Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

UPDATE: The post on the website has been deleted, it must have been due to all the negative comments they got (fully deserved).

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I personally don't understand why people keep complaining about the phone having "STILL" a 800x480 screen. At 4" this resolution is STILL very good, in fact the DPI is higher than a 24" 1920x1200 widescreen monitor.
And if you're thinking "yah but iphone=960x640 zomg much better so this suxx!!!!oneone" then you should know that past a certain DPI your eye can't distinguish the increased pixel density (sharpness) anymore.
800x480 is great and so is the dual-core CPU. If this turns out to be true, it will be an excellent device. :)

To nirave: your apologies are not accepted. People who lie, cheat and mislead are the lowest in my book.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

1. Most normal people in Europe are asleep now (we like Linux, so we are not part of the normal category anyway)

2. You'll have to wait for Medfield for any Intel action to be *considered* at all, Moorestown is good for tablets at best

3. Somebody seems to have removed the page quickly. But not quickly enough. http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-photo-inside/

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

You should have made it very clear at beginning.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

If you have any feedback to Nokia designers get them to up the screen res!

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

The intention was not to cheat or mislead anyone; a simple mistake hence I attempted to correct in on Twitter prior to actually posting by saying concept, specs & xml.

Furthermore, I've actually come on here to make an apology to the 200 people who were viewing this page; the intention was never to cheat or do those things, it was merely said in the wrong way and I attempted to correct my mistake.

Thanks.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Yes, it's been taken down, not due to negative comments but in hindsight it should never have been hyped like it was; once again, a simple mistake that has been taken way out of proportion of the way it was intended.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I think that's fair enough, you got some info and a possible scoop.. there's very few if anyone on this thread that wouldn't have posted that on their own blog. Hyping it up was an error and you know that now, we move on :)

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Well, it might not be 100% real and we won't know until it's actually released. But if the information had some backbone (even a flimsy one) to it, then it's still more worthwhile than a blatant lie/rumour/speculation.

@ nirave - people just got disappointed due to such big anticipation. Keep posting any information that might be of interest to us. Readers can decide if it's real or not. I'm just glad to see at least a glimpse of what "might be".

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I will go as far as to say this;

the specs given to me were the ones listed and I personally hope even some of them are true as it could make for a cracking device.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

At the same level of zoom the legibility is clearer on a smaller device even if they fill the screen. I have moved from the HD2 to the Archos 5 Android and they are both weaker at capturing the entirety of things on the screen, legibly.

The DPI is reduced on a bigger screen.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

i doubt that nokia will put the latest generation chip in the first meego phone...

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

While I think Intel and Nokia might have talked about Meego a while, I don't think they would've started on X86 processors until after the Maemo6/Meego Hybrid device was already planned. It's like the N900, the hardware you see in it was planned way earlier than when it was released since that's how long it takes to create, test, and finally push a production device out.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Oh please. A simple mistake? Who are you trying to fool? (yet again). You run a website. Just like most publications on this planet you feed on naive people who wait with anticipation your overhyped and sensationalized stories. Do you think that all these people who waited for your "amazing leak" had nothing better to do?

You could at least have the decency to admit it was intentional.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Yes. Every Nokia employee who showed a photo of the prototype Fremantle device at Maemo Summit 2008 was sure to repeat a string of disclaimers: This is just a prototype. This isn't the final hardware. Remember, this is just a prototype. Pay no attention to the hardware behind this sample UI.

Then, a year later, the N900 turned out to look very much like that prototype we had been told to ignore.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Since there's not any one piece of hardware most geeks own, I don't see how this is a useful line of reasoning. Since "ANYTHING ELSE" is a much wider category, it's utterly unsurprising that more "generic geeks" are on ANYTHING ELSE than on ANY one particular device. That doesn't mean one can't say a device meant nothing "outside the geek community" -- if 1% of geeks have one and like it, and 0% of non-geeks have one and like it, then etuoyo's statement "N900 did not do anything to redress that outside the geek community." is perfectly valid.

