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-   -   N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61616)

wmarone 2010-10-05 20:53
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shady (Post 834170)
about the FAT32 thing ... i dont get why SDXC couldnt be supported. up to 2TB per partition .. is it purely linux, cuz it doesnt seem like its a table allocation problem.
The "official" file system for SDXC is exFAT, which Microsoft wrote without any hint of data security and riddled with software patents. At this rate there will likely never be an exFAT driver integrated into the kernel and MS is being extremely controlling regarding the specs and who can make and use exFAT drivers.

Basically MS got the SD consortium to pull a fast one on every non-Windows user, and now Linux is a second-rate OS in the world of mobile memory cards.

maxximuscool 2010-10-05 20:54
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
If N9 is still a cortext A8 and 512MB ram then I will pass :)

I'm not going to buy a device that soon will be outdated since A9 is ready to be in the production line already. So i'll wait.. May be Intel MeeGo instead of Nokia MeeNO..

allnameswereout 2010-10-05 21:05
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shady (Post 834170)
[....]
about the FAT32 thing ... i dont get why SDXC couldnt be supported. up to 2TB per partition .. is it purely linux, cuz it doesnt seem like its a table allocation problem.
Antilles already explained this.

SDXC opted for Microsoft's proprietary ExFAT as default filesystem, so devices with which you can use a SDXC card have to support r/w support for ExFAT. Only then do they support the SDXC standard.

Hence, if you just keep your card inside your 'N9' and its formatted say Ext3FS nothing is wrong. If you stick the card in your Linux laptop it will also work. But when you stick it in anything else (a digital camera, a Windows machine, a Mac machine) it won't work since these devices cannot read/write Ext3FS.

Theres some hope here 'n there tho

Quote:
Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 (both x86 and x64) users can add support for exFAT by installing an update from Microsoft.[1] An experimental, open source Linux kernel module that supports the reading of exFAT files is currently under development.[5] A FUSE-based full-featured implementation is currently in beta status.[6] A proprietary, read/write solution, licensed and derived from the Microsoft exFAT implementation, is available for Android, Linux and other operating systems from Tuxera.[7] A proprietary, full-featured implementation—XCFiles—is available from Datalight.[8] A third party open source driver is available for DOS.[9]
(Source)

Unfortunately a lousy solution since it all won't work by default which equals to the consumer won't eat our dogfood but will eat Microsoft's proprietary ExFAT crap.

jcompagner 2010-10-06 14:22
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
i would be satisfied with N900*2..
And then the 32GB flash mem doesnt have to follow the *2 rule... ( i am fine with 32GB on board with a SDHC, SDXC would be nice but i guess that exFat problem will not help..)

so,
dual core,
512MB ram (i think that would work fine for me looking to my current ram usage, 256 is just to little)
512MB rootfs instead of that 256MB but 1.3 did fix most of the problems for me in this area, but the larger this area is the faster the phone because this is the fastest flash there is on the N900..

But dual core is for me a must, the N900 is sometimes just to slow because i do multiply things at the same time... Don't think i will buy the N9 if it is still a A8 on 1Ghz, that wont be much faster then my N900 on 900Mhz.... (or the ram must do a lot)

IsaacDFP 2010-10-06 14:58
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Nokia wouldn't use the same A8 on the N9... They must've learn how mad and disappointed we were back in the days with the N97, they should know we will be enraged if they repeat the same mistake... The N9 is MEANT to go with the A9... Listen Up Nokia!

And also, for the Rootfs storage, I know Nokia must've been very involved within the Brainstorming idea around it, they know we need way more than 256mb

tissot 2010-10-06 15:01
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacDFP (Post 834814)
Nokia wouldn't use the same A8 on the N9... They must've learn how mad and disappointed we were back in the days with the N97, they should know we will be enraged if they repeat the same mistake... The N9 is MEANT to go with the A9... Listen Up Nokia!

