Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

accurate assessment and sadly true of many OSS developments. (only need to look at sourceforge).
Nokia is clearly still committed to Meego both in-house and at the core level, however, given that Elop has axed the R&D budget to pay for WP licensing, I'm concerned that this dipping in the research bucket will become a trend every time Elop needs more cash to prop up his "plans"

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I think the concept and value of ecosystem is not understood - at all around here. Android is open source, everyone can slam Android onto their phone/tablet, but the Google ecosystem is tightly controlled by Google. MeeGo is only a (hardly) working OS, but there is no MeeGo ecosystem. For that reason alone MeeGo is dead for Nokia.

WP is an OS and Nokia produces the hardware. This will be a great system, but the really big thing is the ecosystem. Next year Nokia will start selling tablets and other mobile devices running Windows 8, they will be tied in to the same ecosystem, the same ecosystem as billions of PCs.

I see a great future for this ecosystem :)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Regurgitating yesterday's AAS podcast are we? If people could start thinking for themselves for a change, they would realise that this 'ecosystem' lark is simply a euphemism for locking consumers in to proprietary solutions. Nothing new here. Marketing guys and CEOs have been selling us snake oil for decades.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

:D Over at AAS at least some people are thinking instead of crying like babies day after day after day after day because Elop has dropped their little toy.

Of course proprietary ecosystems will lock consumers into proprietary solutions, that goes without saying. But MS/Nokia will be much more open than Apple and much less intrusive to your privacy than Google. Besides, both Nokia and MS earns heaps of money from the other ecosystems.

Trust me, Nokia/MS will be great :D The news today regarding patents removed every little bit of doubt. There is no way Nokia/MS will fail.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Praise Elop, god's only son and prophet of ze ecosystem. 72 virgins in paradise if you believe in ze ecosystem.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

MS will be dead in 2014:
http://madhatter.ca/2011/02/17/micro...arter-numbers/
and
http://www.goodbyemicrosoft.net/news.php?item.601.3
not to forget:
http://madhatter.ca/2011/03/04/micro...h-tablet-wars/
and
http://madhatter.ca/2011/03/06/micro...ars-part-deux/

RIP. I'm not going to miss you

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Does this site have Moderators? If so how has this thread gotten this far?

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Because the question in the thread's title has been answered long ago.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Please, don't let your hatred of Linux and MeeGo lead you into blatant lies. MeeGo is much improved beyond the state it was in a year ago (it didn't even have a GUI in June of 2010.) Not bad considering that its requirements do outstrip (slightly) the capabilities of the N900.

No, it would take time and they knew it, so they went on developing Harmattan and worked to have the same APIs across both platforms, with the goal of migrating off the Maemo base and on to the MeeGo base down the line. Of course, internal bureaucracy and Elop's plans tossed it all out the window.

Here's the cold hard truth about the modern concept of a "software ecosystem": It's not about providing for your users, it's about locking them into your platform and making it as hard as possible to get away. Long ago, this would have been considered tying, and lead to corporate breakups.

No it's not. Google barely applies controls even to the official software channels and it's making them look bad.

Nokia, before Harmattan was thrown under a bus, was ready to develop that "ecosystem."

Being trapped in Microsoft's world isn't my idea of fun, especially since Microsoft wants the same level of control over these devices that Apple has over the iPhone. That's one hell of a step down from the N900, which gave me total control. But hey, it's all about catering to the lowest common denominator and corporate control these days, not about the end user and empowering them.

Which is bad in every way, shape and form. But hey, let's go cheering it on while the tech market is carved up into a slew of incompatible, proprietary platforms that make it impossible to get anything done (for the sake of corporate profits.)

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Great, yes, if you like to be told what to do and how to do it.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Ericsson is the most lucid of ya all on this board. Pessimism gets you nowhere. Elop has done what they hired him to do, and he will do a good job to stem the destruction.

