Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Is it just me, or does Ericsson seem to be Elop in disguise? :confused::eek: In all his responses he puts emphasis on the word ecosystem, and yet lacks the knowledge of what an ecosystem really is.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I am optimistic. Go join the iphone groupies if so pessimistic here

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

so much for hardware design... dissect a few DeLL laptops and repackage them.
that's promising :rolleyes:

i'm not sure what's more outrageous...
that m@ke$$h!t built the same "game computer" for 7 years without upgrading the GPU or that ppl kept buying it :eek:
what do you think?

then again
very personal question, feel free not to answer...
what on earth are you doing on TMO?!?
desperately waiting for PR 1.4?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

mhuuuuuhhaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Sometimes, yes, but this time? The problem is that Elop's actions and his explanations doesn't make any sense. And even Elop evangelists are unable to dispute that, because after few rounds every discussion ends with remarks about how he surely knows something the rest of world doesn't and how without this key information nobody is able to comprehend his genial strategy.

Because it can't be that he is just another dumb CEO believing in his illusions and that there is no secret plan that will turn bad into good at the last minute.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Still my favorite picture this year:D

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

get two, just to be sure you don't run out of space >¦-)

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Yes.

I think you meant "save". No

Yes.

Yes. Sears.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

you don't seem to be very up to date about Google, are you?
Google earns money with ADS
the more places their ads show, the more money they make...

always have been, always will be...

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

1. Something must be done
2. This is something
3. Therefore it must be done

Clearly. Still don't see what links this prediction with reality, other than Microsoft's wishes/Elop's disruption.

How did any technology company ever get anything done before the word 'ecosystem' appeared on the lips of analysts/CEOs/bloggers?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...d_animated.gif

All glory to the hypnosystem!

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

geneven@rocketmail.com, which is actually Yahoo mail. I had a rocketmail address when it was a company, which was absorbed by Yahoo. But I also have geneven@yahoo.com but rarely use it and geneven@gmail.com and others. Doesn't everyone have a similar plethora of email addresses?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures.
- Daniel Webster

sorry, couldn't help myself ¦-)

EDIT: more seriously...
“Planning without action is a daydream; action without planning is a nightmare.” Japanese proverb.
maybe that summarizes NOKIA's management policies over the last few years as well as for an (un-)foreseeable future...

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

The times were good when we were all asleep and our dreams lacked ecosystems....

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

So not ONLY are you here to see if you can artificially inflate your newly purchased stock despite consumer opinions and impressions, but you're also here to lobby for drug companies by handing out free drugs? You'll go far as long as you don't get caught by regulatory agencies. You'll go far, alright.

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNODROID!!!
I really should do up an Android version of the hypnotoad for an avatar. :)

Actually, yes. I do too--but I don't think much of them anymore... to the point where I've forgotten about them completely until I'm reminded that there ARE still addresses of mine out there on those services. Hell... I still have an ix.netcom.com address from 1993 that I STILL use more than those. :)

Well, that pretty much sums up the move to elect Elop as the new CEO.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Elop, Elop, Elop. Is it really so difficult to get into your head that Mr Elop is not running Nokia all by himself. He was hired for a reason, he was hired to do a job that had already started at board level long before he entered his foot into Nokia.

You are acting like small children. Don't you have any idea at all how a company is run? If the MS deal was against the will of the board, Elop would have been fired at the very second the board knew about it.

Elop is no wizard or King, he is a chief executive officer, the captain to navigate and administer the ship in the direction set by the board. He has several teams around him with experts on all businesses that Nokia is doing.

But no, Elop entered Nokia, looked around and thought - Me evil emperor, me give all this to Microsoft, me be rich - muuhhaaa

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Disagree. But I'm a developer... I got targets.

Erm... where did I contradict this? Because as it stands, WP7 is local to me, foreign to damn near everybody else.

Never said otherwise. But as it stands, the declines for both Nokia and Microsoft have been almost 5 years and 10 years respectively. That's just down.

They say they are... but losing share to the point where they're back to numbers they've not seen since 1998 or so, that's not good.

With Symbian being dropped, the funding for MeeGo dropping... the push for WP7 increasing and it's not exactly a blockbuster seller itself... I'm not seeing where this is a multiple horse bet. I see the eggs being placed all in one basket. Not good.