It seems as though you're letting your bitterness blur your thinking. Just because you have learned to hate Nokia, doesn't mean much about the geek population in general, but even if Nokia had alienated all geeks who weren't pre-existing Nokia fanboys, that's still irrelevant to the statement you're replying to. The N900 simply hasn't helped Nokia's mindshare outside the geek community.


Besides, while I can't presume to speak for others, the only reason I'm a "Nokia geek" is because I'm a UNIX geek, and back when the Nokia tablets were the only viable pocket computer running a genuinely UNIX-like OS (the Zaurus was already dying, if not yet dead), I bought an N800. Fast-forward a couple years, and the N900 is one of exactly two such options today (Pandora, of course, is the other one, though I have no clue what their status is these days), so I'm still a "Nokia geek". When someone else is shipping better hardware with UNIX as a first-class citizen, I'll likely stop being a "Nokia geek".

So because desktop monitors have stagnated over the past decade, we must all be content with them?

And even if we assume desktop monitors are good enough, we use them at significantly greater distances than phones/tablets -- better than a desktop doesn't mean anything.


Yes. And, Mr. Jobs's lies notwithstanding, neither the iPhone 4 nor N900 is there yet. Every time I've seen someone do the math to justify the "retina display" tag, they slide from cycles/inch (where each cycle is a black/white line pair) to pixels/inch (where a pixel is either black or white, and you need two of them to make a cycle). Whether through incompetence or deception, that factor of two pushes the threshold of pixel-invisibility down somewhere around 600ppi, not 300ppi.

And really, people (by which I mean me ;)) were arguing for better PPI before the iPhone 4 came out. With the N900, we did get a somewhat increased PPI, although rather than being used to increase pixel count or to put a d-pad next to the display, it was wasted to shrink the device from the perfectly usable size of the N810. That makes 800x480/4" a step backward, when we should be moving forward...

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

this dpi rubbish is a joke. people have been getting along just fine with the really poor resolution and dpi of the iphone 3gs. why has dpi become important all of a sudden, is it the iphone 4 hype? I'm all for higher numbers but people are completely irrational with it, anybody viewing this page on an 900 should zoom out and switch to portrait mode then tell me why you would honestly need a higher dpi when you look at that text. in fact, I would simply ask for a larger screen because IMO that extra power required to render any extra pixels above WVGA on that size screen are not worth it. I would much rather have it put to better use.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

The same whole page of a complex reference PDF or webpage e.g front page of gsmarena.com can be read with full legibility on a iphone 4 in portrait vs a n900 or similar device which needs zooming in.

True or false?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

false because that same text is legible on the n900 if you take out a microscope, it is at a very, very uncomfortable reading size (i'm talking even smaller than the shadiest legal notice) like I said turn the n900 into portrait mode and zoom out the text is still readable if you concentrate on the text which is about 1mm tall but it becomes stupid to read text at that size.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

True. No, False! True. Could you please use it in a sentence.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Desktop monitors have not stagnated, it's just you who is not up to date. And if it were true, there's no contentment to talk about. You'd just use whatever you got because there's nothing better. There's no contentment involved.

Yes it means something. The point is that if you take desktop monitors and think about how nobody complains about the resolution being grainy (because it's not), you realize that a mobile device, with its superior DPI, is pretty awesome.

Interesting, because I don't recall making any calculations in my post..
Anyway, while technically you are correct to say that 800x480/4" is not an improvement, I was only pointing out that people shouldn't complain so much about the display.

Now I don't know about you, but I can't see the individual pixels on my N900 no matter how close I am. Come on folks, it's not THAT bad!

If I were you I'd be more worried if there were missing key HW features, such as the physical keyboard.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

what are you confused about.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

No. As I said, some of us have been agitating for better screens for a long time, and dissing the iPhone/iPhone3/iPhone3GS for its low resolution. If you've been fine with low resolution, that's great; DPI didn't matter to you, and there's no reason it should start mattering now. For those of us who have been aware of and concerned with DPI for years, it did matter, and still does.

