Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I think we'll have to see untill 2Q 2012 if WP7 is a fail or a win. My bet is going day by day towards win. All the major tech blogs gave Mango really good reviews. Mindshare is really soon in the level of good sales push. Christmas sales are going to be crucial for Elop and Ballmer.

I just don't know where Meltemi fits in Nokia's strategy. I think it would be more logical to put in the ultra high-end of phone/something totally new in mobile space. 100-200 € price range just feels somehow so wrong.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Devices that used to run Symbian.


My guess is that Meltemi will be very similar to Android in how it uses Linux kernel - just as an enablement layer to glue Qt/QML on a hardware. Not a "real" Linux distribution you excite of.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I have same kind of hunch but that would mean competing with WP7?

Is it a backup plan which could be pushed to lower range if needed (WP7 succeeds or not)?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

For Nokia it was always S40 for featurephones and S60 for smartphones.
Now Meltemi for featurephones and WP for smartphones?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Which is of course a stupid dinstinction. They can't say its for smartphones because that would "conflict" with their wp7 strategy in the eyes of industry analysists. Nokia news today are being filtered by microsofts ministry of truth.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

how about the blogs at:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com

and:

http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devel...ping/#!Android

and:

http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Man, i could SWEAR (and I often do swear! hehe) that we were told as soon as Windows Phone 7 was releases, that we should give it a few months to a year to prove itself before we can truly call it a failure.

It's been months now--and nearly a year. Can we finally just admit it yet?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

There. fixed that for you

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

A few more weeks and WP is one year old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows...aunch_partners

And btw, MS is still losing marketshare in smartphones month after month.

Edit: I meant that devices have been for sale for a year.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Doesn't matter, still way too early in the mobile battle. MS has more cards to play, a good long-range strategy and LOTSA money to spend. They are determined, well financed bulldogs. It will be at least 2 years after Windows 8 is released before remotely meaningful conclusions can be made regarding the eventual success or failure of WinPhone. Check back in 4-5 years.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I did. After my HTC Touch Diamond Debacle, i waited 4-5 years and had the opportunity to play with WP7
Yep. MS in the handset arena still sux ballz.
Ever heard the syaing "you can't make strawberry jam out of cowsh*t"?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

The problem is... EVERYBODY ELSE also have more cards to play, a BETTER long-range strategy and there are now competitors with MORE money to spend on their concentrated efforts than Microsoft does. They are also determined, well financed bulldogs. Windows 8 hasn't even been released yet--so it doesn't even make sense to bring that into this conversation without ALSO pointing out that Apple, Google, Samsung, HTC and everybody else have upcoming major releases that will already be far ahead of Windows 8 when it finally manages to hobble its way out into what already appears to be a hopeful but skeptical reception.

Sure, we'll check back in 4-5 years, but we're already looking back on the past 10 years. It hasn't been a successful decade for Microsoft's mobile division. It hasn't even been particularly successful for their DESKTOP operating systems--people aren't even interested in replacing Windows XP anymore and the new Windows OS's aren't moving hardware the way they used to.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

The game will change radically after Win8 is released and MS uses literally billions of desktops as leverage into the mobile arena.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

But wasn't Windows Phone 7 supposed to be a radical "game changer" too?

To quote someone else on Google+ on this subject:
"Yes, WP7 is a failure. When a company the size of MS launches a device and it struggles to break a single percent of the market despite having the weight of industry leading companies like Samsung and HTC for over a year, it's a failure..."

The problem for Microsoft is PRECISELY that the game has changed... several times.. and EACH TIME they never seem to be successfully able to entice customers to their platform in the face of better supported, better managed, more productive and far more attractive competition. MS couldn't beat Palm, Symbian, iPhone or even Android in its infancy when MS was STILL faring poorer--it has even less hope today. Windows 8 is likely to be no more a game changer than Windows 7 was--especially when there are so many other far more successful game changers already out there coming down the pipe to compete with it.

Edit: You know, I forgot to address your point about how it's still too early in the mobile game to declare them a lost cause: How long has Microsoft been trying to put out a tablet? So this begs the question: How much of a head-start did they need to continue to lose the mobile computing competition to these upstarts that suddenly came along and sold HUGE numbers in short time?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

MS has a long history of "wait until the update/next version" as a means of blowing off genuine concerns about failing to provide even basic functionality that is expected by consumers and already provided by the competition.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

They were also used to being able to use NDA's, legal loopholes and creative monopolistic practices to make SURE they were the only realistic option for most people. In this whole new form factor... the true "game changer" here is that Microsoft doesn't automatically come installed on everything and people have a choices across similar hardware with differing operating systems. If the PC business had been this mixed and varied, I sincerely doubt that Microsoft would have been as dominant as they ended up for so long.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

You're ignoring key differences in how MS desktop and mobile products have been marketed (both in the past and present) and how they will be marketed in the future.