Quite incorrect. In fact, I'd say downright delusional. Handheld MID's were the precursors to the new tablets - iPad, Honeycomb, et al. They could have set the pace for internet tablets because they were first. They did not capitalize. In fact, they're no longer a player in the field whereas they were the only ones. And if they come out with a tablet now, it will not sell. Period.

They missed out.

Then innovate more. Or sell more. Losing share constantly since 2007 is not how a business stays afloat.

Never said otherwise. But constant innovation would have pushed aside these things. Not the case in Nokia's choices. They didn't see the trends, they didn't create the trends, instead... they sat on top of some seriously innovative stuff and didn't market, didn't push it, didn't take advantage of it. Case in point... Maemo. Harmattan was probably possible years ago, but Nokia had to innovate under pressure to get to where it's been done now. Proper funding, some serious talent could have done that in one form or another a couple of years ago and we'd be dealing with a MeeGo/Maemo device that has an ecosystem for the lemmings, repositories for the geeks.

Didn't happen.

US Business != Global Business. Zune Marketplace isn't even in all of the areas that Nokia sells their stuff. How will they get updates? Do not confuse the XBOX LIVE network with what WP7 needs for updates. Not the same.

I have a WP7 phone. It updates via Zune. Thank goodness I'm in the US. Otherwise, I'd be almost SOL.

Apple is a better marketer than most. They haven't pushed out crap that won't sell since Lisa and the Pippin. Now? They try to create a market for their stuff by using incredible marketing. Steve Jobs is the modern day PT Barnum. Learn from him.

They broke the mold... didn't want old *** Symbian, didn't want to use iOS, didn't want to be a slave to anybody. Made their own ecosystem, made a way to push their services to the end user on their phone(s), gave people access to their Gmail accounts and ultimately you have an OS that does: services, e-mail, music, browsing, searching and plays ads that are all culled from the aforementioned usage of services, music, e-mail and searches.

Pretty damn genius. Too bad Nokia didn't do that... not in the same way. They're not Google.

This kind of thought is why Nokia is ****ing up. They had everything to lose, but didn't keep on a path where they were ahead of folks. The world caught up, Nokia just sat back, pointed at how "We have the largest share!" and didn't really do crap but release crap phone after crap phone while touting them to be "high profile phones" whereas they were getting passed by feature phones that were now being labeled as smart phones... and guess what? People bought into that.

And how did Nokia continue to respond? By saying nothing at all.

Yeah... real damn smart.

Funny thing about disruptions. As much as you never know when the next one is coming about... you have to be fast enough to turn with the stream/tide/rush/whatever and innovate within that madness.

Google did. Start to look for other heroes in these ever-changing times. Nokia had an ace... waited to late to play it. It's a new game now, those cards are no longer useful. Start again, be more focused or get the hell out of the way.

Bingo. Problem is... they are already making the same wrong *** decisions. Kill something that's closer to being released than your intended product? WP7 ain't ready for Europe. MeeGo is. Release it, bolster its release with support, make it Plan B when Plan A (WP7) is ready. Until then, you've announced and (yet again) released absolutely nothing.

That's typical Nokia. That **** doesn't play now. Announce, ship quickly, update and give people the perception that they'll be supported, innovate and have your new stuff in the wings... force the consumers to update once they feel as if they need those new things. Not when Nokia drops support, makes you feel like you've been forgotten and you're ready to go up in arms against anything/anybody Nokia connected.

Nokia needs Neo-Marketing 101. They're too damn old fashioned, it doesn't work any more.

The fact that you think Nokia isn't staring corporate death right now is pretty damn amazing.

And guess what? Some folks believe that Microsoft is not the people they needed to form any alliance with to create a secure future and rebuild down this ever-weakening path. And I say this as a Microsoft stock owner, former MCSE/MCDBA - WP7 isn't ready for primetime. I say that as a current WP7 phone owner.

It's ready for the US. It's ready for Canada. Europeans will piss all over the WP7 when it comes out. Why? It's so damn limiting and doesn't fit their concept of how they should use a phone. Worse in Asia. They might burn WP7 phones in effigy there.

Argue what you want... what Elop is doing is going too deeply down a path of only one option for a company that needs a wider range of options to fit their typically wide portfolio. And with what I said earlier, WP7 doesn't do that. It doesn't cover the S40 level and it doesn't make the MeeGo/Maemo folks happy. More options better exist very damn soon.

I'm loving my 4.3 inch screen on my HTC HD7S. Microsoft evil? Never said it. Elop evil? Never said it.

