Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

It's nothing "wrong with starting a post" (thread) or "posting replies". I was talking about how & where you did it. No need for this: :mad: for example and may be better in "Offtopic" (no pun intended)...

I've got no problem with people sharing their opinions here.
But (as mentioned in this thread by others):

• maemo.org is not related with Nokia, hence the name. No responsable Nokia employees listening here.

• No user in this forum is responsable for Nokia's fails.

• This has been, and may will be again, a place for constructive exchange between people trying to learn or at least intend to put a little effort into their handset to maximize their pleasure. Lately it's getting more and more a place to whine or rant.

• Point 3 (== people like you, no pun intended again) results in a less effective way getting informed or advised, as well as informing etc. The whole forum got spamed with threads like this one, while good things (apps, tutorials, news) drown in this crowd of spam. See the "Active Topics" at the right...:(

Cheers, I'm off.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

This community amazes me sometimes...

Worst thing about this whole scenario is that by working away, spending time and money to fix some bugs etc Nokia has brought more hate their way.

Sure, I'd love to see a flash update, and a load of other major features updated in this release, but I'm not disappointed they're not in there. As said before disappointment can only come after an expectation has not been met. I was happy with my phone when I got it, any improvement from there is a bonus to me, and another model coming out with better/equal features doesn't magically make my phone unable to do the things it used to.

A lot of the positive feedback on the new update cites that their phones now seem more responsive and quicker. Should that update have waited 3/6/infinite months until flash, maps etc were ready?

I can't comment on PR1.3 yet as I've yet to see it pop up for an OTA update (I'm in the UK), which just means, like with 1.2, I'll get to see all the problems the eager upgraders have, and how to avoid them. In fact it was a good couple of months after 1.2 that I did eventually do the upgrade, and then only because an app had been improved and the new version needed 1.2

Imagine that: upgrading because there was a reason to and not because the number was bigger..

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

i didnt install PR 1.3 yet. The installation of Ovi took more than 5 Min on my PC, so i cancelled it. (yeah, im VERY bad at this "waiting" thingie or whatever you call it) And I obviously have to use Ovi update.

Oh, and one thing Nokia DID announce was native multiboot.
I didnt read a thing about that AFTER the release of 1.3.
BTW, does anyone has a link or something for the release notes? So I can decide if i may want to install PR 1.3. (Oh, and i dont mean the Release Notes saying "the device now feels faster" or stuff like that. I mean the REAL thing like "this and that has been change in this way")

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

A man after my own heart.

Incidentally, how many of the 'Disappoint' posters do you reckon would have installed the update anyway if they'd known exactly what it did.

I'm guessing 100%...

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Why?

When? I've never heard about that. What would "native" multiboot be, anyway, according to your definition?

What they said was that PR 1.3 would remove the requirement for temporarily flashing the kernel when dual-booting into MeeGo, which basically meant you needed the N900 attached to a PC via USB each time you wanted to start MeeGo. That's what they said, and that's what they delivered. It works, the video's online.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

yea i thought 1.3 would make email widget work with nokia messaging but sadly it isnt.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

no, they didn't.

there was one blog post which said multiboot would be made easier with 1.3 (basically a few kexec patches to the kernel), and the press took that statement and totally blew it out of proportion.

nokia never announced "native" multiboot, since they support only one OS officially (Fremantle aka Maemo5).

edit: i should remember to refresh a thread before answering ;)

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Well, at least Nokia could take some time to take care of the bigger bugs, that's something that a consumer can EXPECT and it's not something that the maemo community should fix.
I am so surprised (and disappointed) that the poor support for handsfree devices is still a fact. It's quite a bunch of car handsfree's that sound so terribly bad that you hardly can hear anything. Aqustic feedback, robotic voice, cutouts and dropped connections (ie useless). That's a BASIC functionality that just should WORK. The most cheap phones handles these bluetooth features better than the expensive n900.

BTW, Don't bash the OP! Even if one doesn't agree completely, he has the right to be angry.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Oh, another thing, Andre Klapper's job at bugs.maemo.org seems primarily be to close bug reports rather than forwarding them to Nokia for thorough investigation.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

not here, this is NOT a nokia support forum. he can be angry over at forum.nokia.com all he wants.

and you base that on what, exactly?
IMO he does a great job at forwarding and escalating important and not-so-important bugs.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Oh, so you mean we are not supposed to have any negative thoughts on the device software developed by Nokia whatsover, HERE at talk.maemo.org? Well, that sound's really open minded and the way to keep an objective view on the development.