And also, for the Rootfs storage, I know Nokia must've been very involved within the Brainstorming idea around it, they know we need way more than 256mb
Well it for sure isn't the same A8 core. Probably OMAP36xx.

sophocha 2010-10-06 15:02
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Just wait for 4-5 years and your dream will come true.I can still remember my 486 processor....technology is advancing fast

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBootroo (Post 833916)
my dream :

1.2Ghz A9 dual core processor, or even Morrestone, or (let be fool) quad core A15 at 2.0 ghz
1 ou 2Gb real RAM (not 256 mb + swap)
SGX450 graphics
64gb internal memory
microCD slot supporting new XDHC card (up to 128 GB !!)
MeeGo tweaked by nokia (with nokia tools : ovi...)
4.1" Resisitive but multitouch screen (like Stantum one) in 1280x720x32bit CBD
bluetooth 4.0
open GL 4.1
3G, 3G+ and 4G
Wifi N
IR (for some good remote control apps)
frontal 2mp webcam
rear full HD camera (at least 8MPx)
full QWERTY keyboard witt spaced keys (as on proto)
no button or holes on the face, a full black flat surface
alu casing, or baby skin (you know, this soft plastic, like on 5800's rear)
dolby surrond speakers
micro hdmi, micro usb (with charging, host, and OTG), and Jack 3.5
quick access physical keys for power, +/- and camera
a cache for the rear camera with auto on function
xenon flash + led one for some cases (like prolunged video taking or even torch app)
double sim support
removable 4000Mah lithium ion battery
design alliance between N9 proto and second nokia U project draft (http://www.journal-du-mobile.com/wp-...ty-nokia-2.jpg) because i like the design and the speakers holes with usb dissimulated in.


EDIT: and i forgotten : gorilla glass screen, to be scratch proof and not need an ugly screen protection



PLEASE DO IT NOKIA, i would even pay 800$ for it if it exists...

shadowjk 2010-10-06 15:04
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Most of stutter during multitasking is due to IO not CPU, so you definitely want more ram before dual core cpu for multitasking..

IsaacDFP 2010-10-06 15:04
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Why is everybody ignoring my dream of releasing the Nokia Morph... :(

IsaacDFP 2010-10-06 15:17
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
But still for some reason, I tend to think the N9 won't see the day of light with the A9 inside... It is still too recent. For exemple:
OMAP4440 - 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP
There is no public need for all that power just yet...
"The board itself measures 4.0 x 4.5 inches and includes not only the dual-core OMAP4 chip but 1GB of RAM and a plethora of connectivity. There’s WiFi and Bluetooth, HDMI capable of 1080p HD video, DVI, 10/100 ethernet and USB 2.0 (two Host, one OTG); you also get an SD/MMC memory card slot, serial port and audio in/out, along with various other expansion connectors."
I think the N9 would be nice enough AT LEAST with:
OMAP3640 - 1 GHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP
What do you guys think?

sjgadsby 2010-10-06 15:20
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allnameswereout (Post 834185)
Unfortunately a lousy solution since it all won't work by default which equals to the consumer won't eat our dogfood but will eat Microsoft's proprietary ExFAT crap.
Tuxera specifically mentions MeeGo on their exFAT for Embedded Systems page. The language related to MeeGo on that page has been toned down, but as recently as June, the page proudly proclaimed MeeGo as a licensee alongside Android.

That doesn't imply anything for the N9, of course, but there may be some MeeGo devices at some point that ship with exFAT support enabled out of the box.

wmarone 2010-10-06 15:48
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 834832)
Tuxera specifically mentions MeeGo on their exFAT for Embedded Systems page. The language related to MeeGo on that page has been toned down, but as recently as June, the page proudly proclaimed MeeGo as a licensee alongside Android.
Which is nonsensical as nothing in MeeGo is closed source. At best it is "compatible" which isn't hard if you load up as a kernel module.

Quote:
That doesn't imply anything for the N9, of course, but there may be some MeeGo devices at some point that ship with exFAT support enabled out of the box.
Probably. Still a bunch of BS that MS managed to basically force their proprietary, patent riddled file system on a standard.