I don't see why evil pops out of people's mouth so damn easily. Evil is relative to good... so who's good?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

GNU/Linux
the freedom to download and install whatever app you (dis-)like, just to try it out, brick your... N900 and flash it back right away :D
:cool:

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Whatever app? I can name some serious holes in that logic.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

hey, you the developer, right?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Consumer opinions and expressions are clear, the stock is going up buddy and even your negativism aint gonna stop it.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

again, the logic of the stock markets is a little more complicated then that.
what the increase of the NOK shares most likely reflects now is the conviction of brokers that NOKIA is going to be bought up, thus a very $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ company is going to offer lot's and lot's of bucks for 'em
correction: more bucks then what they are worth right now
neither of which is much, right?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I'm a developer... and not a good one at that.

So yeah... not all apps are in Linux. Especially for this Adobe Flex/Flash dev. Can't see my stuff on the N900. No 10.3 plugin. Nor Unity 3D. Nor quite a few other things that I tinker with all day.

I need those things. That's why I have OS X. And Windows. And Linux - N900 can admin the ever-living hell out of my Linux servers. But content from the other two? Not so well.

Linux doesn't do everything. Not yet. But that's because my needs are way different than just an average Linux server admin. I develop content too. And websites. And games.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

ELOP?

Here you go right here

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/gbbaker/elop.png

Just kidding this is Will Farell making a joke in public with another comedian.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

i'll pick up on Mikecomputing's :rolleyes: about 20'000 apps;
or 100'000 iApps?
i'm happy w/ Skype, MSN, Yahoo! Msg.er & gchat and getting notified when i get an e-mail (@hotmail.com, @yahoo.com or @gmail.com)
when travelling, i like to be able to keep up to date with the public transport trip planning site which, thankfully, is very basic HTML and allows me to check for connections on the fly or simply keep track of arrival & departure times & tracks or line nbr.s
but watching Flash... why would you wanna do that "on the move"?

o, right... a lot of sites have flash nowadays, right?
there is an AdBlock Plus version available for mobile FF, right >?-)

yes, i guess if you have subscribed to the mercantilization of the WWW,, flash is required, indeed.
does it add useful information? anything plain dumb HTML can't provide? leave alone on the 800x480 pixel display...

just ranting, i guess :|

last time i synchronized the two N900s, i had 107 apps installed.
a couple more, now, i guess
been tweaking some, lately :p
who has time for 20'000, leave along 100'000 apps?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Keep pumping that stock! You'll be rich like the Lehman Brothers in NO time!

Nope. Not evil. Uncomfortably flamboyant? Definitely.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0TQAhoGxxU.../s400/elop.jpg


Dude. Not cool. No need to speak in racist stereotypes to make your point.

SPECULATION CHA-CHA-CHA! :)

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Close. I'm desperately waiting for my n950 dev kit; it should get here by Monday, or maybe even this Saturday if I'm lucky. But I think you're on to something, for some of us:

PR 1.4 == Meego 1.2 Harmattan

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

You should be banished to a purely console text existence and browsing websites with LYNX (not even links!) for the rest of your days for your insubordination! :)

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

i'm afraid you got the Maemo release cycle wrong
MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan is N900's HE

ps: let us know about the N950... does the screen turn landscape when you slide out the kbd, or do you have to use it vertically?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

When talking about Elop there are other changes apart from the move to WP. I have never seen so aggressive nokia marketing as now. They are pushing their symbian devices very hard (billboards, internet ads etc). I witnessed a nokia salesperson working full time in a large retailer pretending to be the retailer's employee (given away by his t-shirt which had the N8 slogan, but not the nokia logo) trying for some 20 minutes to convince one customer to buy the N8 over the iPhone (he also said that N8 is GHz and E7 is dual-core haha). They also have committed to years of updates for their devices (not staying back to the previous FP) and showing off new and desirable devices E7, X7 etc for the first time after the N95.

I also hate the WP7 move, and I believe that it is killing nokia. Maybe Elop is a trojan horse, BUT the effectiveness in the process of selling phones since his arrival seems to have increased tremendously.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

gimme gimme gimme... a man after midnight?
NO!
A KEYBOARD ¦-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

when you are slashing your prices / margins, marketing is no art.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I watched a video where Elop presented the new next big thing ( a windows OS ruining in an N9 enclosure) he presented it as if it was something so great it must remain top secret. But to my BS meter it looked a more akin to a desperate hooker showing her koek in the hope you'll try it.