Til now, they have been stand-alone products. WinCE/WP7 had little in common with Win desktop - not the OS, nor could software crossover.

With Win8 that changes. There will be an app store common to mobile and desktop systems. One-stop shopping for all MS users on all MS systems. As billions of MS desktops update to Win8 and newer, this will create a huge advantage Linux, Android and even Apple will not be able to match. Even if most ordinary users could be convinced to switch OS, business lock-in to MS systems guarantee MS a huge market share (and income) for many years to come.
Not to mention the effect that unification of mobile and desktop systems will have on developers...

M$ is far from done. I just hope I'm 100% wrong.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Here's the thing... http://www.macworld.com/article/1602...ails_ipad.html

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

@ Crashdamage
I think you may have been drawn in to the MS marketing hype (a bit like some people here have with Nokia's "next billion").
Web, mail, SNS, content sharing, location based services and games, pretty much sums up the mobile handset market and others are doing it better now. Moreover, these are all OS independant and don't need to integrate with a MS "mothership" sitting at home on my desktop/coffeetable.
I guess i'm not worried because I'm "locked" in to the GPL and the last time i checked, that hadn;t cost me anything....

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

@danramos: There's some merit to the the points made in that article. That's why it remains to be seen how this will shake out. But it's written by an Apple fanboi and might have his head in the sand.

@onethreealpha: You're still assuming mobile systems will remain separate from desktops. I believe mobile and static (desktop) systems will merge until there is little difference.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Sometimes a slip is just a slip...

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

No, not at all. i just recognise that i have a need for both a mobile AND desktop/laptop device, and that whilst there are similarities in what i do with both, they can be mutually exclusive without inhibiting my lifestyle.

Don't get me wrong. From pure market penetration (on the desktop front), MS are in a unique position to capture (or should i say enhance) the convergence of mobile and desktop user experiences, but for most existing devices, connectivity is only a download away, and applications like Samsung's Kies Air, make that integration even easier, as all you need is wifi and a web browser.
In many ways, most mobile hardware vendors have actually managed to get the jump on MS by riding on their back, and the problem for MS is that these companies, with knowledge, experience and existing market share, won't be standing still.
this is a part of MS's problem, they assume a level of success in the future, based on what their competition is doing now.

edit: cool. just hit 300 posts. now I can start thread spamming with tags......

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY62QByUYJQ :)

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I would like to take this discussion of mobile and static systems farther but this is getting pretty far off topic for this thread. Probably more appropiate to continue here...
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76806
...or someplace else if anyone knows of a better thread.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Anywhere but that particular thread is fine. Thanks.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

are you serious?!?
nokias "next billion" is totally underhyped if you know even a fraction about developing countries and what cellphones mean to them....

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

My thought on the whole Meltemi thing is the following:

Sum up all the "facts" and rumors:

• new Lightweight Linux with Qt and Swipe to replace S40
• N9 spec-wise being from 2009, every other high-end mobile out there has much higher specs
• Even features from earlier Nokia high-ends, such as FMTX, USB-OTG and the superb N8 camera are missing
• BUT: many social features already included out-of-the-box, without the need to download further apps, so a casual user should be perfectly happy
• The new Qt API mapping tool, which shows you the equivalents of iOS, Android and soon WinPhone API calls in Qt

That leaves us with an easy-to-use, nicely designed and built phone, which appeals to casual users, which don't know anything about rooting, jailbreaking, etc. and also don't want to know about, because they aren't much into mobile technology.

I think, we already should see the N9 not as the last MeeGo phone from Nokia, but very well as the first phone for the next billion.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I doubt it's underhyped. I just think that people just don't know what it will be; thus this discussion.

I personally can't wait to see what comes of it.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

this exactly is the point why you don't understand the potential of developing countries...

do you need sms based services to help you with agriculture?

even when you don't:
http://www.itnewsafrica.com/2009/04/...ets-a-success/

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Who's to say they will buy Nokia devices. There's plenty of cheap Android devices to choose from.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I'm open to suggestions.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

no one. still nokia is the only manufacturer that focuses to the next billion and has a good track record with their life tools (read: they know something about what the "next billion" needs..)

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Kenya, Nigeria snatch Google apps award

The two, David Lemayian of Capefield Ltd and Gerald Kibugi of Elan Telemedia Ltd and a third from Nigeria, Afrinolly, will each receive Sh2.4 million (about US $25,000).

They are expected to use the money to grow their businesses, with mentoring from Google.

The three winning applications, were chosen from hundreds of developers in Sub-Saharan Africa who submitted applications for entertainment, media and games; social networking and communication; and productivity, tools, and geo services.