Lullen 2010-10-06 16:26
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacDFP (Post 834829)
But still for some reason, I tend to think the N9 won't see the day of light with the A9 inside... It is still too recent. For exemple:
OMAP4440 - 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP
There is no public need for all that power just yet...
"The board itself measures 4.0 x 4.5 inches and includes not only the dual-core OMAP4 chip but 1GB of RAM and a plethora of connectivity. There’s WiFi and Bluetooth, HDMI capable of 1080p HD video, DVI, 10/100 ethernet and USB 2.0 (two Host, one OTG); you also get an SD/MMC memory card slot, serial port and audio in/out, along with various other expansion connectors."
I think the N9 would be nice enough AT LEAST with:
OMAP3640 - 1 GHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP
What do you guys think?
There is always need for more power! The thing with N9 is that it is a mobile computer wich mean it should do what your laptop can do but on a smaller screen. I would love to have the N9 as my only computer as I do not play any games, just websites, movies, and social stuff. And for that you need a bit more power then the N9 will have, so the need is there.

If Nokia releases N9 with A8 and one month later the A9, with better preformance and less power consuming, comes it will look bad. With that I did not say I'm not going to buy it if it comes with A8, it will take more then that to make me stay away from that piece of awesomeness.

javispedro 2010-10-06 16:39
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Sigh. Is history always doomed to repeat itself, gentleman?

(See discussions -- even my own, back when I still had some optimism:) -- about the N900 CPU back when it was in the making).

Somebody will ALWAYS release something better The DAY after the N900+1 comes. You can count on that. If it doesn't happen, humanity is doomed.

kd_alex 2010-10-06 16:48
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 834876)
Somebody will ALWAYS release something better The DAY after the N900+1 comes. You can count on that. If it doesn't happen, humanity is doomed.
Word! If I always waited for the latest and greatest I would never buy anything.

jcompagner 2010-10-06 17:55
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowjk (Post 834819)
Most of stutter during multitasking is due to IO not CPU, so you definitely want more ram before dual core cpu for multitasking..
this is not true, conky or other process managers are showing the cpu usage when i notice it is very busy. So for me it is really the cpu where i wait for.

Just use FeedingIt rss feeder, let it sync all the feeds. And then start doing something else. It is just crunching the cpu.

Bratag 2010-10-06 18:00
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcompagner (Post 834921)
this is not true, conky or other process managers are showing the cpu usage when i notice it is very busy. So for me it is really the cpu where i wait for.

Just use FeedingIt rss feeder, let it sync all the feeds. And then start doing something else. It is just crunching the cpu.
Considering this

a) FeedintIt is a heavy IO use app because its downloading to local storage. You have both Network and Disk IO.

b) IO heavy in most cases = cpu heavy.

IsaacDFP 2010-10-06 18:08
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lullen (Post 834871)
There is always need for more power!
Of course there is always need for everything and anything, but i really meant it more as in "public"/general need...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lullen (Post 834871)
I do not play any games, just websites, movies, and social stuff. And for that you need a bit more power then the N9 will have, so the need is there.
I feel you, I am the same, if data plans from TelCos were more flexible (i need minimum about 100gb per month...), i wouldnt have the need for a computer. Unfortunately, people like you and me represent a very small percentage of the general customers, so a corporation wouldn't really see the point in satisfying 2-3% of its clients by risking loss in the market. :(
But dont get me wrong, im still hoping and wishing the N9 comes with the A9

Lullen 2010-10-06 18:57
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kd_alex (Post 834884)
Word! If I always waited for the latest and greatest I would never buy anything.
Then you never have the latest and greatest...? If you always want the latest and greatest you always buy the latest and greatest when it comes out. Am I right?

And by the way I understand all those waiting for the A9 wich will probebly be out at max 2month after the N9. It is still 150% faster then the A8 and 2x better then SGX530. That is not a small difference! With that performance I guess even the laggy maemo 5 will be lightning fast!

