Re: Will it be a Maemo 6 or it will just be MeeGo?
 

The money & name. It sure ain't about use users. If they had to go netbook OS joliecloud would have worked smother, faster & better.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

maemo 5 is not complete it lacks native features like mms and built in support for the front camera and IR port

software to use such is still experimental and when there is a new OS that the N900 cant run we loose the developers to fill in the gaps

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

This naming thing is STILL causing confusion. I even fell into the trap today after thinking I had it straight. Surely Nokia and Intel and figure out a way to make this more clear...

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

What was your confusion, specifically?

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

My confusion has been resolved. I get the technical aspect vs branding aspect. I hope.

But I'm telling you, you're seeing the tip of a marketing iceberg, and MeeGo is the Titannic. Drama aside, Attila77's suggestion to add subbranding would probably go a long way toward minimizing the FUD that MeeGo will really instigate once it starts finding its way to TVs, automobiles and toasters. Granted this is not a Quim or Ari or even Nokia issue, it's a MeeGo one.

MeeGo really needs a message that we evangelists can present to the buying public in 3 sentences or less. MeeGo isn't what's gonna resonate with the masses; you know that. MeeGo + "UX value added" is what they'll expect.

(sorry for being obtuse... the MeeGo/Harmattan/Moblin2.2 situation is what's causing confusion as I can see)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

I personally believe most of this confusion will vanish when we have beta/stable releases and launched devices to name.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Could you share the rationale ? Harmattan is still going to be Maemo under the hood, Moblin 2.2 is still good old Moblin under the hood, so the best we can talk about is actually how easy it will be to transfer applications, development, etc between 'mainline' MeeGos and these 'work-in-progress' MeeGos, but that does still not help differentiating them. For example, how do you explain the difference between the LG GW990 and the future Harmattan device to someone ? Both claim to be MeeGo phones (or mobile computers) but - they have separate architectures, separate UIs, separate (but similar) APIs, separate package management, separate appstores/repositories, separate upgrade paths... you get the idea - there's just too many loose ends with the current transitional devices to be able to get away with calling them all MeeGo, no matter how tempting that may be from a marketing perspective. You'll just end up diluting the MeeGo brand, as it won't matter if something is MeeGo or not, but rather which exact device you have, which does not bode well for the platform (by either the weak branding OR the fragmentation it foreshadows).

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

I don't think what Attila is saying can even be overstated.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Of course the risk of confusion, brand dillution and platform fragmentatio can't be overstated. I'm just saying that first things go first: architectures, APIs, platform compliance criteria and brand guidelines.

All this needs to be done by the MeeGo project, say before a beta release. Then device vendors will position their products in relation to MeeGo. Then devices will be in the shops, apps will be in stores, etc.

There is still a way for us at Nokia to get there. In the meantime we are calling MeeGo to MeeGo and Harmattan to Harmattan.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Perhaps this is where some of the confusion is coming from? Personally, I thought:

Maemo 5 = Fremantle
Maemo 6 = Harmattan

Then I thought you started a thread requesting a rename of one of the forums, which I can't find right now? Reading that thread and others has lead me to believe

Maemo 6 = Harmattan ~ MeeGo, the understanding being that Maemo 6, Harmattan, MeeGo were all semi-interchangeable, with MeeGo being the new brand that Maemo 6 / Harmattan would be released under?

Now, you seem (to me) to be implying that they are separate?

I thought the next Nokia device to be released, would state on the box/literature/marketing that it runs MeeGo, not Maemo? I think this is were the confusion (at least mine, right now) is coming from.

Sorry if this post is confusing

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

No need to apologize IMO. Until highly-visible and engaged members like yourself are comfortable explaining this subject to others, then this venture is prone to stumble.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Exactly. That's why it seemed a bit premature to rush out and call/rebrand Harmattan + Moblin 2.2 as MeeGo instances even *before* architecture, APIs and platform compliance criteria were determined. I understand Nokia was put between a rock and a hard place when asked about Harmattan in a MeeGo context. It's understandable both Intel and Nokia want to protect their investment and avoid the Osborne effect, but OTOH this puts the MeeGo brand itself in an arduous position. I just hope long term architecture and compliance criteria will not be sacrificed in order to save face on PR and upgrade questions. All in all, more discussion will follow after "day one", I just hope *all* the Nokia *AND* Intel teams think this through, together, before committing the big guns to particular tasks.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

A good and maybe ironic example of how some of the confusion is mitigated by competitors: Microsoft calling its automotive solution SYNC rather than "Windows for Automobiles".