Don't get me wrong, I love the N900, maemo and the complete concept, but if something is bad it should be discussed, not hushed.

I have two bug reports (I wasn't the original reporter) where one was closed as late as this week. It's the device responsiveness (choppy sound in several apps) when the screen is dimming. The other were about the bluetooth problems I mentioned where the decision was to close the common bug report and that everyone should open a separate bug of their own for each and every device with these problems.
Well, since these reports sounded so similar for several reports, why doesn't nokia buy at least ONE of them and see for themselves. How hard can that be?

BTW, I don't buy the argument that we should expect a little bugginess and half-assed features because the N900 is in a different segment and considered as an "open experiment". It's not, it's a product like any other and should be supported like one.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Chances are that if it's a bug that effects only a couple of units and not all units (including the ones they have themselves) then it's either.

a) something the user did (e.g. install something they shouldn't have which is causing the problem). This means there's nothing Nokia can do about it.

or

b) a hardware defect. This means the device should be replaced.

If it's a problem with the OS then it would show up in the unit they are using for tests themselves since it would show up in all devices theoretically. So there would be no point in buying one of these problematic units.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

That's where you are wrong.
Video calling came with PR 1.2.

Supported with Skype and a bunch of other IM services.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

a) It's still there on a clean device, and I think I know how to pair a bluetooth device.
b) In such case the n900 manufacturing yield is not the best.

Well, maybe you know more than me what regression test strategies they use at nokia, but if they are testing their bluetooth stack on just a few devices, they are *****ic. The bluetooth standard may not be interpreted in the same way for all products like the ones from Nokia (or even the specific n900 development team at nokia). It was not a specific brand or device that failed in this regard.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

since this thread is full of bad analogies let me join.

mommy and daddy apple have some money saved. on xmas and bday's baby iphone gets some new pants and shoes. mommy and daddy android have a (well quite a few) babies and they do the same.

mommy and daddy nokia have a baby called the n900. he had lots of holes in his shoes and pants. occasionally his parents sow up his jeans and patch his shoes. yes he has pants and shoes but he grows up wondering why the other parents buy their kids new cloths while his are all full of stitches and patches.

see I told you it would be bad. point is people payed good money for the n900 and that is a bit like a hand shake. true nowhere in writing does it say you are entitled to this or that....but if you were a parent and you could buy your kid some new stuff, wouldn't you?

it is all about expectations and expectations are set in large part by what competition are providing for like priced goods. the "oh I was never explicitly promised anything" argument while technically correct is really pretty lame.

you payed $500 or more for a device and similar priced devices from the competition get all sorts of new features on a routine basis? and you expect people not to express disapointment? common now...

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I know that Nokia is relatively small compared to Google. I also knw that there are a million google devices compared to just one Maemo 5 device. I also know that symbian is Nokia's bread and butter (and meego should be getting some of that bread in future) and Nokia does not care about the N900.

However, despite that I don't understand why we wait 6 months for a few changes and no new futures. On the other hand each android update within the same time cycle (so I have heard) introduces so much new and different.

What is the logic waiting 6 months to make a few changes and leave so many dissapointed? If you are not going to make huge changes is it not better to have many small updates regularly? For example if a bug is fixed introduce an update immediately. If you make a slight improvement in modest introduce it immediately. Why gather everything in one update every 6 months? Is this just a Nokia way?

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

i've had this device about a year now and its a good phone or what ever you want to call it,but the support from nokia is pants and people should be allowed to complain if they want to with out getting abuse. waiting a year for things to be fix rhat should have worked out of the box is not acceptable For a device costing so much.Nokia are POO! :)

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

negative thoughts and trying to release pressure are two different things.
i said there's no point being angry here. i welcome any well laid-out thoughts about the negative issues of PR 1.3, but the original post is just an angry rant.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Quite on the contrary. Enthusiasts at t.m.o. are expected to be the most demanding consumers and should be even more critical about various aspects of the whole Maemo platform than others. But in a constructive way. There's really absolutely no use in 739 people complaining about "no flash 10" when

a) Nokia already stated months ago that it will not come
b) the complaints don't help anyone
c) the complaints have been made over and over again.

This community can collect information and make it available. Some of the collected information may be helpful in finding solutions. Complaints aren't.