But really, if the N9 does not have A9 who would really go to android to get it? After having a N900 for 6 months I will never buy an android phone :)

egoshin 2010-10-06 20:33
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcompagner (Post 834921)
this is not true, conky or other process managers are showing the cpu usage when i notice it is very busy.
But is not 100%, right? The bottleneck is flash IO bandwidth.

Quote:
Just use FeedingIt rss feeder, let it sync all the feeds. And then start doing something else. It is just crunching the cpu.
It is always possible to write software which eats all CPU resource and Microsoft proved that for sure.

But for generic fast device response the bottleneck should be widened.

maxximuscool 2010-10-06 21:16
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
If N9 doesn't get Dual Core Arm and more than than 512MB, more flash than 512MB then I will not get the N9.

End of story. Game Over.

If Nokia wants to make a mark in the modern smartphone computing market then Nokia has to take a dive. Apple did that with their 3GS back in 2007. The hardware was the main factor to attract geeks like us and people who would want to do things faster than waiting 10seconds for a task to load.

Lullen 2010-10-06 21:19
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
So you want a bad OS instead of a almost top notch cpu? I do not really get your thinking here...

wmarone 2010-10-06 21:25
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
I missed this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxximuscool (Post 835097)
If N9 doesn't get Dual Core Arm and more than than 512MB, more flash than 512MB then I will not get the N9.
More than 512MB, sure. A9? I doubt it. I doubt anyone will have A9 based phones for some time.

Quote:
Apple did that with their 3GS back in 2007. The hardware was the main factor to attract geeks like us and people who would want to do things faster than waiting 10seconds for a task to load.
Err, you sure? The 3Gs came out ~3 months before the N900 was announced and had virtually identical hardware. And no, Apple does not attract "geeks like us," they don't want us because we do things like jailbreak the devices and escape their walled garden. And sure, it's easy to load a task quick when you can only have one task running at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lullen (Post 835099)
So you want a bad OS instead of a almost top notch cpu? I do not really get your thinking here...
What's a bad OS? I wouldn't say Maemo (5/6) is a bad OS, it's just not optimized for the flavor-of-the-month iPhone crowd. In terms of letting me do what I want, it has no equal.

On the other hand, an A9 backing Windows Phone 7 (or iOS) would be the biggest waste of silicon I could think of, since the OS deliberately limits what you can do with it.

Venemo 2010-10-06 22:28
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 835102)
What's a bad OS? I wouldn't say Maemo (5/6) is a bad OS, it's just not optimized for the flavor-of-the-month iPhone crowd. In terms of letting me do what I want, it has no equal.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 835102)
On the other hand, an A9 backing Windows Phone 7 (or iOS) would be the biggest waste of silicon I could think of
Yeah, I completely agree with this, too! :)

theonelaw 2010-10-07 01:12
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allnameswereout (Post 834185)
Antilles already explained this.

SDXC opted for Microsoft's proprietary ExFAT as default filesystem, so devices with which you can use a SDXC card have to support r/w support for ExFAT. Only then do they support the SDXC standard.

Hence, if you just keep your card inside your 'N9' and its formatted say Ext3FS nothing is wrong. If you stick the card in your Linux laptop it will also work. But when you stick it in anything else (a digital camera, a Windows machine, a Mac machine) it won't work since these devices cannot read/write Ext3FS.

Theres some hope here 'n there tho

(Source)

Unfortunately a lousy solution since it all won't work by default which equals to the consumer won't eat our dogfood but will eat Microsoft's proprietary ExFAT crap.
Just to clarify a bit,
many of us would hope the sd card, be it hc or xc,
would be mostly useful only as a permanent local storage
rather than for swapping in and out for transferring data.
(I thought that's why they invented wifi/bluetooth/usb ports :D)
This is only reasonable, of course, if the USB functionality exists
for external storage requirements. (which n900 lacks)

The inability to (casually) use it in a m$ environment I regard as a
highly desirable security feature - No one could simply pop the
sd card out and read it in their wincrap device.
I would probably (as suggested here) format ext3 and only ever plan on
popping it into my other linux machines on the rare occasion of firing up a new test-boot system or cleanup...