The only thing "all of a sudden" about it is that you recently became aware that there are other people concerned about it. Maybe this was because of press coverage of the iPhone 4, but in any case, try not to confuse your

OK, I went to portrait mode, and zoomed so the page width was equal to the 480px screen width. Guess what? The letters are down in the 6px high range. If antialiasing were disabled at this size, they would be legible, but ugly; since they are anti-aliased, they're not ugly, but hard to read. That's "why you would honestly need a higher dpi when you look at that text" -- so you can have proper looking fonts and proper legibility at once.

For text, yes, it's arguably stupid to read at that size -- because text doesn't rely on "big-picture" view; splitting it over twice as many pages doesn't cost much. (Unless, of course, that text is in a badly designed website or a PDF, and you have to zoom out that far to make it through a line with out horizontal scrolling...) Now try technical diagrams -- datasheets and the like. There's a legitimate case for cramming these on the screen instead of scrolling.

Besides, you blame the difficulty in reading this on small physical size, assuming the pixel density to be sufficient, and then using that to claim we don't need more density. That's what we call begging the question, and it's a fallacy. To have an argument, you need to introduce some data to support your assumption that the text would not be more legible at twice the PPI.

Here's my evidence: see the screenshot...
Look at it on your desktop, where it will be large enough to read, and you can't claim the physical size is the problem (or open it in an image editor and scale it up to suit). Is it then easy to read? No, it's just as illegible at 10mm as it was at <1mm -- because the problem is pixelation, not size. If we had a 3.5" 1600x960 screen, it would be much more readable...
http://i32.tinypic.com/2hehl3a.png

Well over ten years ago, I was using a fairly ordinary CRT with 0.25mm dot pitch (which is measured at an angle, IIRC it was 0.21mm horizontal); now most desktop LCDs are 95-100ppi, or 0.25-0.27mm pitch horizontal. You're right; they've not stagnated, they've actually gone backwards. :rolleyes: But go on, I'm not up to date? Do explain...

You're right -- without spending thousands of dollars on one of the handful of T221s out there, I'm stuck with the low density, and am not content. I guess we agree on this, so I'm not sure why we're arguing this point...

But if we're not content, just stuck, then why in the world would "oh, it's better than that piece of trash you're stuck with on your desktop" mean it's good enough? Yes, it's better by a factor of 2-3, but it's also used at 1/2-1/3 the distance, more or less -- so if I'm not content with my desktop, I'll not be content with it, either...

But people do complain -- why do you think the T221 is so famous on the internet, and commands such a price when you can find one? It's not mere scarcity, a relic to put on the shelf and say "I have a rare monitor!" -- the people who can afford them buy them to use, because cheap monitors are grainy, and they do want higher resolution.



Yes, you made an assertion (that there's a maximum useful angular density), with an implication of relevance (which would mean that the iPhone 4, the N900, and/or the proposed 4" screen would be at or about that angular density at reasonable distances), with absolutely no evidence to support it.

I guess that's better than making and posting wrong calculations, but I can only assume you came to that conclusion from someone's calculations. So I addressed what seemed to me the most likely source -- of course, if you'd provided your own source, I wouldn't have had to guess.


Really? So when you open the "Clock & phase" page at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/, you see a homogeneous grey field, no matter how close you are? If so, then you should probably consider reading glasses...

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I don't know what everyone's making a big deal about the resolution for, 800X480 is perfectly fine with me, I'd still be very glad if the meego phone has all the other specs that was stated like the yummy dual core

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Um...so what was the news anyway? I stopped browsing on page 4 of this thread.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Regardless, for the purpose of this thread the screens of the previous Maemo devices would serve better as reference points. How do you find their ~4-inch, 800x480 screens?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

there is no fallacy whatsoever. I zoomed in to the image you posted it is still readable though not pretty but you completely missed the point. lets say we go to 600ppi there will be a uncomfortably small text size where even 600ppi suffers the same fate correct? so since you have already agree that a text size of <1 mm is daft what use is an even smaller achievable text size. you say diagrams, but surely they can scale too and they do. so at the end of the day it's about the pixel size being below a threshold and as I clearly stated "IMO" that threshold has already been passed to be of any practical use. what I would rather have is larger size and higher resolution not just dpi, it can remain the same or even reduce a little for all I care.