Same with things like 3G video calls and voice dialling and turn by turn navigation... I myself am unhappy with some of these things missing, but I wouldn't see the point of telling this to a community over and over again. Everybody knows it, don't they? (In fact, I did complain about each of these issues. But I don't see a point in doing it over and over again, especially now that most of the important things are solved.)

I come here because I find solutions to these problems, like fMMS and espeak caller and Crochik MyContacts and the custom ringtones etc etc etc... Which of course means you need to talk about the problems before, then solve them. But only whining and never contributing anything that other members of this community (like me) could find helpful? Please make people go to a Nokia site for that. After all, it's Nokia they are complaining about.



My personal experience is that the bug system they set up for Maemo works far better than whatever you may have for other consumer products. You have to "expect a little bugginess and half-assed features" not because of the open nature and the market segment of the N900, but because it's an electronic product. God, even my old Sony DVD player has bugs. Real software bugs. The difference is that there's no bug tracker where I could report them, get feedback from other users, have a bug team triage bugs and maybe (!) even a Sony developer come by and ask further questions to finally find a solution.

What you're complaining about is that not all bugs are FIXED. I think that's normal and cannot be any other way. Some bugs just aren't important enough (commercially speaking), others would require a re-write of 50% of the underlying code, maybe there's even some they don't find the reason for. There'll never be bug free software. But the N900 is the only device I use where I can describe bugs, get feedback and will eventually be told if they're gonna work on the problem or not. With all other products I own, I need to write to a "customer service" and get a boilerplate text as a reply... from someone who doesn't even know the product.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

SubCore: I read hist post more carefully and you're right. He's letting out steam alright.
Nevertheless, featurewise I can agree the PR1.3 was a disappointment. Since long I've given up on the turn-by-turn and voice nav, but missing out on the flash upgrade outdates the otherwise great browser.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I don't see what everyone is complaining about. I wiped my N900 and flashed PR 1.3 and eMMC on top of it. After booting, my N900 was almost as fast (stock) as it was overclocked and tweaked on PR 1.2. I don't know if they got updated drivers from TI/PowerVR, but the tearing has reduced to almost nothing. After overclock/swappolube/various tweaks, its actually impressive how fast it is.

No flash 10, so what? Is that REALLY a dealbreaker for some people? What does flash 10 offer than ~9.4 doesn't, besides GPU acceleration on a 'weak' GPU and a weak battery?

No turn by turn navigation? Buy Sygic.

No video call support? Skype. Skype. And more Skype.

Point is, Nokia hadn't promised Flash 10. In fact, they explicitly said it would NOT be made available 'officially'. If someone manages to port it and get it working down the road, who really cares? I honestly haven't thought of an instance where I thought "well *****, I *require* flash 10. on my phone. right now.".

Just my two bits.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Did You read ANY posts about what to expect from PR 1.3???

It was supposed to bring fixes, not features...!

It's been said over and over again...

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Did you read any about what not to expect?

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I can see that alot are confused with two totally destinct terms
Accept and Expect.

You are accepting an update that fixed some bugs, and full of others?
I am expecting an update with simple amusing features

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I voted no, because there are no partial options. I expected fixes, and it had fixes, so, that's fine. However, I expected it to address more pressing issues.

A hundred fixes and of those only about 4 or so actually affected me, and 2 of them already had fixes. I guess I expected things like alarm issues to supersede typos and minor cosmetic fixes.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Exactly,
I am an ordinary user, when i wait for a major release, i shouldn't expect bug fixes which is supposed to be expected without really revealing that i do, yet, personal expectation is something personal.
you dont wait for a promise to have couple of extra themes, navigation turn by turn for free just like my old E71

Dear N900 holders we shared in birth of Nokia's new generation of smart phones, right?
think about it

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I didn't say smart phones, I said phones. Nokia to date have released over 420 phones since 1982 when they launched their Mobira Senator and the following range of Mobira phones. Admittedly it is not in the thousands, I overestimated.

Regardless, my point was nothing to do with that... just that Nokia's ranking above iPhone is based on MANY current phones (from what I can gather, over 100 at the present time) being sold around the world all the time, as opposed to JUST the iPhone range (just 5/6 versions ever? I forget exactly, but only 2 of those are actively on sale right now)

Nokia doesn't have any single phone model/model variant which comes close to the iPhone's sales.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I dont think it's unreasonable to expect that nokia would, at the very least, make maps with turn by turn guidance available to us n900 users... I'm not even saying that it needs to be given to us for free, just offered. I personally think sygic is **** and it has never worked flawlessly for me.