The minority of geeks here need to understand that products are directed towards MAJORITY, not MINORITY of consumers. You should be lucky for NOKIA to support this forum and dish out few geek devices here and there. No other company does it.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

what rules have you seen violated?

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Bit off-topic, but I just read news article, which says that Intel is setting up two R&D centers in Finland (Helsinki and Tampere) and is looking to hire Meego people that Elop is booting out of Nokia. According to the article, even some people who still have jobs at Nokia are interviewing for the jobs.

So, Nokia might be abandoning Meego, but at least Intel is still investing.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I'm confused. As someone who enjoys Maemo, MeeGo, my N900, and the concept of open source (rather, Free) software how am I supposed to be optimistic about Nokia and Microsoft releasing WP7 devices?

You can target the majority while still catering to the minority. But currently that minority is regarded with hostility by most mobile device and platform vendors. This is simply an increase in that hostiliy.

And I imagine that in short order, no one will.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Once I started a thread about a Nokia article that was basically a cut and paste from AP news, that I had read 10 minutes earlier. All new info, ten minutes old, and a " moderator" here mergred my thread with a 3 month old thread because it talked about the same issues...

The leadership of NOKIA for good or bad have taken this "approach" with rolling out meego on their hardware. The Original Posters intent of this thread has been asked and answered. By keeping this thing alive all it does is start rants and raves pro or con against Nokia, and 4 threads laters the same cast of characters will argue about something else. It's a waste of bandwidth and memory, and a REAL MODERATOR would have closed this thread long ago. These types of threads take away what this board should really be about which is supporting the Maemo/meego/etc. community not about random debates that no one ever wins or loses.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

In my opinion, what Apple did was raise the bar for User Experience on smart, mobile devices. Please bear in mind, that I'm not a fan of Apple nor do I own any of their products. However, I will give them credit where it's due.

As far as the Android user experience goes, I haven't really checked it out, because, as an ex-developer, the idea of running a Java VM on top of the Core OS just annoys me. Therefore, for my own personal use, Android gets demised right away.

I think Elop & the rest of Nokia executive team took a good, hard look at the current state of MeeGo and decided that it couldn't deliver a user experience that was as good as iOS/Android, in time to prevent them from losing a very significant portion of the market to Apple and Google.

The Taiwanese and Korean manufacturers are just churning out very impressive Android devices, with a new one being announced almost daily, it seems. And, there are more and more 3rd party apps and addons for iOS devices being pushed to market, daily as well.

A lumbering, old giant like Nokia just couldn't keep up if it had stayed on it's present course with Symbian.

While MS may not be the most exciting of partners, what I've seen of WP7-Mango is *very* impressive.

Perhaps, one day. MeeGo will impress me as well with it's User Experience. However, from what I've seen so far, it's not there, yet!

http://unplugged.rcrwireless.com/ind...wn-from-nokia/

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

http://unplugged.rcrwireless.com/ind...er-in-finland/

;)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I don't think anyone can argue that. Apple is in their current position for a number of reasons, and good design and execution are one of them. They may not be the first out of the gate, or original, but they do it better than anyone else and that's how they succeed.

It actually says nothing about MeeGo (which is all about infrastructure, not the user experience) and more about Nokia being unable to deliver. That's the point of MeeGo, to give companies (and open source communities) a vendor-independent, fully open source base from which they can create their own User Experience.

Of course, Harmattan's could be awesome and Nokia could have jumped the gun. But I suspect the path was decided once Elop came on board.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

There is a problem with that though: What is the ecosystem? It is easy to say that MeeGo apps should run on any MeeGo OS, no matter what the UI layer is. But in practice, that just won't work. If the UI layer is too different, apps have to be tweaked towards the specific product, and can't just be released for "MeeGo".

It is still not clear to me at all how this problem is going to be solved. You want to be able to say "this is a FOO phone and you can run FOO apps on it" (and expect a consistent, competitive user experience). MeeGo, the way it is structured and presented now, does not really provide this kind of ecosystem.