Similarly, MeeGo in the context of automotive use will be sitting under GENIVI. So what name will be ringing in the ears of automobile purchasers? Surely GENIVI, not MeeGo.

Up to now Maemo resided on internet tablets and now mobile computers, and there were more similarities than differences between the various devices. So not so much risk of consumer confusion. In this case Maemo was the branding of the consumer layer.

But MeeGo will find its way into broader contexts. Saying "this is Maemo 4 on the N810, this is Maemo 5 on the N900" is not the same as "this is a flavor of MeeGo on your cell phone, this is a flavor of MeeGo on your refrigerator". Consumers aren't going to care about embedded versions, and they'll be confused by anyone referring to those embedded operating systems by the exact same name applied to their cell phone (when I told friends and family I had repaired my refrigerator's motherboard, they did not know how to receive that :D).

So again, to Attila77's earlier suggestion, there need to be two tiers of branding for MeeGo, with MeeGo as the underlying context and some distinction added by a subbrand:

MeeGo Embedded
MeeGo Mobile
MeeGo Desktop
etc

Specifics on how to apply this and clarify the current MeeGo/Harmatttan/Mobiln2.2 muddiness-- I currently have no idea. And that's a problem, because I have enough experience with this that it *should* come easily.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

That was in this very thread - originally post 1 but now post 14 due to this thread being merged with a similar earlier one.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

I hate to do this (as it may spread un-need FUD), but I also want to be clear what is going on here.

Previously, there were 2 groups inside Nokia working on Maemo (probably an oversimplification). One doing bugfixes for Fremantle, and one working on Harmattan development, at least that's what I assume.

So my inital assumption was that the Harmattan group would transition into the MeeGo group. Which I suppose, now that I think about it, was misguided (at least as far as the near future).

To me, it seems as though there are/shold be 3 groups? Fremantle bugfix, Harmattan development, MeeGo development? MeeGo development being a blend of Intel/Nokia people? Which leads me to wonder what Nokia thoughts on cost-effective distribution of resources are.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Thank you, confusing to say the least, I was searching for threads started by qgil, hence didn't see this one.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Thanks pelago.

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=14 still stands for the topic of this thread: Maemo 6 vs Harmattan / MeeGo.

If you have proposals for MeeGo branding the best place to post them is the MeeGo project.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

But does that apply to Harmattan, as was mentioned on one of the email lists earlier?

We're talking about an unusual and awkward branding subject here that straddles Maemo/MeeGo.

EDIT: actually, as Attila77 pointed out, it's bigger than just branding due to deb/rpm, etc.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Personally, the whole thing just sounds like a remix of that Hang Williams jr song...

Goodbye Joe, me gotta go, meego maemo
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou

Everything that gets said about it (on both sides of the coin) is just similar jibberish to me.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

That was Hank Williams Sr. ;)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Maybe I'm wrong on this but here's my take...

Harmattan can be called MeeGo 1 for all I care, as long as Harmattan devices can be upgraded to the fully integrated MeeGo 2.

I hate to bring up the subject of device upgrades, but if the illusion is given that Harmattan *is* "MeeGo" (albeit with DEB packaging etc.) then it's a nonsense to release a different and technically incompatible MeeGo (with RPM packaging) only for those Harmattan users to discover they weren't actually running the real deal after all, and can't upgrade to the real deal either.

If a Harmattan upgrade path is built into the MeeGo plan then Harmattan could be based on a Windows kernel and nobody should care - it's only a transitional and temporary step in order to get to the promised land: MeeGo.

If the intention is for Harmattan to have a life beyond MeeGo then it would be wrong to confuse matters by referring to Harmattan as "MeeGo" because it's not MeeGo.

However if Harmattan is meant to be replaced by MeeGo - and users *can* replace Harmattan with MeeGo - then I would see no problem in blurring the distinction and allow both to be called MeeGo (perhaps v1 and v2...) and the sooner Harmattan and even Maemo is forgotten, the better.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Yes, the issue is with Harmattan (and Moblin). Only Nokia can (un)brand Harmattan. MeeGo 1.0 as a result of a *finished* Moblin+Maemo merger I understand. QGil in this very thread said a month ago:

So far so good. But as time went by, both Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.2 picked up on the MeeGo moniker, so it's no longer just the result or successor that is called MeeGo. Maemo 6 is now MeeGo / Harmattan, and worse yet, moblin folks refer to Moblin 2.2 simply as MeeGo, which translates the above statement to MeeGo / Harmattan and MeeGo merge and have a successor called MeeGo. That can't be right... Harmattan and Moblin 2.2 as sort of ProtoMeeGo are okay, but pushing them under a MeeGo 1.0 umbrella will be a stretch no matter how you do it (being both better and worse ways of communicating this to people not interested in details, just general compatibility and upgrades).

