the merge everywhere.

But this is not relevant anymore, and i understand that sometimes things can only be done this way, so let concentrate in the discussion about the role of the council in the meego ecosystem.

What role do you think our current form of council can play in Meego ?

From my POV the steering group should have community representation at least, probably the whole council :D.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'm sure I can think of many things we could do... and if I can ever edit the MeeGo wiki I'll certainly touch on them there... but right now there's this huge question mark looming in front of me: will it be a true council, as we more-or-less had here, or just another "working group"?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I am guessing that the 'steering group' are the Really Important People at Nokia and Intel (Ari Jaaksi, Qgil, people like that). If not, then I want to know who they are, and how they got to be the steering group. And the sooner they handover to some sort of elected group, the happier I shall be.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

In my view, you can ignore whether or not Moblin has had end-users integrated into their community in the past. Yes, there may be a contrast there: Nokia has done work to specifically promote integrating engaged users into the community, and perhaps Moblin hasn't. I really don't know what they have or haven't done. Regardless, there's a key, underlying difference in that Moblin hasn't shipped a line of retail devices the way Nokia has.

This merger has clearly been in the works, or at under discussion, for quite some time. oFono and other collaborative bits point to that. Meanwhile, Nokia has, if anything, increased their embrace of users, inviting input into device manuals, running Rooftop collaboration sessions, paying community members' way to "long weekends" for documentation development, etc. There'd be no sense in that, were Nokia planning to try to lock out engaged users now.

Beyond that, why would Nokia want to push non-developers from the community now just as they are readying the release of that much anticipated, finally "ready for the mass market", step 5 of 5 device? With the release of each Maemo device, the maemo.org community has seen a progressively larger jump in size. Yes, new developers came each time, but users came in far greater numbers. The N900, the not-quite-ready-for-mass-market, step 4 of 5 device, brought a tidal wave. The influx of people the Harmattan device brings should dwarf everything that's come before. Why would Nokia try to work against that? Why would they want to?

Even if Nokia, Intel, etc. wanted to lock out users in order to build a "pure", developer-only community around MeeGo, they'd be hard pressed to do so. maemo.org started as a developer-focused place, but InternetTabletTalk, a more user-focused site, grew right along side it. And even before maemo.org officially expanded it's focus, there was great overlap between the membership of the two sites, and quite a few non-developers ranked among the top contributors at maemo.org.

This community is bigger than Nokia, Intel, or any of the other corporations. Sure, they ship the cool toys and kindly pay the server bills, but if they tried to change the community in the way you fear, I assure you the community would find new, independent servers to host us.

There's not much definition of community on the Meego site yet, as that's been left to us, the community. We don't need Moblin, Intel, Nokia, or any other corporate group to tell us who we are. We've a greeter program, well then, let's greet the Moblin folks. Let's find out who they are. Let's tell them who we are. Then we can fill in all that blank community space on MeeGo.com with information about, and for, all of us.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

MeeGo Greeters assemble! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Point me to where I can shake hands with the moblin people and I will. But as the maemo-community people will testify, I'm not very familiar with how mailing list communications work. ;)

I'd like to suggest that one of the things we could use this as an opportunity to do is redesign our talk forums from the ground up so we have a structure that will (i) make users of legacy devices feel at home and able to find their way without drowing in the newest and shiniest, (ii) help new users make a beginning, seek help and support (provided by willing volunteers), (iii) channel more experienced users into providing support, wiki-editing, testing and feedback (and maybe even developing) and (iv) move all the 'non-specific' stuff into one area where people can throw mushy peas at each other to their hearts content in 'sucks/rocks' threads without disturbing the general running of the place.

Reporting for duty, SAH!

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Your first task: tackle the RPM debacle on meego-dev.

Good luck! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Certainly - just as soon as you explain it to me in short words that a bear of very little brain can understand. Cos I really, really don't get it. Like, why can't I just run symbian apps on MeeGo? They're both open source!