The next "MeeGo" device is going to be an awesome product. But I am just not sure what exactly the value and purpose of "MeeGo" is in the process.

At least with Maemo, we had a clear identity. Everything since then is almost a blur to me, and I think it's exactly this lack of clarity which was causing Nokia a lot of harm, and which Elop has been set out to eliminate. From what I have seen and heard so far I consider him a smart, straight-forward person, and I'm going to hold off judgement on his handling of the MeeGo situation until I see how exactly it will play out (which will become much clearer in the coming weeks).

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

There is a problem with that though: What is the ecosystem? It is easy to say that MeeGo apps should run on any MeeGo OS, no matter what the UI layer is. But in practice, that just won't work.

Yes, it will work.

It's actually quite trivial from a technical standpoint. The reason it hasn't been done before is because vendors want to lock you into their ******** 'ecosystems'.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

That doesn't answer my question, though.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Read the second part...

and before you say that doesn't answer your question let me answer your question with a question..:p

The OP's question has already been answered, and this thread has "de-volved" into ranting nonsense. What is the purpose of this threadf?!

BTW: You can always merge it with the 6 month old threads that say where is Meego?:cool:

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Ecosystems, aka exclusive platforms intended for lock in, are the responsibility of whatever vendor uses MeeGo.

Be specific. Vagaries like "UI layer" don't contribute to the discussion.

MeeGo is intended to make it possible to move software between devices with a minimum of difficulty, and supply a consistent API and allow the developer to expect certain capabilities of compliant devices.

MeeGo's purpose is one step above Linaro. Linaro standardizes compilers and architectures, MeeGo standardizes APIs and interfaces.

Maemo was never clear. It was always muddled in internal Nokia politics, unusable except by Nokia due to all the chunks for which no source was available. Elop, well, I have my suspicions. Suffice it to say, Symbian and the internal bureaucracy were a far greater source of harm than MeeGo ever was.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

As I see it ecosystems exist in the real along with businesses, innovation and other commercial activities. MeeGo exists in an utopian and imaginary world where food on the table comes falling from heaven.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Your comments like "REAL MODERATOR" are insulting and unnecessary so at first I chose to ignore that part.

We are not very controlling here. Keeping a thread on topic is certainly a goal, but we try to be tolerant and let threads "breathe" as well. "Is MeeGo Dead for Nokia" is a very broad question and while some dialog has deviated I don't see a problem. Then again, I don't moderate this section but it seems whoever does either agrees with me or there have not been any actionable reports.

Bottom line, if you're looking for restrictive, overbearing, anal-retentive moderation, this is not the place. Some posters will disagree but I think the overall actions by moderators back me up on that.

Now back to our irregularly-scheduled on-again-off-again topical rants...

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

From a designer's point of view, no it won't work. UI differences have to be taken into account or you set yourself up for a big failure and disappointed users. Even Android is struggling with that, and it's fragmentation is minimal to what we are talking about here.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I consider this to be on-topic. A word, Tex?

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

You state this as if it's a poorly understood problem. The nice thing is that with QML, it's not nearly that hard to create UIs for smartphones, tablets, and netbooks, then include all of them in one application. It's not a hard or intractable problem. With good tools it's nowhere near that difficult.

Android has a problem in that it was never designed for tablets, and is being migrated that way.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

wnarone, that makes sense, but only if you don't call the actual OS MeeGo. This is not how it's done right now, so I maintain that it hasn't been completely thought through. This is not unsolvable, but will require some vision and possibly more difficult decisions. Something I would have wished the previous administration had taken care of long ago.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I'm not talking about the differences between phones and netbooks though, but between different phone UI's. It has to be made clear wether an application is designed for the user's particular instance of meego for handsets to avoid disappointment. That is quite possible of course, but also runs the risk of increased fragmentation.