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

I think the confusion arise from a confusing (fast changing) market. Cellphone are not what they use to be and people have come to expect more computer-like feature from them (see any FUD thread on tmo).

If I remember correctly even Google surprised a lot of people when they announced their Chrome OS. Why another OS when you already have Android ? I believe it is because right now we have "book sized internet portal" (netbook) and "pocket sized internet portal" (smartphone).

Nokia and Intel are just trying to merge the two worlds (duh !). So yeah, Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo on some device that is half smartphone and half notebook. I am not speaking of the next Harmattan device here. The one after, after that.

For now we will have to live with the (marketing created) confusion. In my opinion they should keep Maemo branding for smartphone and Moblin branding for netbook.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Point of order:

"Simple" requests to rename (sub) forums should not be made in posts in the subforums themselves, they should be made in posts in the community subforum whose function is precisely "Website and community discussion".

You explained why the text Maemo 6 should be dropped from the forum's name and this makes sense. You explained why Harmattan is still valid. And that makes sense. You then asked to attach the text Meego which appears to be the new name of the operating system brand to the name of Harmattan which is an OS *version*. in which case it should not have included the "/" character just like there is no "/" between Maemo and 4 or Maemo and 5.

Is Meego like Windows or Windows 7?
Is Meego like Ubuntu or Ubuntu Karmic Koala?
Is Meego like Mac OS X or is it Mac OS X Snow Leopard?

Hm..bad example. But Apple gets away with a lot of stuff Nokia can't.

Personally I think the forum should have been renamed
"Maemo 6/Harmattan/Nokia ancestor of Meego"

where one could ask questions like "how to convert rpm's to deb's

We could also have created a subforum under the OS forum called

"Moblin 2/Intel ancestor of Meego" where we could ask questions like "how to convert deb's to rpm's?"

Finally we could create yet another subforum "Meego 1/Adaptable Alex" or whatever "A" word or combination of words you want to use. In this forum we could ask questions like "WHEN IT IS COMING!!!?!?!11!1" :) (typos added for humor)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Btw is Harmattan/MeeGo release date still May like it was said in the 2009 Maemo event?

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Interesting question tissot. Would be interesting if they're still on track with Harmattan ;)

(And if not, we could start a speculation thread about the Harmattan SDK release date...)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Don't you just love speculations... -.-

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

That's what keeps man alive. ;)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Huh ? Harmattan is 2H2010, unless you refer to the Harmattan alpha SDK. We might see MeeGo 1.0, though i'm not sure if it will also not sport a 'beta' or 'alpha' moniker (and no, that one is still not for end-users).

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Precisely yesterday I was thinking that this thread about naming could be de-sticked.

Posts #145 and following are a different topic,please move to a new thread.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Being now Harmattan a transition towards MeeGo, we have decided to let MeeGo releases go first, and then add at a side the Harmattan specific details for those really interested.

Also the fact of publishing SDK pre-releases changes a lot now that we have Qt as baseline and the Qt SDK as official tool.

This is why the Harmattan alpha SDK release announced last year for 1Q 2010 ended up being the MeeGo Day 1. Now we are waiting for the first MeeGo release to be published in few weeks. The plan is to publish the Harmattan platform SDK (Scratchbox based) few weeks after targeting mainly platform developers interested in the diffs between MeeGo and Harmattan with the goal of polishing/bridging them towards the next MeeGo release in Autumn and the Harmattan final release.

Let me insist that MeeGo, with its SDK and build infrastructure, is the track that developers need to follow - including those interested primarily in the evolution of Maemo. The Scratchbox based Harmattan SDK will be interesting just for a minority of really specialized developers interested in software architecture and middleware details.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

So let me repeat that in my own words just to make sure I understood it correctly:

Up to now (pre-Harmattan), the Scratchbox-based SDK was what (amost) all developers needed.

This has changed now because of MeeGo and (maybe more important) Qt, and you have three offers:

Application developers can (and should) download the Qt SDK (Beta) right now and start developing for Harmattan with this IDE. Most of them will not need the Scratchbox-based SDK any more.

Platform developers can (and should) go to meego.com right now and join the party there.

Only a few cases will require access to code that's specific to Harmattan. These cases will not be covered by the abstraction layer that Qt offers, nor by the stock MeeGo code. Developers who need these middle layer are the only ones who'll still need the Scratchbox-based SDK.