I know the internet loves car analogies so I'll give one, it's like complaining about the top speed of a good car, say a ferrari because there is a veyron yet you have a top speed limit of 70mph anyway. completely irrational IMO. The chase for higher ppi is exactly that, a chase for a higher number with no practical purpose. increase screen size and resolution, fine, but to aim for higher ppi to me seems daft.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Lets think about the phones/MID's I have owned at 800x480px over the past two years:

Xperia X1, HD, HD2, Touch Diamond 2, Touch Pro2, n900, TG01, n800, n810, Archos 5 Android. They range from 3"-5".

All in search of the perfect e-reading and surfing experience so I have a reasonably good idea of what I can be achieved at this resolution and when it becomes limiting.

I would prefer a 4" 960*640 screen over a 5" 800*480 any day, higher PPI REDUCE your need for larger screen sizes while increasing clarity. And given that we are in the mobile arena and need to use the device to make calls, the emphasis on PPI becomes even more apparent.

The 4.3" HD2 has the sweetest size form factor in my experience sans keyboard (but I would want one e.g slim n810 one and replace its D-pad with a trackpad). It could probably house a 4.5" screen by a pure glass face and that would be about my limit of comfort for a handset. 120.7 * 67 mm

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

funny you should mention that because that's exactly my search too I got a PRS-700 for reading now my samsung q1 was perfect for surfing but battery life was poor so now I have a n900 too for that. That is exactly what I'm trying to say ppi reduces the need for a larger screen but above a threshold what use is it if the text size is now too small to read?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I have several pocketable UMPC's as well but as you said the battery life is poor at 5 hrs max and they are rather heavy. And apart from one item I own they could never make it as handsets.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

ppi is not a necessarily a good comparator in itself

a 1 inch 800x480 screen has an extremely high ppi but is of little use(for a mobile device anyway)

something like the ipad has a 10 inch screen with 1024x768 with a comparatively low ppi, but is quite useful to many nonetheless.

throwaway the ppi

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

True, it needs context

So PPI is a useful discriminator in context.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

yes, only in the context of similar sceen size and human readability, IMO.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I'm not extremly keen about a high resolution, the N900 is fine for me. But hey, where would we be if we didn't improve our technics?
I remeber in the article aubout the N8's camera they said, they put a 12MP instead of 8MP camera because they wanted to take a step foreward. Thats what I like. If we can do it, why don't we just do it?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Yeah... ultra high ppi doesn't magically enhance your eyesight so you can read small prints from few feet away.. but it does render the detail there for the occasional time you want to eyeball something rather than zoom it close.

Well that brings another point... a quick and intuitive document manipulation system (multitouch gestures, etc) works wonder to lessen the limitations of small screens\low ppi.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

High MP on a handheld (limited screen size, processing power, throughput, storage, etc) may become a burden then an advantage...

It may take longer to process, slower to store, slower to share, eats more of your limited storage, etc... to what cause? So you can make larger prints from your pictures?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

But still, if we want our phone cameras to replace the digicam someday, at least 12 MP is needed. Of course other things like better objective is more important. We have yet not by far reached the top, not in Megapixels, nor in dpi. Phones and connections will get faster, storage space will grow.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

how many 68x50cm photos or quad-hd-tvs you have?

e: not even speaking about how possible it is to manufacture a lens that can draw something useful to 12mpix sensor that is smaller than your nail. (compare it to film negative or similar....)

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Im more than happy with 5MP camera in my mobile phone, that's the sweet spot for me. What I would like however is better and faster image processing.

The 4 row keyboard would be nice though, Im fed up with this blue arrow...

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

cmon stop cry like a boy ;) are you people always read everything on the internet as true facts? if so people really are naive.

there are plenty of liers out tnere.

btw. about the rumored spec. Quilcom cpu on a Nokia phone hmmm I dont thinnk so, as far as i know nokia is using texas. also 1 qb ram probadly false