This could only be avoided, if all implementors of a neego handset UX would stick to the same UI paradigms, which seems unlikely at this point.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

First: Of all my earlier comment about "REAL MODERATOR(S)" was not specifically targeted at anyone, I was talking about an over all experience at the site vs. other sites.

Second: I am the last person to ever preach for any "Heavy-handed" moderation of personal opinions or views on any topic. I am a firm believer in FREEDOM; except when it harms others. Which again leads me to my point, this isn't a free honest debate of opposing views. This is "Nokia Sucks because"... "No they don't because".... and in the end someone gets frustrated and gives up because the arguement is going in circles.

Lastly: My short time here at the site has been spent, learning, helping, and enjoying the fact that this 24 hour community helps strengthen the value of "EVERYONES" Nokia products. I just don't see the value of repeatedly debating any shortcoming of those products, over, and over, and over again...

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the "lattitude" that threads like this get.

BTW: I wouldn't mind taking you up on your challenge,

A question/Poll to all of us at Maemo.org. Would you like to see more controlling Moderation of the site, or is it fine the way it is?

What do you think?

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

If you want usable results, please post an actual poll in the Community section. I think this little non sequiter has run its course here. ;)

So... is MeeGo Dead for Nokia? :D

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

No......;)

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I disagree. :D

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

I disagree too.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Kno.../1135260596609

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

The real question isn't to know if MeeGo is Dead for Nokia. But if Nokia is Dead For MeeGo.

MeeGo will survive with other manufacturer ... Nokia probably not with MS.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

wtf is it with ppl crying about "ecosystem" = "vendor lock in".....

here is a hint - vendor lock in makes the vendors money...

and what is the aim of a company ?

... and what you expect these entities to be charities ?

At the end of the day - SOMEONE has to pay to build this stuff - and unless YOU are paying it - you have no right to criticize corporate strategy when the chosen strategy is one that is inline with the corporation's goal.

If you are unhappy, buy a dumb phone that has no ecosystem, or build and sell your own Meego phone.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Nope, it's not dead. In fact, even Symbian's not dead. It will bring updates and such for the next two years or so.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Too much asking for some upstream GNU/Linux distro to integrate many of the MeeGo components and library and some company release a SoC complete with drivers?
I will be fine with an Arch For Smartphone or a Debian Mobile. No need of such things as markets or ecosystem. I have a huge repository and i'm fine with it.

Speaking about the drivers: supposing some device in the future sports a Mali 400 GPU (like some rumors about the mythic N9), this link will be somewhat useful in a MeeGo-Related fashion?

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

As a paying customer, I am paying for it. It is not the duty of paying customers to concern ourselves with what is best for giant corporations. We don't like vendor lock-in because it is bad for consumers in the long run. Nobody is doubting the benefits for the vendor. It just might be that the interests of the vendor and those of the consumer are not perfectly aligned.

Re: is Meego Dead for Nokia ?
 

Still no MeeGo for n900 users then?
There's a surprise.
Still people saying it's coming?
There's a surprise.
Oh, what about "it's only for developers"?
That's a good one.

Any sign of this new Nokia mobile keyboard-free device running some sort of Franken-Maemo/MeeGo-stein UX yet?

Just installed MeeGo 1.2 on VirtualBox - it runs slower than Debian, Mint, Fedora, XP or Windows 7 running at the same spec. Tried doing the hack for graphics - originally for 1.0 and adapted for 1.1. Doesn't seem to work on 1.2.

But, I am sure I am wrong for saying this.

I see nothing has changed since I was last here. I was given a second-hand e71, I find it quite useful.

I am sure somebody here recommended VirtualBox to me - I would like to thank them, as it is great. I can get rid of those aging dual-boot PC's, and run stuff on the laptop instead (although I will need to keep the one that still has a serial port and XP which is indispensible for firmware updates to celestron & skywatcher telescope mounts)...