Is that how it is now? So especially for application developers, does this mean: Stop waiting for a Harmattan-specific SDK, start working with the Qt SDK now?

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

This is starting with Fremantle, actually (targeting PR1.2+ at that), and will carry on to Harmattan later on (I say later on, as the Maemo 6 UI Framework had no releases so far, so technically there is nothing - yet - to write for or test against).

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Exactly. The plan offered by MeeGo and coincidentally ;) Nokia is to sit on top of the Qt API and tools. Then make your choices on platforms to target and devices to optimize for only when it comes to compile, test, package and publish.

Qt development is quite open. Qt 4.6 has been around for several months and you don't need any MeeGo or Harmattan specific SDK to get you started.

Qt 4.7 is being developed right now, with all the code and tools being available and in the process of stabilization. This means that you can start playing with Qt Quick even before any MeeGo or Symbian folk makes an official statement about it. Because Qt Quick is in Qt 4.7, and that version will be integrated in Qt based platforms at some point.

Same for the Qt Mobility APIs, they are being developed openly and there is nothing really stopping you from getting familiar with them. Nobody has sai what Mobility APIs will be ready for the next MeeGo (or Symbian) releases but as a developer you can start using them, testing them, providing feedback, filing bugs... and with this you will contribute to their readiness.

Conclusion: you still need a MeeGo Qt SDK to release your MeeGo ready software, but you can start your MeeGo development already now with the Qt Nokia SDK (targetting Maemo 5 and Symbian if you wish) since most of the Qt pieces are in place already.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

i got libdui compiling on my ubuntu laptop but i cant get mthemedaemon running but duitheme is installed ....


i dont understand, i want to test widget gallery and then try to compile duihome but i cant even run mthemedaemon ....

HEEEEEELP !!


PS : ubuntu 10.04, qt4.6.2, with build-essentials
PS2 : i'm a qt4/C++ dev so don't worry about telling me technical words, i know them ;-)

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

TheBotroo, you have more chances of getting feedback from the maintainers at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44562

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Hello!
Does anyone know if there will be an official update from Maemo 6 to MeeGo?

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Maemo 6 (just as Maemo 5) cannot be upgraded to MeeGo. Note that this is a different question as to whether MeeGo is installable on the device that will originally ship with Maemo 6.

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

UPDATE :

I downloaded contextkit and libcontentaction from maemo-af gitorious and got contextkit compiling but not libcontentaction

then i got libdui, duitheme, duicontrolpanel and duihome compiling on my ubuntu but not duicompositor because of contentaction missing...

and i can't run mthemedaemon, so all harmattan apps launched just shows me a blank screen


but there's some progress !!

Re: Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
 

Answering http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...teps-for-2010/

There is a post from me somewhere where I'm proposing this provisional name to be used here between us while the real name comes. And it's coming. Somewhere else I was saying that a dependency is the MeeGo Compliance Program, that is also coming.

Most N900 users haven't seen "deb" ever since they just go to Ovi Store or maemo.org Extras, via online or local application, and slect their apps based in one icon, a description, etc.

MeeGo-Harmattan users (let me insist, provisional name) will be exactly in the same situation: Ovi Store, meego.com community repository, installable online or via local app.

It will become clear to you when you see the MeeGo Handset UX next to the MeeGo-Harmattan UX, the MeeGo & MeeGo Handset API next to the MeeGo-Harmattan API. Then you can add to the mix the Maemo 5 UX and API and you will see that MeeGo-Harmattan is indeed much more MeeGo than Maemo. Sure, they share Debian packaging but really this means nothing to end users and actually not much to application developers using the MeeGo SDK and API.


To be honest, who should be really interested in this discussion at this point, before any MeeGo-Harmattan device, UX or SDK announced? Only a bunch of platform developers and people alike really understanding about architectures, APIs, packaging, developer tools, etc. I count less confused people in that sector. Thy are more like waiting for the real beef to come or thinking that whatever, it's all about marketing and what counts is the wide picture and the evolution of the whole thing into pure MeeGo.

The "confusion" can be also better understood under the context of a discontent for factors mentioned in your blog post. If Nokia would have said in the MeeGo launch at February that MeeGo-Harmattan will be officially supported in the N900 and there are details that will be sorted out many of the vocal 'confused' posters here would have just celebrated and moved forward. Yet the naming has nothing to do with the decision to support or not the N900 in future MeeGo commercial releases...

Which is coming.

Thanks for the help, but in this case it's not needed.