Lullen 2010-10-07 09:05
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 835102)

What's a bad OS? I wouldn't say Maemo (5/6) is a bad OS, it's just not optimized for the flavor-of-the-month iPhone crowd. In terms of letting me do what I want, it has no equal.
I ment does he really want android(bad os) instead of a almost top notch cpu(1Ghz A8). I have tried android a few times and I can not understand why it is sooooo much better then symbian. Maemo6 vs android is like comparing win98 to win7 :) (with the assumption that maemo6 is like maemo5 but less laggy and better phone stuff)

pelago 2010-10-07 09:10
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theonelaw (Post 835189)
Just to clarify a bit,
many of us would hope the sd card, be it hc or xc,
would be mostly useful only as a permanent local storage
rather than for swapping in and out for transferring data.
It's worth remembering that when plugging the device into a host PC and mounting the internal storage as a Mass Storage Class device, the host OS will need to understand the filesystem on the card. So the filesystem isn't only of importance to internal mobile device operations.

shadowjk 2010-10-07 10:22
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcompagner (Post 834921)
this is not true, conky or other process managers are showing the cpu usage when i notice it is very busy. So for me it is really the cpu where i wait for.

Just use FeedingIt rss feeder, let it sync all the feeds. And then start doing something else. It is just crunching the cpu.

The WA value is "Cpu is idle because it's waiting on IO to deliver data or code to execute". So it should be treated as idle for this purpose.

Of course, if one process is executing something small at 100%, you wont notice the WA value going up. In that case, something like top running over ssh with 1s refresh to your pc's display and checking that display for processes with "D" in their status column finds all the processes stuck waiting on IO..

allnameswereout 2010-10-09 11:21
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelago (Post 835249)
It's worth remembering that when plugging the device into a host PC and mounting the internal storage as a Mass Storage Class device, the host OS will need to understand the filesystem on the card. So the filesystem isn't only of importance to internal mobile device operations.
Even though other OSes can achieve read-only support of Ext2FS/Ext3FS these drivers aren't installed by default on Windows and many other devices. Also note Ext3FS is a journaling FS. This might not be desirable on a SD card.

noipv4 2010-10-13 11:48
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Nokia to launch Meego in 2011
http://news.ciol.com/News/News/News-...2011/142242/0/

shady 2010-10-13 13:31
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
^ just wait for http://conference2010.meego.com/ no blog speculation based on intels information. nokia hasnt said anything about meego ... all they talk about is sym3

theflew 2010-10-13 13:45
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 834816)
Well it for sure isn't the same A8 core. Probably OMAP36xx.
I wonder if they'll mate it to an external GPU like the N8? I would image the N9 will have HDMI out and the OMAP36XX series isn't capable of that.

theflew 2010-10-13 13:52
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noipv4 (Post 840001)
I don't think this means much since we know the N9 isn't running Meego proper.

tissot 2010-10-13 16:35
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflew (Post 840081)
I wonder if they'll mate it to an external GPU like the N8? I would image the N9 will have HDMI out and the OMAP36XX series isn't capable of that.
Well Droid X got OMAP3630 and HDMI out.

wmarone 2010-10-13 16:39
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 840205)
Well Droid X got OMAP3630 and HDMI out.
Not having used a Droid X but having seen a BeagleBoard, I suspect that when you activate the HDMI it disables the onboard display. I doubt they'll mate it to an external GPU due to the fact that the OMAP36xx has a decent onboard GPU, whereas most ARM11 chips (save the Tegra) don't.

phr 2010-10-27 00:18
Re: N9 technical specifications appeared rumoured
 
Elop announced that Nokia's first Meego device won't be til 2011.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/s...-a-2011-event/

It's spun other ways on other different sites.


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