The fact that the top secret video was published by Nokia to bring some of that N9 thunder over to Windows, suggesting that the only nice thing about the N9 was the enclosure, and to suggest it was cool because it ran Windows, left only the after taste of trojan horse in my mouth.

sorry Nokia, you invested wisely in the past, sorry to see you running scared after the iPhone, but you were on the right path to an open and world dominating brand. In the words of my favourite politician you should "stayed the course". your new partnership is the old school has been business model of the tech boom, you need a business model for sustainable growth now. From my point of view you partnered with a T-Rex, at a time when mammals are about to bosom.

good luck. and thanks for the fun times with my n800 and n900, sad to see it this way, but the mammals win in the end, and the big powerful giants die out.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Same as Maemo 5: It's up to the application developer. There's a consolidation of some n950 videos here:

http://www.fonearena.com/blog/40638/...-hands-on.html

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

The tale of the ecosystems:

In the pre ecosystem era Nokia had all smartphones worth having. They also had all dumbphones worth having. If fact Nokia ruled the entire globe with high quality devices that were used to connect people, and life was good. Well, almost the entire globe. A backwater place called North America where evil operators ruled by enslaving both phone companies and end users, proved to be too evil for the freedom loving Nokia to thrive. The poor people there had to live with ancient devices with antennas called Motorola and something called Blackberry, a kind of typewriter technology.

Then a fruit, an apple, decided to make something new and fresh for the poor enslaved people. But it also took a bold rebellish step against the major operators, making a cool device with a SIM card using GSM technology that would enable the device to run on operators world wide. The new device was loved from day one, even though it was not very capable, and half of the technologies was stolen from Nokia. Although not intended as a main feature, the device had the ability to easily purchase, download and install small programs called apps through iTunes, a closed system used on iPods for music. This ability, music and apps, became extremely popular and very soon became the number one selling point. When the device came in its second generation, the technology was up to a level so it could be sold world wide. Because it was based on GSM, the apple only needed to ramp up the production without changing anything. The device became an instant hit everywhere it was sold, particularly due to apps and music, but also because it was new and different and fun and easy to use.

A sneaky company called Google had secretly studied all this by gathering information with its internet based sneaky-ware technology. They understood that neither hardware or software alone was enough. The key was to have access to the platform, the system where all these transactions took place, where the apps lived, where the music was played, where the searches were done. This platform had to be apple like, fun and easy, and packed with in-house made sneaky-ware services like email, search and other stuff. They thought world wide from the start, and soon became an even greater success than the apple because almost all phone manufacturers began making devices for this sneaky company, cutting prices to compete with each other.

Poor Nokia had no idea what to do, it had no idea what was going on, it was completely lost. The world had suddenly disrupted somehow, it had changed entirely. It did all kinds of strange things, it bought large software companies, open sourced them, closed sourced them again, and ended up giving them away for free including everyone working there. It made devices no one wanted, it made iTune-like systems that no one liked. The end was near. Then another old, and a bit sedate company, had made an OS that was very cool, but something was lacking, it didn't sell. Somehow the world had disrupted on that company as well. The two grumpy old farts met, talked and exchanged ideas, and suddenly got it. At last they understood what the sneake-company had understood years ago. It has to be easy, cool and fun, but most important of all, the easy cool and fun stuff have to be interconnected into a system managed by us. Since Nokia had no idea how to make good software and the sedate one had no idea how to make good hardware, they agreed to cooperate. We have to deliver a full package similar to the apple, or we will simply become servants of the sneaky-company. By doing this we will also free lots of poor souls from the slimy tentacles of the sneaky-company and the voodoo-spells of the apple. At least we will give them a choice.

And that's it. Without an ecosystem you are nothing but an OEM, a servant for the sneaky-company, doomed to do nothing but slash prices for the rest of time. The Nokia board want Nokia to be much more than a servant, and that's why the ecosystem is what it's all about.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

My fault. I accidentally forgot it was reserved exclusively for the hate Elop fest participants.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Dude, are you in any relation to Elop?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Dude. All Canadians start their sentences with "me" and end with "eh". Sheesh.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Take off, you hoser! ;)

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Everyone know it's true, but where is the Nokia's owner?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

What in the name of grammar are you talking about?