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Login with your meego.org account, go to your user preferences and confirm your mail address there, a bit weird after doing the same at meego.org :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I alreaqdy told him that but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I think the Meego beasties object to the idea of a rat. ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I can't log in at all on the wiki page, meego account or whatever. But Kathy says I may need to RE-confirm my email at meego.com... :rolleyes:

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yep. Go back to your profile, re-enter your email and make a.n.other change, click save. You'll get another confirmation email with a link. THEN you can edit the wiki.

Come on, Texrat, if the bear can do it... if maemo.org taught me nothing else it was to keep on logging in, creating log-ins, confirming emails...

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I agree that getting wiki editing privileges on the MeeGo wiki is unnecessarily complex (first you sign up for MeeGo, then you sign up for the wiki) but I know you can do it!

I was actually wondering where you were on this page, Texrat. I see that even a self-professed "bear of very little brains" has managed to edit that page, so I'm sure you can, too!

EDIT: Hah, The right reverend bear beat me to it ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

i think it matters which part you make account at, it told me to enable acces to all parts and get single sign in to make my account from main front page, something like that it said

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I edited the wiki and didn't break it, either! DNeary would be proud of me.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

My proposal would be to propose to ... so to have community representation in the meego steering group e.g. with one (or two) votes :)

Also, coming back to my earlier point(s):
1. qgil pretty much answered that Nokia is committed to funding the same (or more) community activites as w maemo.org, as long as we decide what we want.
2. now it would be good time for the council to figure out a good way to poll the community, pick a direction and start working for it :-D

Asking the council: are you ready?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Followed Kathy's instructions. To the letter. Did not receive confirmation email.

It's gotta be me.

EDIT: amazingly enough, the wiki page finally gave up. I gotta thank mullf again for the bat'leth suggestion.

If any part of the wiki is in tatters, I blame the guy in weapons logistics. I asked for a size 7 and he gave me a nine. Talk about collateral damage...

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Rats, foiled again!

Hehehe.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yeah, I think you angered the meego beasties by taking one as your avatar.

What I did was this:
* log in
*open the wiki
*hit edit
*find I couldn't actually type anything
*find a tiny line saying I needed permissions and had to validate my email
*click that
*arrive at my profile, which I thought I had validated
*enter my email
*receive a confirmation email
*click that link
*go back and find the wiki again....

It was a palaver. But maybe the beasties like bears?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

The problem was that the wiki wouldn't let me past the login. I got "Access Denied". But I edited my previous post-- the damn thing surrendered after something like the tenth try.

And Gadsby: :p

Spoke too soon. Got access denied again. :mad:

EDIT: this just gets weirder by the minute. Even though I still get "access denied" error on certain links, I can now edit the wiki page. Go figure.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

It's worth clarifying that the current MeeGo governance structure only has a Technical Steering Group and two Big Corp VPs as benevolent dictators.

This is a level of openness we've never had from Nokia: I've been banging on the drum of involving community software professionals in the design process for years.

This is what's necessary to deliver a product.

However, a Community Steering Group is probably necessary to manage websites, wikis, Bugzilla, planets, fora, mailing lists, karma, summits, work with the TSG on community packaging and distribution and so on and so forth.

The Maemo Community Council will be instrumental in saying how the existing Maemo community integrates and where it is appropriate to do so.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Regardless of who winds up on the next one, I sure hope so.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

The forum issue is potentially divisive and seems like a few people want to push it as fast as possible.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44977

I encourage current Council to provide management and leadership so that the process in reaching the decision on the forum is accepted by as much of the community as possible. Preserving the issue for the next Council may or may not be the best option.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

My position is to start fresh with a new forum, as stated in the other thread. I think that's the best and most fair approach overall.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I've the same opinion, but we need to ponder a bit more and listen more opinions from the community IMO.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I also think a new forum is the best answer. I don't mind Reggie running it, either. But I think a clean break with new forums is the best plan at the moment.

When I say "best answer," I don't mean that I really like it, but I like the other solutions even less. :(

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I agree with listening more, but at the same time would rather move sooner than later.