Capefield’s application, Olalashe (which means ‘brother’ in Maasai) is a geo-alert application that could help one communicate when in distress, through a widget that sends the location of the person with a pre-set message at the push of a button.

Elan Telemedia Ltd’s Shoppers’ Delight allows buyers to compare prices across supermarkets in different areas, unearthing bargains complete with access maps and health information.

http://www.itnewsafrica.com/2011/09/...le-apps-award/

Just making this point:
http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.w...6-28-47-am.png

It would appear that Nokia's competitors understand the potential of developing countries increasingly better worldwide. Nokia is losing relevance and market share day by day.

Tech: Google/Huawei launch $100 Android Phone in Kenya - CP-Africa
Specs: http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_u8150_ideos-3513.php

From http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2182...s-android.htm:

Pricing: Android phones give you more options to fit your budget. When a new iPhone is launched, it is priced exorbitantly and is pretty much out of reach for most consumers. Android phones, on the other hand, are a mixed bag as far as price is concerned. There are so many of them which cover almost every price segment. Many powerful Android smartphones are available for less than $100.


Lately, Android chipset makers are introducing low-cost components to support popular specs like Bluetooth, GPS, dual core ARM processors, 8MP cameras and capacitive displays. The best example is Broadcom. Phones built on their new chipset will retail under $100, possibly even touching the $75 price point. That would allow an "average user" to buy a high-end Android phone. With such a device, the user will be able to subscribe to month-by-month plans offered by carriers or skip the carrier data plans altogether and just rely on cheap voice and messaging plans and connect to the internet using free WiFi hotspots.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Don't forget that Android (2.2 I believe) is powering that $35 India "computer", that Aakash.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

android cannot be stopped at this point regardless of what nokia decides to, android cannot be beaten. They're just too late I believe. Everyone should just strive for 2nd place and maintain as much marketshare as possible. That b**ch won't slow down at all.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Do you work for Nokia Marketing? :D

The estimates of handsets that could POTENTIALLY be brought to these markets are just that, and in no way could anyone suggest that Nokia will have sole dominion over these markets.
Certainly lower end dumb/feature phones will be the core of these regions because the infrastructure isn't there to support anything much beyond GSM/GPRS.

Nokia may have some level of Brand recognition, especially in the African continents, however China has MASSIVE industry/mining investment in these regions (not to mention the wholesale purchase and ownership of agricultural land for food supply - now there's a long term investment!) and if you know anything about how the chinese work, you'll know that their trade delegations will be investing in communications infrastructure and jamming their feet in the doors of anyone high up in government willing to sell/spruke/allow their products and services. enter companies like Huweii, who can mass push (with government support) cheap devices to market in a way that Nokia can't, simply because their high-end handset sales are so poor, they can no longer continue to support the massive subsidies that, until now, Nokia have been using as a means of selling their dumb/feature phones at such a cheap price.
Do you believe that the average farmer in the african or asian continent will care what logo is on their mobile phone?
furthermore, do you think that there aren't similar applications for android devices? and guess who makes most of them? China.
Nokia doesn't have a monopoly on "life-tools" for third world/developing nations, and just because other manufacturers don't talk up their programs, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Don't get me wrong, Meltemi has immense potential (and I hope provides further opportunities for Nokia, if only to keep Qt and "linux" relevent in the mobile handset arena), but it's only potential and doesn't equate to anything beyond hype at this point..... unless you're a "salad tossing" member of the Nokia Marketing Dept.

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

i was wondering, won't it make sense for Nokia to use android kernel and then use QT/QML wrappers for everything else?
Not sure how these things work, but isn't it possible?

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

Danramos we already know that you are a Google fanatic ;)

But those damn graphs may change drastically in other directions in a year...

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

yeah right. You really are naive...

Re: Meltemi - Lightweight Linux based os from Nokia
 

I'm not particularly fanatical about any brand. I said it wayyyyy back when I first started here and I'll say it again--I'll buy the brand that delivers me the device I want and treats me well as a customer. I'm not particularly faithful to any brand and I'm wiling to look at competing brands, but I've been (so far) very happy with my Android/Motorola/Samsung/Verizon experience

For instance, this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8318&page=6 ...where I stated, regarding being unable to find and buy parts to repair my N800 at the time in July of 2008:

I treat Google, Motorola, Samsung and any brand or product with that same level of expectation. If they treat me well, I'll continue to spend my money and explain that experience to others positively. If they don't treat me well, I'll happily jump onto a brand that will and similarly explain that experience to others negatively. I would hope that you would have at least the same sane stance and not come off as one of those legion Apple fanboi types, only for Nokia or any brand.

Companies aren't entitled to loyalty just because you bought one of their products--they must earn loyalty over and over again.

...or they may not. The trending appears to disagree with your suggestion, however, so I have my doubts. Ultimately, we'll just have to see.

Why is he naive, and why do you believe that you are not?