I rely on my phone for so much and one of the biggest features is that of gps. kills me that yet again, we are left out in the cold with such a capable device that is rendered useless in so many ways

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I'd hardly call lack of voice navigation a "killed" device. If I had it I wouldn't use it. N900 makes for a poor in-car navigation compared to dedicated devices, so I went ahead and installed one of those. Cheap, too, considering the price of an N900.

Besides, I can never navigate by voice only. I drive a 3-liter and by the time it says "ding, in 100 meters" I'm already passing the intersection if I'm passing someone or simply in a hurry. Voice synchronizes poorly if one doesn't drive at a constant speed. I need to visually confirm the route and the glaring N900 screen and low volume makes it hard.

These days a dedicated PNA sells for 1/8 the price of an N900, they're smaller, have better battery life and better software. And louder speaker (if not on FM). And dedicated car grips.

Personally, I moved for the in-dash touch solution. It feels more natural for the phone to be an addition to the car system not the other way around.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

EXACTLY my point! NO ONE forced you or anyone else to buy the phone. No one shoved it down your throat. Did you not know what you were buying at the time???? It didn't have turn by turn voice navigation, and it didn't have Flash 10.1, and it didn't have MMS, etc..... So why are you expecting updates to correct these short comings?????? Did they some how say buy the N900 and we'll give you X, Y, and Z afterwards?

And yes, video calling works for 3G since PR1.2 (at the very least). Skype and Gtalk.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I don't really complain because I got it used, but I do think people who got it at top dollar when it was fresh do have a right to not be happy.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I bought my E71 for much less price and had the update for FREE voice turn by turn navigation

I am and everybody i know are so wealthy to make those video calls without using third party application like Skype and Gtalk it is my right to ask for such option specially when you find your handset doing much more sophosticated things and lack a basic?
for me it is like someone type so fast on a keyboard and he cannot write a word with a pen?!

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

what is so difficult for you people to understand about all this and why is it such a feggin argument???!!!

I think one can easily expect that a phone so capable should be preloaded with turn by turn gps. nokia is giving it away for its lesser phones so why is it so unreasonable to expect that we would at least have it on the n900? get a hold of yourself man!

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Please be exact here. Skype and Google supporting video transmission is not "3G video calling". You can't dial somebody's regular cell phone number and select "video call" with that.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

I want a pocket computer, N900 at $500 -- sounds pretty good to me, since it comes with cell phone, gps, webcam module and full multitasking. Are there any device made in 2009 that can do it well?

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Well Personally, I feel PR 1.2 and PR 1.3 have their own pros and cons. I have noticed that PR 1.3 reproduced a problem I had in PR 1.1.1 like the chirping sounds when a call comes (its scary sometimes makin u feel like oh my answer fast or the speakers will tear up. lol Let me know if this is just me or anyone else facin this issue). The positive side is the RAM Management. PR 1.2 used to hog up the RAM and I needed constant 800 MHz overclockin to keep the phone stable but PR 1.3, without even overclockin, the phone is too smooth.

Overall, I have no complains however. N900 being open source and having so much potential already makes it the best possible phone for me... (Nokia however needs to be a lil more customer oriented... LoL)

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

the point is it is 2010 and devices from 2009 from other companies are still getting robust advancements in terms of updates/functionality. so if you think of the n900 as the baby and nokia as the parents, the parents have not been nearly as good to their baby as other parents have been to theirs.

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk#t=1m22s

Do not expect anything. Did I expect or got to my windows OS anything besides security and bug fixes after i bought it? No. Why on earth I would spend money to something that is not guaranteed? Because I feel lucky? *Maniacal laugh*

Get hold of yourself man!

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Lol, love the video linked :)

Re: PR 1.3 LITTLE changes with HUGE DISAPPOINT!!!
 

Very nice and funny although i find it irrelevant, but thanks to make us laugh, it is really rare nowadays

You accept, i Expect, it is personal difference that make some people stay still and others improve, and take over the market.

I am a doctor am no developer and also am not a marketing man, but i am sure that there is somewhere in those huge books teaching advanced marketing, part that is talking about meeting your clients expectations, what they need and what they want to have.
let me take the navigation as an example, if Nokia said it frankly that this N900 is impossible to have navigation on, i would shut up and know that this is technical issue that am no expert in.
but,
when Sygic can develop it and it is working (not free), AND Nokia provide for less advanced, cheaper, and non competing devices!!
excuse me
i find this strange